Padding the book

[Guitar rocker]

I know someone that did the same thing....hes a cptn now for a major airline. Everyone knew that he did it. There were others that did the same thing at this commuter that I worked at...and they all got away with it. It wasnt right either. As avbug mentioned, you might not be able to dis-prove his flying time from flight aware. If you know that you can not disprove it as a fact, as someone else said, Id tend to my own garden.

 

[dondk]

everyone knows at least one that has done this, everyone knows a handful of others they suspect. If they can get away with it, oh well, but we also know those who have done it and gotten caught.

It is up to that person if it is worth it. Better yet, if you are going to "pad" you might as well make it worth it. Padding 100 hours is nothing, padding 1,000 or more, well that is a different story. For those that pad 1000 or more, well, they are probably crappy pilots and need to do it!

Would I dime him out? I would give him/her the chance to make it right first, then base your decision on his reaction.

My own personal side to this... 15 years ago I was turned over to the FAA for ONE questionable entry in my logbook. My situation was simple, I did that AOPA mentor pilot thingy and my mentor took me up. No dual, no PIC just a simple flight. My overzealous instructor saw the entry, questioned it, and chose not to discuss it but send me and my pilot mentor to the FAA. In the end, my entry found to be legal, but I made sure that instructor knew it, I let everyone know the type of person he was. That included his boss, who canned him for concerns of judgment. To this day I have not forgotten his name, if you are going to roll over on the person, make sure you got your facts straight. Having it backfire on you may not be worth the price in the end.

 

[DX Rick]

My own personal side to this... 15 years ago I was turned over to the FAA for ONE questionable entry in my logbook. My situation was simple, I did that AOPA mentor pilot thingy and my mentor took me up. No dual, no PIC just a simple flight. My overzealous instructor saw the entry, questioned it, and chose not to discuss it but send me and my pilot mentor to the FAA. In the end, my entry found to be legal, but I made sure that instructor knew it, I let everyone know the type of person he was. That included his boss, who canned him for concerns of judgment. To this day I have not forgotten his name, if you are going to roll over on the person, make sure you got your facts straight. Having it backfire on you may not be worth the price in the end.

Wow, what a prick!
I know a guy who frequents this message board, he went from 300TT to 900TT in the matter of 2-3 weeks. He was trying to get hired from the inside to a regional carrier that is now defunked. Before he could get into a class, he was fired for hacking into the airline Presidents email and spreading his emails across FI.com.
He had a friend in Hawaii who let him use his Aztek for free, and the friend also paid for the gas.
The guy now flies for PCL.

 

[Tired Soul]

Use to know a character who would log sitting in the backseat of a Multi.
Didn't help that the Chief Flight Instructor told his that it was OK to get his 50 ME this way to start instructing on it.
Told him he was an @ss but he was my roomy at the time.
Impossible to prove unless you subpoena the records of the school.

if you are going to roll over on the person, make sure you got your facts straight

Absolutely.

 

[Flightdawg]

Then again there is one of the three famous lies, "The check is in the mail", "I am only stopping for one beer" and "There are no false entries in my logbook". Things such as logging night landing 58 minures after sunset, an instrurtment approach without a view limiting device, or PIC time when acting as a co-captain and the other guy was monitering the autopilot.

There's a difference between a dubious entry such as 58 minutes after sunset and flat out lying about flying at all. Sure, was it 0.3 of IMC or 0.4? We've all had to make that call and many may have given themselves the benefit of the doubt. It's another thing to log instrument time without the benefit of an airplane or from the backseat.

Dropping a dime on this guy is a judgment call. Whether or not it does any good is up to the FAA. They're short-handed and don't have time to investigate pilots unless some hard documentation is provided in the complaint.

Two things to keep in mind are:

1. New hire pilots are usually on probation. A call to the Chief Pilot may cause them to review the pilot with a little more detail than normal.

2. Falsified logbooks, especially those padded as thickly as the one described, have the disadvantage of showing a pilot with flying skills subpar for their amount of logged flight experience. It doesn't take long for an airline instructor, airline captain or aircraft commander to recognize the skill and experience level of the pilot with whom they are paired without taking a peek at their log book.

 

[TMMT]

When I was coming up the 141 school I taught at had about a half dozen instructors who would "share flights" and log them.

Most of those guys/gals were from Europe, India and Turkey, here for the ATP then gone.

I use to do ferry flights for broker and coming off the end of a full day of CFI-ing I wouldn't log them, was paid in cash for the flight, just didn't want the hassle of having to stack my log book up a week out.

 

[on autopilot]

The classic example of this being the idiot who sat at the local airport, writing tail numbers into his logbook.

This was all well and good until he had a checkride with an examiner who wanted to know, in essence, what the hell he (the applicant) was doing flying the examiner's aircraft without permission!

That said, this industry is too full of a$$ holes and pretenders who haven't earned the right to occupy the seat they are sitting in. Blow the whistle and raise the bar if you can indeed support your allegations.

AAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaha(HUGE INHALE)ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!

What did he do when the examiner questioned him on it?

 

[xjcaptain]

Burn him before his passengers burn. Clear enough? The life you save may turn out to be yours or your families.

 

[chqflyer]

I remember a fellow instructor back in college who at the ripe old age of 22 claimed he had over 10000 hours of flight time. The boss knew he was full of fecal matter, but didn't seem too concerned. At least he took himself out in a drunk driving wreck before he ever caused any bent metal in an aircraft.

 

[Tired Soul]

And? Did you roll him under the bus as you should have?

 

[clr4theapch]

Seems to me that this is pretty easy for any POI, or hiring manager to have investigated.. they have a right to copy the log book entires, then call the airports, the Tail number owners records, maintenance and insurance records.. they simply will not add up and the bozo will be instantly thrown out on his ear.. the FAA will pull his tickets...

The airlines will smell right through this with the PRIA background and the standard log book checks.. Any other operators worth their salt will check out new hires and find the same problem or suffer the liability in the end for improper background checks..

In any case, I agree with another member here, we all have a duty to the profession and integrity to everyone that has worked the CFI stuff, worked the hours etc.. if he would lie about something like this, what's next?? JMHO

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Seems to me that this is pretty easy for any POI, or hiring manager to have investigated.. they have a right to copy the log book entires, then call the airports, the Tail number owners records, maintenance and insurance records.. they simply will not add up and the bozo will be instantly thrown out on his ear.. the FAA will pull his tickets...

The airlines will smell right through this with the PRIA background and the standard log book checks.. Any other operators worth their salt will check out new hires and find the same problem or suffer the liability in the end for improper background checks..

In any case, I agree with another member here, we all have a duty to the profession and integrity to everyone that has worked the CFI stuff, worked the hours etc.. if he would lie about something like this, what's next?? JMHO

In a perfect world, perhaps they would actually go through all this trouble to ascertain the accuruacy of his entries. Realistically, if it doesn't pass the smell test, one doesnt get hired. If he's on the line and proficient, then it won't be questioned. A serious accident may not even cover or delve into these prior times (91) outside of 121/135 flying. The difficulties of trying to track down time gained all over the place would be maddeningly tedious and expensive and not very accurate. Places shut down and records are not always kept well. Any certificate action out of it while still having reasonable doubt would make it ripe for a lawsuit.

However, if you know that someone is currently pen-whipping, then there is a greater chance of this being investigated. Strike while hot. Trying to debunk time logged from yrs ago in 91 operations like acquiring the magic multi is just not worth mosts time. Other certifcate action can be taken if someone really screws up without looking too deeply into false entries.

In the end, it's the personality, knowledge, judgment and skill that will betray excessively fraudulant time. There are enough out there who got ahead a little faster due to their false entries, but if all is well in paradise, then no one questions a thing. Think of it as a dirty little secret.

The FAA is well aware that this potential exists, but short of implementing some sort of national (even international as it applies) list of time logging well... its just not possible based uppn the multitude of varied operations which take place all over; both regulated and unregulated.

It's an honor system, boys and girls. If you have any integrity or honor, you wont have to worry.

 

[Chairman]

You would be amazed what people log. I was doing interviews back in the day at one of the Regionals. A guy came in for the interview and while going through his log book I noticed he had logged a handfull of EMB 120 time PIC. I was confused how this happend with out him having a type ratings. He decided to aruge "well I was with an ATP who can legally instruct and since he has a ME rating he can log it pic" I just smiled and then asked him a few systems questions about the EMB. He looked me straight in the eye and told me that he was prepared to talk about the Baron today not the EMB 120.....Log what you want but you might end up blowing and interview over it....

Chairman

 

[TMMT]

What it all boils down to is that a logbook will be no more reliable that a resume, job application and yes even a college transcript. Where even all of those can be manipulated (to a point) they will say what one wants them to say.

Even background investigations including criminal one's are subject to quality issues beyond the control of the one needing or requesting the info, regardless of the fact it comes from a government source.

At the end of the day its the responsibility of the one hiring to fully vet the new hire which in our case should include time in the actual aircraft they intend to fly, one in the same category and class or if possible one they claim to have flown in the past.

In todays litigious society even to call out an actual liar on his or her lies is to walk a financially dangerous minefield. Notwithstanding the facts of the lie it can still cost you financially when you are sued and require the services of an attorney, case prep, time in court and a possible trial. No less than $10,000 for what I just typed out.

And when all is said and done yes you will most likely win, may even be awarded attorneys fees. But now comes the collection of those fees which could spark yet another round of legal squabbles, requiring more money.

And one has to consider a split judgement in a case like this where both parties technically win while losing at the same time. Civil court is literally like playing the lottery and all it would take would be a trial by jury where just one juror was treated in a similar fashion as the one you outed and its all over.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

You should consider notifing the employer of your concerns. Let them validate the records.