Outrageous new drug testing policy

[WayBack]

You wanna see me naked and piss? Fine with me, but be careful, I push awfuly hard at the end to make sure I get every drop out...and I have been known to shoot the green apple splatters.

 

[Razorback Flyer]

I read through the brief (no pun intended) on the rule change, and the only big policy change I see is the ability to search for prostetics/tubes IF there is evidence of tampering.
The DOT policy has always been to conduct observed collections if there was evidence of tampering - so no change in policy there, as far as I can see. Not saying I like it - just don't see a big difference in the policy.
Actually, the DOT policy specifically says that the collector CAN NOT require you to remove clothing for testing. Some hospitals now are requiring their workers to put on hospital gowns for their drug tests (get to keep their underwear on underneath,) even if they don't suspect any kind of tampering. I kinda think this is pointless, as its somewhat intrusive, and doesn't provide much additional protection against tampering. So the DOT rules actually prevent a collector from asking you to strip.
Personally, I don't understand why the whole drug testing system doesn't go over to hair or saliva testing - or something of that nature. Much harder to cheat, supposedly more accurate, and much less intrusive. That would make the whole dreaded drug testing process a little easier - unless you were a drug user.

 

[Beetle007]

I have met pilots with no hair (not even an eyelash).

And I need to keep every hair I can =)

 

[Herkdrv]

I read through the brief (no pun intended) on the rule change, and the only big policy change I see is the ability to search for prostetics/tubes IF there is evidence of tampering.
The DOT policy has always been to conduct observed collections if there was evidence of tampering - so no change in policy there, as far as I can see. Not saying I like it - just don't see a big difference in the policy.
Actually, the DOT policy specifically says that the collector CAN NOT require you to remove clothing for testing. Some hospitals now are requiring their workers to put on hospital gowns for their drug tests (get to keep their underwear on underneath,) even if they don't suspect any kind of tampering. I kinda think this is pointless, as its somewhat intrusive, and doesn't provide much additional protection against tampering. So the DOT rules actually prevent a collector from asking you to strip.
Personally, I don't understand why the whole drug testing system doesn't go over to hair or saliva testing - or something of that nature. Much harder to cheat, supposedly more accurate, and much less intrusive. That would make the whole dreaded drug testing process a little easier - unless you were a drug user.

Very expensive compared to urine testing. Maybe in the future it will get cheaper but for now it doesn't make much sense dollars wise.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Very expensive compared to urine testing. Maybe in the future it will get cheaper but for now it doesn't make much sense dollars wise.

Hair will find things from your college days (i.e., things from years ago). Urine provides a better window of substance usage due to the metabolic process. Of course maybe the technogology is there to determine via a piece of hair when you did what, kind of like the inner rings of a tree.

 

[Beetle007]

I know people who have done acid, and they should never be allowed to fly an airplane. I have personally never done "drugs".

Some drugs are worse than others (from a physical and judgment standpoint). The FBI prohibits hiring anyone anyone who used marijuana within the past three years or more than 15 times ever. They also ban anyone who used other illegal drugs, such as cocaine or heroin, within the past 10 years or more than five times.

However, I think some drugs should be legalized. Also, someone shouldn't fail a drug test because they did drugs legally in a place like Amsterdam. Although I am not sure how much time should elapse before you can fly an airplane (weeks, months, or years?). How do foreign airlines handle this issue. Are foreign pilots prohibited from EVER using any drugs (even when they are legal in parts of their country)?

 

[Raoul Duke]

When I came to, the general back-alley ambience of the suite was so rotten, so incredibly foul. How long had I been lying there? All these signs of violence. What had happened? There was evidence in this room of excessive consumption of almost every type of drug known to civilized man since 1544 AD. What kind of addict would need all these coconut husks and crushed honeydew rinds? Would the presence of junkies account for all these uneaten french fries? These puddles of glazed ketchup on the bureau? Maybe so. But then why all this booze? And these crude pornographic photos smeared with mustard that had dried to a hard yellow crust? These were not the hoofprints of your average God-fearing junky. It was too savage. Too aggressive.

 

[eddie]

Interesting. And exactly how will they watch our lady pilots urinate??

