Outsourcing (True Story)

[pilotyip]

For me, middle class would refer to the median income so that would actually be about 31K a year.

You are probably looking at median household income or average income which would not be reflective of a middle class income.

What are you talking about. So you are saying that middle class is defined by a income of 31K, anyone making 31K or above is middle class? And people making regional F/O wages are the definition of middle class? And these people are disappearing as the middle class disappears? Now back to your earlier post that middle class is in danger. Why is it in danger? Because 31K jobs are disappearing? BTW Here in the Detroit area, the shopping malls are packed, looks like the middle class is doing fine here in the US.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When was the last time you took that Toyota to the shop?

Do they even break?

[/FONT]Protectionism is a ridiculous strategy in a global market, quality and innovation is however the way forward

Everyone on Mt. Rushmore was a protectionist. Uncle Sam pursued that policy while John Bull babbled on about free trade. We eclipsed England and their cars became the subject of jokes long before ours did.

But outsourcing can be just a scare tactic, sometimes...
http://goo.gl/av9sx

 

[J.Otto]

While this is a perfect example of those great stories that show up in email chain letters with a message that the recipient is predisposed to absorb........

Does anyone have a source for this being an actual true story? Yeah, it's a great parable with some pertinent points, but I take exception to it being disseminated as something that actually happened.
The world we currently live in is saturated with misinformation, spin, half-truth, innuendo, logical fallacy, and outright lie. Pretending something is fact when it is not does a disservice to everyone involved. That's how we end up with a populace that holds Glenn Beck as an authority on science instead of actual scientists.

On the surface, it sounds like complete and utter bull$hit. I mean really. Read it again and tell me that it sounds like something that actually happened. A group of Mitsubishi (or whomever) workers and american workers took time off from producing cars to have a canoe race? Really? A canoe race.
You ever seen a NINE person CANOE? Think about it.

Would it be so hard to keep passing around information that we know is complete bull$hit, just because it happens to shore up whatever belief system we subscribe to? This 'ends justifies the means' approach to journalism and the truth ultimately hurts us all, regardless of what we believe. If you can't provide a reference to a legitimate source for the information that you are endorsing.....present it as your opinion, not as a fact. It's really not difficult to be honest and actually rely on truth to support your position.

We're all intelligent people here and we can do better.

Ahhh... of course the canoe story is not true.

The OUTSOURCING part is. Hence the parentheses after the word outsourcing. Get it? Did you think the canoe race actually took place. It didnt! Its what you call a parable.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages. TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results: TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses. IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

 

[brokeflyer]

read the first post.....all those criminals steering the boat.

thats the problem. ceo's make an average of 475 TIMES more than the average worker. In japan the ceo makes about 28 TIMES as much.

corporate greed is going to kill this country, not unions.

Why does a ceo take 155 million a year and his company is posting losses?

 

[flyboyike]

the profits go back to Japan, Korea, & Germany, not here

Not necessarily. Often the profits end up at places like Citibank, JP Morgan, Bank of America etc in order to escape excessive taxation back home.

 

[J.Otto]

read the first post.....all those criminals steering the boat.

thats the problem. ceo's make an average of 475 TIMES more than the average worker. In japan the ceo makes about 28 TIMES as much.

corporate greed is going to kill this country, not unions.

Why does a ceo take 155 million a year and his company is posting losses?

In Japan, the CEOs make maybe 1-2 Million whereas in the US there are many tiered executives making 10-20 Million a year..plus bonuses and benefit packages when they split.. its disgraceful.

 

[J.Otto]

Not necessarily. Often the profits end up at places like Citibank, JP Morgan, Bank of America etc in order to escape excessive taxation back home.

Theres notbing virtuous about these investment banks making money... they're the reason our economy is the way it is now. Dont think they share the wealth with us.

 

[cynic]

What are you talking about. So you are saying that middle class is defined by a income of 31K, anyone making 31K or above is middle class? And people making regional F/O wages are the definition of middle class?

Yes. I define middle class as at or around the median income which is 31K a year. You could come up with some other definition.

You can look here as well - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States 75% of the population makes less than 50K a year.

And these people are disappearing as the middle class disappears?

The median wage, or the middle class wage (I consider that to be the same thing) is falling. That is what I mean by disappear. Perhaps disappear is misleading. If you want to be precise you could say the median wage in the United states adjusted for cost of living or inflation is falling.

Now back to your earlier post that middle class is in danger. Why is it in danger? Because 31K jobs are disappearing?

I'll just stop using the word middle class. It's imprecise and it upsets you. Let's say, for people making close to the median wage in the United States, their income is falling. They have less discretionary income.

You explain that kids today have more crap. I'd explain that the costs of some goods (electronics and clothes for example) have indeed fallen - good. But other costs (healthcare and education for example) are rising sharply and overall, while people can buy more 'crap' because 'crap' is cheaper they have less and less income and over time this is a problem.

You are kind of a dip3h1t so I expect at this point I've lost you and you'll respond with something about your small house growing up and you won't bother to ACTUALLY read anything on median person income and cost of living.

I say this because we've already had this conversation many times.

 

[J.Otto]

$31K doesnt buy you much and certainly not a middle class lifestyle. Id have to say 6 figures+ in a modest area might.

 

[cynic]

$31K doesnt buy you much and certainly not a middle class lifestyle. Id have to say 6 figures+ in a modest area might.

And that is why I passed on the job with COEX and work for a University.

I do get to do contract flying which is nice. But ugh... making 22K a year and then MAYBE just MAYBE if the airline I pick doesn't go under and I got hired at the right time, then maybe 10 years later I'm making the salary I STARTED at as a programmer for the University. Sheez.....