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Overweight...Now What???

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your_dreamguy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2002
Posts
246
Hello,

I am putting my bid for Captain upgrade soon. I am starting to think of some scenarios I've seen as an F/O. My question is...the gate agent tells you about estimated pax and bags. It looks as if you'll be overweight. What methodology do you use to squeeze people or bags on board? For example, the last captain I flew with uses this methodology:

1. Look at using a closer alternate.
2. Find some 1/2 weights.
3. Play with fuel.
A. Reduce contingency fuel.
B. Burn extra taxi fuel.
4. List extra empty galley carts.
5. Change Additional Crew Member to Female.

I look forward to your responses :)
 
1. Find half weights
2. Use ACARS to get more accurate max TO weight
3. See if a different runway or flap position will give more weight
4. Re-evaluate how much fuel I will burn during the taxi
5. Bring gate checked bags into the cabin.
6. Re-evaluate contingency fuel
7. Call OPS and ask if they want to bump bags or pax
 
viper548 said:
7. Call OPS and ask if they want to bump bags or pax
Click to expand...

Very important step! I've flown with many new captains at a couple of airlines that didn't understand that figuring out who or what to bump (other than fuel) isn't a decision you have to make. Someone else solves that problem for you.
 
Some of those "tricks" would not work at my airline due to our operational specifications. To find extra load carrying ability you might want to follow the following checklist and use it in non sequential order.

(1) Check dispatch release and loads at the gate. Has weather improved so that you no longer need an alternate, or is there a closer suitable alternate?
(2) Look at extra fuel and hold fuel. However, be conservative until you get experience on the airports involved. Of course, keep your dispatcher in the loop. A diversion so you could get one passenger on board will not be appreciated by the other passengers.
(2a) Consider winds, runway selection, departure procedure and flap setting to maximize load carrying abilities.
(3) When you make your fuel order, ask the fueler to maintain a watch and not over fuel you.
(4) Once on the jet, ask your flight attendant for a count of the children on board.
(5) Consider whether your airline includes bags in the cabin with the passenger weights. If it does, gate checked bags might be better kept with the passengers.
(6) Consider whether your airline allows you to use actual weights for any additional crew, or jumpseat occupants.

The best letters of recommendation you can get is from a grateful senior Captain at your dream airline who dead tired after a trip around the World is depending on your jump seat to get home to their family. You are smart to help passengers, non revenue folks and especially jumpseaters on their commute if there is any way to do so.
 
your_dreamguy said:
Hello,

I am putting my bid for Captain upgrade soon. I am starting to think of some scenarios I've seen as an F/O. My question is...the gate agent tells you about estimated pax and bags. It looks as if you'll be overweight. What methodology do you use to squeeze people or bags on board? For example, the last captain I flew with uses this methodology:

1. Look at using a closer alternate.
2. Find some 1/2 weights.
3. Play with fuel.
A. Reduce contingency fuel.
B. Burn extra taxi fuel.
4. List extra empty galley carts.
5. Change Additional Crew Member to Female.

I look forward to your responses :)
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: How about getting your company to actually operate the equipment in the environment it was designed for.......... regional flying.
Come to think of it - doesn't this belong in the regional section?
 
Fox Tree - funny you should mention that. The last time using the procedures was needed was to get one of your Captains home from Memphis after his 7 day international trip turned into an 8 day due to a rare FedEx cancellation.

We don't have any say in where they fly our airplanes to. We just do our job, like you do yours - and BTW - when can folks jumpseat on FedEx? I'd love to travel to the pacific with a sleeping bag and a dinner I packed instead of row 110 on an ID96.
 
Last edited:
your_dreamguy said:
Hello,

I am putting my bid for Captain upgrade soon. I am starting to think of some scenarios I've seen as an F/O. My question is...the gate agent tells you about estimated pax and bags. It looks as if you'll be overweight. What methodology do you use to squeeze people or bags on board?
Click to expand...

It really depends on how badly the company is screwing me lately.

If the answer is (very likely) badly, then my methodology is:

1) Use the most conservative numbers and operational considerations (engine loss into rising terrain, highest reported temperature, lowest reported headwind).

2) Let load control/dispatch/use the stock numbers

3) Make no effort to accomodate any additional anything. If people and/or bags are bumped, hmmm, tough cookies.

In this way, everyone gets exactly what they pay for, a pissed off employee doing EXACTLY what they pay him for...the minimum.

