Other reasons airlines are failing...

[Vik]

You'd be surprised to know that many airlines do infact prohibt babies in 1st and Business. People that have infants usually get bulkhead seats in Coach in order to have the crib hooked up the "wall." They keep those seats reserved for that purpose and the legroom is as good as business class.

Where is Resume Writer (Kathy) when we need her .. and all the other FAs or ex-FAs on here. They need to chime in and tell us what the policy was on their airline.

I got the point, Vik. The point is that noone prohibits babies in 1st, at least none that I know of, and I don't think any passenger is going to say "boy, I hated that screaming baby on (insert airline here), so I think next time I will go on (insert other airline here) instead", or "boy, I hated that screaming baby on that airliner, next time I'll drive". This was just a b1tchfest about a screaming baby cloaked in a "this will cause that airline to fail" story.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Or you could do like the family I saw one time going from Paris to Atlanta on Air Frog's 747 - two little kids (ages 7 and 10) were sitting beside me in coach, and every once in awhile a well dressed woman would come back from first and check on them.

I finally asked - the parents bought themselves first class tickets, and put the kids in coach.

PS - 9 times out of 10 if a baby is screaming in pain on an aircraft, their ears are stopped up.

very true about the babies...and take a look at that mom traveling with the infants, chances are she is completly burned out and twice as aggrevated as you....and remember, even if YOU hate kids -- chances are YOUR mom had to do the same thing with you and you bet you balled your eyes out too...

Give them a smile, ask if they can use any help-you will make that Moms day and look like a true gentleman.

then maybe discriminantly ask the FA's if there is another row you can sit in (?) if it really drives you nuts.

but....

until you own your own GIV or Fractional Share, shut your fruckin' mouth and enjoy your 16 inches of space you paid $99 and dont worry about the other pax, chump..

 

[Corona]

I have sympathy for parents of the squalling kids. My oldest niece has a voice almost loud enough to shatter glass, and of course she had to be colicky when she was an infant. Naturally, as a bonus, her ears also usually stopped up when they flew. Prior to 9/11, I would often pick them up at the gate, and I could see the dirty looks shot at them by other pax.

There's a big difference between a screaming baby and bratty, older kids, though. If a kid's having a bad day in the row behind me, my earplugs will usually filter it out. If he's kicking the back of my seat; trouble's a'brewin'. I don't tolerate more than 30 seconds of that before I'll speak to the parents.

I never fly without earplugs.

C

 

[Cactus-Wrench]

Interesting, I have to agree with the guy/gal who started the thread. I think the root of the problem though is more to do with air-travel etiquette. What was, and what is. I can remember the few times I got to travel by airplane when I was a young lad, and if I was not behaving like a perfect gentleman, I got the look, that meant in about 5 seconds, my hind end was going to be as red as the fire extinguisher. Of course in those days, you wouldn't of been met by child protection services, local port authority, and a host of other child abuse services.

Lots of folks I see coming on board with flip flops on, holes in the crotches and rears of their pants, t-shirts that say stuff like F***You, I just F******Your Mother, putting their feet up on the seats, even the first class folks putting their feet with shoes on the bulk head, leaving nice scuff marks. Kid sitting behind me repeatedly kicking my seatback, and furthermore the parent not saying anything until I have to say something to them. Folks using the lav barefoot, and you try and be nice and tell them of sanitary risks, and they get mad at you, go figure.

It's really down right pathetic, and I actually prefer to sit in coach, maybe get a couple of seats to myself, just for the fact I am a nonrev and I don't want anything special. Oh well, just my 2 cents.

 

[Eagle-ista]

A few of you missed my point, Most didn't...

I.P.-
This is not a "bitchfest". I used to travel with a 3 year old autistic daughter. I know what it's like to have the entire plane looking at you like you just burned down a village full of women and chidren. I never took my kids in first. (it wasn't an pressure/ear blockage issue, she just couldn't sit still for that long.) My airline wouldn't allow it and I wouldn't think of it.

I was amamzed to see how many took the opportunity to attack me personally. I don't feel that passengers are any less human because they have children. But, I don't believe lap children, I'm talking one to two year olds, are appropriate in first class on an airliner flying a long distance.