They won't need to, girls never lie.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

However, I think some drugs should be legalized. Also, someone shouldn't fail a drug test because they did drugs legally in a place like Amsterdam. Although I am not sure how much time should elapse before you can fly an airplane (weeks, months, or years?). How do foreign airlines handle this issue. Are foreign pilots prohibited from EVER using any drugs (even when they are legal in parts of their country)?

Marijuana is not officially legal in AMS, it is only tolerated like many other things such as prostitution. They have a culture of tolerance and there are stipulations as to how much a proprietor may have on hand and how much he may sell to an individual per transaction.

A few years ago, Canada decriminalized larger quantities of marijuana up to an ounce. They do this so as to not waste resources in the nonsense of arresting people for small personal use. Bascially, anything above an ounce will get you arrested.

Think of all this like jay-walking. In NYC it's technically against the law, but we all do it and it's not enforced.


http://www.geocities.com/stevenedw/gedogen.html

The Dutch verb gedogen is not really translatable; into English nor any other language. The term is Dutch, the concept is Dutch — and its application only works in Holland.
The nearest approximation of "gedogen," in English, is "to tolerate." Tolerance is passive, though. Gedogen is active. Gedogen is an open-eyed tolerance, and a matter of governmental policy.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

My company uses hair for testing. They go back 3 months. They can go further but 3 months is there limit. They can tell the exact day +/- a couple. I'd pee in front of someone any day.:nuts:

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

The can check out my junk if they want. It'll just make the other men feel bad and the women depressed over what they have access to.

But hey, we all can't be winners. The world needs ditch diggers, too.

Nu

 

[avbug]

Who says ditch diggers aren't winners?

Think of all this like jay-walking. In NYC it's technically against the law, but we all do it and it's not enforced.

Unlike jaywalking...not everyone does drugs.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Who says ditch diggers aren't winners?



Unlike jaywalking...not everyone does drugs.

Okay, not everyone jaywalks either or does drugs. Self-evident I suppose. But that's not my point; who does or doesn't. The context was that MJ is illegal in AMS and is only tolerated; it is not legal as the poster claimed. A quick example I came up with was jaywalking. There are a lot of laws which are broken in the ghetto, but the police dept. are told not to enforce them (i.e., tolerate).

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Who says ditch diggers aren't winners?



Unlike jaywalking...not everyone does drugs.

I know some "ditch diggers" (earth-moving operators, really) who make a good dollar in unionized construction work.

 

[TWA]

Am I reading this right that beginning today (Aug 25) the DOT has mandated that if they don't like the color or temperature of your urine they can require you to essentially strip naked while watching you urinate.

As long as she's hot; she can help too.

If you ever get into a situation where you were under the influence of a substance and are worried about a hair test, wait about a month, then shave every piece of hair off your body. It can take up to a month for the traces of narcotics to leave your system, so shaving right away won't do you much good. Your hair is just like a time line, they can even see what types of foods you have been eating.

 

[avbug]

From AIN mx alerts, today:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Court Orders Stay of DOT Direct Urine Observation[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Last Friday, the Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit (Washington, D.C.) issued a temporary stay of the Department of Transportation’s November 1 implementation of mandatory direct observation of all federally required return-to-work and follow-up urine collections, according to George Ellis, executive vice president of substance abuse services at Maple Grove, Minn.-based Verifications. “Until the Court of Appeals issues a final ruling,” he said, “FAA-[regulated] employers may choose to have those federal collections directly observed, but it is not mandatory. This legal ruling has no effect on testing conducted under the employer’s own authority [non-DOT testing].” The DOT justified the rule by asserting that “the violation rate on return-to-duty tests is almost four times as high” and on “follow-up tests over twice the random violation rate.” The agency added that it “stands by its view that return-to-duty and follow-up tests involve a heightened risk of cheating, compared to other testing occasions.[/FONT]

 

[waka]

Hair will find things from your college days (i.e., things from years ago). Urine provides a better window of substance usage due to the metabolic process. Of course maybe the technogology is there to determine via a piece of hair when you did what, kind of like the inner rings of a tree.

It will only detect substances from years ago only if you still have hair from years ago. In other words, your hair would have to be pretty long.....not likely for a professional pilot. After the substances have been purged from your system, any hair or nails that have grown since will be free of the substances.