Organization Of Black Airline Pilots

[Caveman]

I agree. However, the root of the problem is inner city black adults have abdicated any and all responsibility for the raising of their children. It's not racism that's the problem, it's black urban culture that's the problem.

OBAP is treating the symptom. Instead of attacking the problem at the source they attempt to put a bandaid on it by getting preferential hiring or by motivating the kids. I like the idea of motivating kids but abhor ANY preferential hiring. I'd be more impressed by OBAP if they were in the trenches demanding that urban black adults start raising their kids appropriately. Until all of us start doing that nothing will change. They'll keep pumping out kids, they'll keep abondoning them physically and mentally, and they'll keep hollering racism. We need to address the real problem not the negative outcomes created by the problem.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Caveman....

I'd be more impressed by OBAP if they were in the trenches demanding that urban black adults start raising their kids appropriately. Until all of us start doing that nothing will change. They'll keep pumping out kids, they'll keep abondoning them physically and mentally, and they'll keep hollering racism.

agreed.... How?

and while we are working on inplementing how... is what OBAP doing...ok?

 

[Caveman]

Try this on for size. Mind your own business and try running your own life and stop acting like you know what's best for everyone else or every other race.

I am minding my own business. I generally stick to my functional lily white, conservative christian neighborhood and stay away from the dysfunctional war zone that most inner cities have become. Inner city blacks are not tending to their own business and that's why their culture is in complete chaos.

I have no obligation or desire to help until you get your own house in order. Stay in school, stop teenage pregnancies, get a job and stop shooting each other over 'respect'. It's not hard to get ahead in America. Here's a fool proof plan:

1. Graduate high school.
2. Don't get pregnant or get someone else pregnant.
3. Don't get married until one of three things happens:
a. Graduate college
b. Serve one enlistment in the military
c. Graduate from a trade school
4. Keep debt to a minimum (student loans o.k.)

If anyone follows this plan they'll be about 22 and off to a good start. It doesn't require any wealth. All it requires is the desire and discipline to do some real basic things. Until inner city black culture embraces this kind of thinking they are screwed. The main reason white America is successful is because more of us follow this plan than inner city blacks do. It has nothing to do with racism. It's all about personal responsibility and each community's willingness to stand up and say "Hey! That behavior is inappropriate! Stop it!"

 

[Caveman]

Caveman....



agreed.... How?

and while we are working on inplementing how... is what OBAP doing...ok?

How? See the above post.

What OBAP is doing regarding going to the schools is fine. I'm not crazy about the idea they were looking for a black pilot. Any pilot that comes from less than ideal circumstances would be better than a black pilot from an upper class background. However, positive examples are good regardless of the source. I still don't like any affirmative action or pro minority hiring that's based only on skin tone.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Preferences? Gee...Years ago....I remember a black guy, 1st LT, and I was his IP.

Unfortunately, he didn't do well in Pilot Training....He wwent to a Fac Board...and they had him washed out.

At no time was there any conversation about this student's performance with me...the IP. the only conversations that I recall that took place were with me and my Flight Commander.

I testified at the Board...had everything documented ( like I did with everyone else)...said my peice and left the room.

BTW...his dad was a very high ranking civilian at the Pentagon. I never heard a word.

Preferences? Don't know about that...but there's my example.

 

[get2flyin]

I agree. However, the root of the problem is inner city black adults have abdicated any and all responsibility for the raising of their children. It's not racism that's the problem, it's black urban culture that's the problem.

OBAP is treating the symptom. Instead of attacking the problem at the source they attempt to put a bandaid on it by getting preferential hiring or by motivating the kids. I like the idea of motivating kids but abhor ANY preferential hiring. I'd be more impressed by OBAP if they were in the trenches demanding that urban black adults start raising their kids appropriately. Until all of us start doing that nothing will change. They'll keep pumping out kids, they'll keep abondoning them physically and mentally, and they'll keep hollering racism. We need to address the real problem not the negative outcomes created by the problem.

Excellent points I hadn't considers. So what you're saying is maybe we should get a bunch of old white guys from upper class to head out of the suburbs and talk to the inner-city kid's PARENTS and tell them their kids can be anything they want to be. Ok......uh.....any volunteers? Anyone?

Just kidding...but in all seriousness, I think we're more likely to be able to influence social issues by providing positive roles models and guidance to kids who may not have them rather than letting the negative cycle continue while we stand on the sidelines shaking our heads disapprovingly. We already know that doesn't work. So if this is what we're trying to rally members of OBAP to do, GREAT!

As far as preferential hiring, we tend to support those around us that we can relate with. How many of us helped a guy from our former airline get a job with our current airline, even if we didn't know them that well? Or maybe from our Alma mater? Hell, I'm guessing you're former Marines. Would you help a fellow Marine? I'd damn well hope so. In essence, you'd be giving them preference. I HATE the idea of hiring unqualified pilots into our profession, period. But it's hard to think poorly of someone who is trying to mentor an eager young mind and prepare them to receive the torch as it's passed down through our profession.