I made reference to how pi$$ed I thought a passenger would be if they paid for that first class ticket and mentioned some of the reasons why many passengers pay for that upgrade. One of which is being away from an out of control lap child that bothers the other paying passengers around them. People don't pay $ to help raise other people's children when they sit in a premium seat. All it would take is one unruly child, jumping on it's parent's lap, howling at the top of it's lungs to put them off not only flying in first, but flying that airline.

I have actually seen a mother start to change her child's diaper on the floor in first. Another passenger got a flight attendant's attention and she asked the mother to change the baby in the lav. Can you imagine how that smell enhances the experience of paying $1,000 for a premium seat, when you could have paid less than $500? It also goes so well with red wine.

Assume for a moment the reason that passenger paid to sit in first was to sleep, perhaps after being awake all day or all night. Is it unreasonable for that passenger to feel that he deserves the quiet that they associcate with paying for first class?

I realize that we are no longer just competing with the other airlines for passengers. We are competing with bus companies as well. I am amazed with the level of intellegence that gets on my planes, in some cases, that they even found the right gate, let alone the right airport. This is, of course, a generalization. I have met many very interesting people as well.

I have sat between that professional wrestler and the Cowboy with the 20 gallon hat in a middle seat in the last row in coach, and when I'm non-reving, I'm happy to be anywhere on the inside of the aluminum tube. I mentioned this because I saw the paying passengers obvious desire to be somewhere else when these kids, and their parents, have made first class, "less than premium".

 

[saabcaptain]

Am I alone in this perception?

yes, yes you are.

 

[jetexas]

How many of you folks who jumped down Eagle-ista's throat would bring a toddler into a movie theatre? A fine, upscale restaurant? A symphony?, etc.
I believe his point was there are some places where infant/toddler kids should not be allowed.
That's the esssense of very young kids. Nothing against them, they just don't know, can't or or not guided to behave or sit still.
First Class means, (or at least historically meant) wine or drink, food, better seat, better service, peace and quiet?..A cut above. If airlines allow parents with toddler kids to ride in 'First Class', then the name and price structure should be changed to meet the model and expectation.

 

[I.P. Freley]

How many of you folks who jumped down Eagle-ista's throat would bring a toddler into a movie theatre? A fine, upscale restaurant? A symphony?, etc.

I did jump down his throat, and even I recognize I got carried away a little. The angry response didn't really match the nature of the "crime", so eagle-ista, I officially apologize for flying off the handle like that. Sometimes I do that.

In any case, jetexas' argument above is not a good one, imho. Movie theaters, restaurants and symphonies are places that are usually in the same locale (more or less) as the parents and child, and furthermore, are places where people go for entertainment. Infants in those places are totally unwarranted, as neighbors or babysitters are the norm in such situations.

Airplanes, buses, and other transportation modes are not in the same category at all. I, too, have been horribly annoyed by screaming/crying babies while either non-revving or traveling on my own dime, but I just accept it. I don't think it is reasonable to expect mom and pop with their offspring to leave the kids behind, because more than likely any parents travelling with children are going on vacation (a relative concept when children are present) or going to visit grandma and grandpa. I also don't think it is reasonable, even if it's already some airlines' policy, to tell people who are willing to spend THOUSANDS of dollars to buy up three, four or five seats in first class "sorry, we'd love to take your money but you all have to sit in coach, where your annoying toddler(s) can annoy even MORE people, but those people didn't pay as much so tough t1tty on them".

In the end, I'm not sure I understand the original argument, or at least the question posed at the top of the thread. Are people really going to NOT travel on an airline because they had an experience with a screaming baby on their last flight? What if it wasn't a baby at all, but a smelly fellow passenger sitting next to them? Or a crazy person babbling to themselves? Or the first time flyer who's so nervous and freaked out that they infect everyone within ten feet? Or speaking of infected, the row-mate who's got the flu and is sneezing all over the place? Or someone who's drunk? Or your basic Chatty Cathy who won't leave you alone? I'm sure we've all experienced one or more of the above (or in my case, ALL of them).

I'm trying to imagine a situation where the cabin crew tells a passenger who spent two grand on his seat "sorry, sir, you smell too bad, so you can't sit here". It's not too far off from "sorry, sir, your money is no good here and take your little monsters back to coach".

I think people mostly choose airlines to go places that are too far to drive. I doubt people are just going to choose NOT TO GO because of screaming babies, and most of us can't charter our own airplane.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

We don't argue about this at SWA. Every seat is first class.