Nu
 
~~~^~~~ said:
Fox Tree - funny you should mention that. The last time using the procedures was needed was to get one of your Captains home from Memphis after his 7 day international trip turned into an 8 day due to a rare FedEx cancellation.

We don't have any say in where they fly our airplanes to. We just do our job, like you do yours - and BTW - when can folks jumpseat on FedEx? I'd love to travel to the pacific with a sleeping bag and a dinner I packed instead of row 110 on an ID96.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for helping him out. I'm sure he appreciated it. Don't take it personally. I was just sarcastically venting about the sad state of affairs we face as both pax and pilots. A 50 seat RJ was never designed to fly from the east coast to DEN. Add a little wx and an alternate and the pax or bags (or both) have to suffer. I know it's not your fault - you just fly the planes. But you end up having to pick up the slack for poor decisions by some idiot well above your pay grade.

As far as jumpseats - what's keeping you from jumpseating? If you're talking international - I apologize. I have no idea if that can or will change. Domestic, as long as we have a jumpseat agreement, you're welcome aboard. Depending on where you're going, it can be a nice hip-pocket when you've spent all day at the pax terminal trying to get home (or even to work).
 
Fox-Tree said:
Hey, thanks for helping him out. I'm sure he appreciated it. Don't take it personally. I was just sarcastically venting about the sad state of affairs we face as both pax and pilots. A 50 seat RJ was never designed to fly from the east coast to DEN. Add a little wx and an alternate and the pax or bags (or both) have to suffer. I know it's not your fault - you just fly the planes.
Click to expand...
It's not just a long-haul RJ problem.

The RJ I have to take once every blue moon from ATL-BNA when the weather requires an alternate automatically makes the flight weight critical. It's already close to that on a normal day for ZFW anyway (the small Embraers and the 50-seater CRJ have absolutely pitiful ZFW).

When I did fly an RJ, one of the ones missed here when it was a landing weight problem (which was the case more often than not flying 60-90 minute segment legs), we'd call dispatch and have them recompute the fuel burn to fly at a drastically-lower altitude and/or deliberately plan to taxi longer, well into our contingency fuel, which we were legally allowed to use for long taxis (as long as we still had safe alternate and c-fuel).

I got some nasty calls from ops doing it a couple times, but that's just too bad. You gave me the keys to your jet, and I'm getting all my folks from Point A to Point B, especially the non-revs who have to put up with the crappy working conditions we all suffered from in the regionals.

Cost the company an extra $500-$1000 in fuel? Too Fu*king Bad. That's the price you pay for operating a marginally-efficient aircraft.

Incidentally, used to run into this all the time on the DC-9 running MEM-BNA as well trying to jumpseat home. Actually got bumped by it twice, leaving about half a dozen non-revs at the gate. Luckily some of us had crashpad cars and we all shared rides home.

Yet another reason why I still keep a crashpad car in ATL even though I don't have a crashpad anymore. A 4 hour drive beats another night away from home every day of the week.
 
The way I'm reading into some of the responses, guys flying RJs normally consider everyone to be an adult for weight purposes? If so, why?
 
Fox-Tree said:
:rolleyes: How about getting your company to actually operate the equipment in the environment it was designed for.......... regional flying.
Come to think of it - doesn't this belong in the regional section?
Click to expand...


AHHHHAHHHAHHAHH

Dud, you are killing me. Like the majors don't use A320's and 757's as commuters. get real. Clt to GSO in a 1/3 full 757, followed by a full Dash-8, and then reverse the flight.

Yeah, man, stay on your side of the street!!
 
call dispact and tell them that a buddy just reported that FL 320 is really bumpy on that route and that he should file us for FL 250. increases "planned" fuel burn, but can still go up to save gas on the flight if necessary. just make sure you land under max weight. had this scenario play out by an Express Jet captain. totally hooked me up trying to get to go see momma.

mookie
 
Did you count midgets? (Oh! im sorry, little people)
 
Visceral said:
The way I'm reading into some of the responses, guys flying RJs normally consider everyone to be an adult for weight purposes? If so, why?
Click to expand...

If there is no W/B issue it's easier to calculate passengers that weigh the same verses some at 184 and some at 81. When weight is an issue we'll take the extra time to figure the kid count. It's an approved method of figuring weight and balance.
 
Since we are all trying like we are going to get the in-laws on standby on the little RJ, go see if your FOM allows for Exemption 8657 and if the conditions do exist to apply that rule. Then call your dispatch to drop the alternate. You need to verify but you need at least 2SM and BKN010 1 hour prior and after, need CAT II status on three areas, the airport, the airplane and the crew, and no TS whatsoever.
 
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@#$#$% RJ's

You guys may like to fly them, but I avoid riding in them like the plague......I hope this fascination with toy airplanes ends soon.
 
Fox-Tree said:
:rolleyes: How about getting your company to actually operate the equipment in the environment it was designed for.......... regional flying.
Come to think of it - doesn't this belong in the regional section?
Click to expand...


Nope, cuz as fo's in the "regional" world, we already know how to compute this. The captains just watch.
 
Jonny Sacko said:
Why is this on the major board??
Click to expand...


Exactly...I was gonna jump in and post a real response to this but it looks like we've got a few SMJ boys up in here.

For the record...HP/US don't use "half weights"...it's either a kid or it's not. A kid is between 2 and 12 years old and counts as 80 lbs in the summer. Everything else is 190 lbs during the summer. Bags are 35 lbs unless they're tagged "heavy" then they're 50 lbs.

Full boat would exceed MTOW or payload? Sorry, thats why we have a POC. Buh bye.
 
viper548 said:
5. Bring gate checked bags into the cabin.
Click to expand...

If you've seriously done this, God help you. TSA will catch you and f--- you with a big metal spike. Checked bags stay checked bags until they reach the baggage claim [3 days after you arrive at your destination]. That's a TSA reg.
 
Flys4Fun said:
If you've seriously done this, God help you. TSA will catch you and f--- you with a big metal spike. Checked bags stay checked bags until they reach the baggage claim [3 days after you arrive at your destination]. That's a TSA reg.
Click to expand...

He's talking about valet bags, i.e. carry on bags people leave at the side of the airplane to put in the cargo area during flight. It's perfectly legal.
 
Call the gate and say: "We're overweight by 8000 pounds, so figure out what you want to do because I'm keeping the alternate and I am eating lunch."
 

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