(Speaker Notes: Speech complete, cue the band to start playing America the Beautiful)

I'm sorry if that became a little overly dramatic. I spent a number of years as a teacher and I still have a great belief in the youth.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I am minding my own business. I generally stick to my functional lily white, conservative christian neighborhood and stay away from the dysfunctional war zone that most inner cities have become. Inner city blacks are not tending to their own business and that's why their culture is in complete chaos.

I have no obligation or desire to help until you get your own house in order. Stay in school, stop teenage pregnancies, get a job and stop shooting each other over 'respect'. It's not hard to get ahead in America. Here's a fool proof plan:

1. Graduate high school.
2. Don't get pregnant or get someone else pregnant.
3. Don't get married until one of three things happens:
a. Graduate college
b. Serve one enlistment in the military
c. Graduate from a trade school
4. Keep debt to a minimum (student loans o.k.)

If anyone follows this plan they'll be about 22 and off to a good start. It doesn't require any wealth. All it requires is the desire and discipline to do some real basic things. Until inner city black culture embraces this kind of thinking they are screwed. The main reason white America is successful is because more of us follow this plan than inner city blacks do. It has nothing to do with racism. It's all about personal responsibility and each community's willingness to stand up and say "Hey! That behavior is inappropriate! Stop it!"

Agreed... the cylce needs to stop...however, it is easier said than done..... isn't that obvious?

A recent book by Sachs, with a forward by Bono of U2, titled The End of Poverty... clearly shows that insisiting that others simply rise up and make the choices we have such as your 1-4 are much easier said than done. (the book is about world poverty, not "poverty" in the US).

How do you expect a 13 year old to make good judgement choices when his entire world is pushing him/her to go in the opposite direction. To simply say... "the child just should" when the resources, skills, leadership, culture and motivation is not there is niave...

To turn our back on people until they make choices 1-4 and not help until they do is irresponsible and weak.

So what is wrong with helping someone obtain the goals of 1-4. What's wrong with mentoring, leading, guiding, helping...etc....

That takes real courage, leadership and strength. That is true power...

 

[Caveman]

Agreed... the cylce needs to stop...however, it is easier said than done..... isn't that obvious?

A recent book by Sachs, with a forward by Bono of U2, titled The End of Poverty... clearly shows that insisiting that others simply rise up and make the choices we have such as your 1-4 are much easier said than done. (the book is about world poverty, not "poverty" in the US).

How do you expect a 13 year old to make good judgement choices when his entire world is pushing him/her to go in the opposite direction. To simply say... "the child just should" when the resources, skills, leadership, culture and motivation is not there is niave...

To turn our back on people until they make choices 1-4 and not help until they do is irresponsible and weak.

So what is wrong with helping someone obtain the goals of 1-4. What's wrong with mentoring, leading, guiding, helping...etc....

That takes real courage, leadership and strength. That is true power...

I don't disagree that what's required for change is difficult. The problem is that it must come from the community itself. The rest of us can mentor, support and guide until we're blue in the face. We might save some, but the core problem will remain. The inner city black community has to right itself. The resources are there. The support from the rest of us is there. We've spent 40 years and $5 trillion (literally) trying to enact the change.

Until enough black voices stand up and make some noise IMO it won't change. There has to be societal and peer pressure and as of now the few voices willing to speak out are shouted down, ala Bill Cosby. If the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world won't call a spade a spade (no pun intended) and hold people to task for their behavior the inner city black community is doomed. It's a cultural problem, not an economic one.

As far as OBAP or any other organization mentoring a few kids, fine. It doesn't hurt. It still doesn't address the core issue. I still don't agree with preferential anything. Any organization that espouses that philosophy is misguided IMO, even if they do good works elsewhere.

I believe there is a double standard regarding these types of organizations, but that's a different complaint. I can separate the basic goodness of an outfit like OBAP and still be resentful that I would never be allowed to create a similar organization targeted towards disadvanteged white kids. OBAP isn't my problem, the double standard is what grinds my ass.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Fair reply.......

 

[highsky]

I agree. However, the root of the problem is inner city black adults have abdicated any and all responsibility for the raising of their children. It's not racism that's the problem, it's black urban culture that's the problem.

OBAP is treating the symptom. Instead of attacking the problem at the source they attempt to put a bandaid on it by getting preferential hiring or by motivating the kids. I like the idea of motivating kids but abhor ANY preferential hiring. I'd be more impressed by OBAP if they were in the trenches demanding that urban black adults start raising their kids appropriately. Until all of us start doing that nothing will change. They'll keep pumping out kids, they'll keep abondoning them physically and mentally, and they'll keep hollering racism. We need to address the real problem not the negative outcomes created by the problem.

Well said.