 

[Mooseflyer]

We don't argue about this at SWA. Every seat is first class.

 

[OrphicSeth]

I non-reved on Delta from the ages between three and twenty-three. My Dad gave me many rules that I had to follow...Do not open your mouth unless spoken to, do not ask the FA for anything, yes ma'am no ma'am etc, and under no circumstances was I allowed to get up when the seat belt sign was on. If any of these rules were broken my Dad would be fired and thrown in jail, at least that is what he told me. And, to this day I get flustered if an FA offers me a choice of meals .

HAHAHAHAHA! Funny! Boy, can I relate! Same story here, different company, and my mom would go to the clinker instead of pops. Even today with those days behind me:

F/A: Sir, which meal would you like tonight?
Me in coach with shoes, shirt, and tie: I'll have the meal you have the most of, please, thank you very much!

 

[135fr8r]

The "paddle" used to fix problems like that, but then again, nowdays the paddle is more illegal than a pair of nail scissors on an airliner.

 

[Vik]

Uh, I think its cattle class, but if you're right, if you only got one class, then its "first class."

I can't wait till SWA gets some tazers and prods people to get on the plane .. "come on group A! get on the plane, don't make me turn this thing upto 50,000 volts again"

Just bust't yer chops ...

SWA has some good stuff going on. I keep 10-15 tickets booked with them at all times to the destinations I fly to the most. I book them 3 months in advance when they are dirt cheap and cancel them if I don't need them. No penalty and I get to keep my money with them to rebook.

We don't argue about this at SWA. Every seat is first class.

 

[iflyhigh]

First:

Most first class seats on any carriers these days is usually filled with customers who receive free upgrades, whether its via points or by the simple fact that they have achieved a certain level of points. So more than likely, the people is first did not pay $1500.00 to fly and thus the airline lost no money.

Second:

So if the customer with the child was sitting in the immediate row behind first class, 1st row of coach, would this have made a difference. The first class customer can still hear the child. Unless you stick the child and parent in the back of the aircraft that it makes no difference. Plus should coach passengers who paid the highest coach fare be subjected to this, I would so no.

Everyone is a paying customer on an airline. Grant you the person spending $1500.00 deserves some good treatment. But unless you know who that person is, its a mute point.

 

[jhill]

Eagle-ista

So in your world children & their parents would only be allowed to fly coach. I guess they use a different type of money than you. Remember the airlines don't let passengers into First Class because they like them. They either paid for the ticket or used miles that they had earned to upgrade. Enjoy your free ride in First Class, just remember the parents with the child didn't get First Class for free.

737 your full of sh!t. Screaming kids are a nuisance someone who used their miles or paid the extra price to ride in first should NOT have to tolorate. Although a non-rev can't complain a paying pax darn sure can and most do. Although 99% of this problem is cause by hippie parents who will not control their kids because they are afraid to upset the little darlings, no child under the age of 5 should be alowed in first class. If you think your kid is so dam important charter a jet.

 

[crj579]

jhill never was a child. He popped out with a full set of manners and never cried once!

 

[Vik]

Your logic about who sits in 1st is seriously flawed. People that can redeem enough miles to sit in 1st fly A LOT and if they're going to not have a pleasant flight, they would rather exchange that 1st first for 3-4 economy trips.

British Airways charges 240,000 miles for 1st, 90,000 for econ for one of the routes I fly. I'll tell you this .. BA prefers I fly 1st instead of 3-4 times on the same route in Econ. If 1st was full of babies, I'd take 3-4 econ tickets instead.

The "Second:" part of your post I agree with. Infact, on most flights, infants are in coach, and in exit row seats because thats where they install the crib and people in business class can hear the baby ... the passengers in first cannot.

First:

Most first class seats on any carriers these days is usually filled with customers who receive free upgrades, whether its via points or by the simple fact that they have achieved a certain level of points. So more than likely, the people is first did not pay $1500.00 to fly and thus the airline lost no money.

Second:

So if the customer with the child was sitting in the immediate row behind first class, 1st row of coach, would this have made a difference. The first class customer can still hear the child. Unless you stick the child and parent in the back of the aircraft that it makes no difference. Plus should coach passengers who paid the highest coach fare be subjected to this, I would so no.

Everyone is a paying customer on an airline. Grant you the person spending $1500.00 deserves some good treatment. But unless you know who that person is, its a mute point.