Ops management call for 2 extra meetings

[SilverSurfer]

Nope you aren't Floptions management

BTW... how come the lawyers haven't started working on something even a braindead law student could, and get people's OVERTIME PAID! That would be a START. What labor law concurs with forcing OT then NOT paying and saying "Oh we'll give you a day or 2 off, and if we don't get to it we'll pay you NEXT YEAR sometime." WTF??????? If the allegedly existing union lawyers can't even start with THAT...a "gimme" what the heck CAN they do????
Seems like only the IBT PAID posters on here (you know, the ones that accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being mgt stooges) are the ONLY ones with any seeming faith of anything happening for FLOPS pilots...EVERYONE is leaving, even the most staunch union supporters,...so what does THAT say about the future? Yeah, let them keep leaving then accuse everyone of not joining in to help. They KEEP joining in...they just FLEE when the see what is REALLY going on. GET IT?!!!!!
:bomb:

Nope you aren't Floptions management. As retarded as Floptions management is dude, you make them look like fvcking rocket scientist. What a Mooron you are.:laugh:

 

[Voice Of Reason]

...back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Nope you aren't Floptions management. As retarded as Floptions management is dude, you make them look like fvcking rocket scientist. What a Mooron you are.:laugh:

O.M.G.
There are so many ironies in SilverSurfer's post, I wouldn't even know where to begin....
Yes, indeed hilarious. :laugh:

------------------------------------------
...and just in case these morons are cluttering the thread so the FlexJet guys don't see what is really going on, how about a refresher (by popular request, of course):

TWO meetings? To negotiate??? Shouldn't there have been at LEAST that many going on already? My gahd, this "contract" will appear approx 2108 won't it? What in the H*** have those lawyers been doing?
Oh yeah...focusing on the NetJets IBB, then moving on to start the bs all over again with FlexJet. It's like "Groundhog Day" at IBT...guess the FLOPS pilots will get lost in the shuffle while IBT keeps that "carrot" dangling so the pilots will keep sending those pointless dues in. GET ON THE BALL, this is insane with seemingly no progress. In fact, the job is worse now than EVER before It's like kiddies fighting in the sandbox. Enough of the BS get those lawyers in there to stop this company from showing the world how lazy they are. They must be getting a great laugh at how they can violate any number of Labor laws, reduce pay and benefits on a DAILY basis, run an operation meant for 1000 pilots with 560, and IBT lawyers sit back and pocket dues to do NOTHING but working on bring more into the tangled web of worthlessness. Nice work (not) by the thugs AND this sh*tty company.

BTW... how come the lawyers haven't started working on something even a braindead law student could, and get people's OVERTIME PAID! That would be a START. What labor law concurs with forcing OT then NOT paying and saying "Oh we'll give you a day or 2 off, and if we don't get to it we'll pay you NEXT YEAR sometime." WTF??????? If the allegedly existing union lawyers can't even start with THAT...a "gimme" what the heck CAN they do????
Seems like only the IBT PAID posters on here (you know, the ones that accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being mgt stooges) are the ONLY ones with any seeming faith of anything happening for FLOPS pilots...EVERYONE is leaving, even the most staunch union supporters,...so what does THAT say about the future? Yeah, let them keep leaving then accuse everyone of not joining in to help. They KEEP joining in...they just FLEE when the see what is REALLY going on. GET IT?!!!!!
:bomb:

 

[Galaxy]

Voice of Anger....

I don't think you are mgt. I think you are one pissed off pilot.
You have a right to be as the S twins treat everyone in their path like dirt.
Lawyers for the IBT-Should they be doing more?? Like what? Your union dues can only go so far as not eveyone seems to be paying-let them do the job they are supposed to do like help in negotiating a contract. By filing lawsuits that will take longer to come to an end than the first contract, it is useless. My suggestion to you is first-look for another job with a more reputable company and start enjoying your job again. Many have done just that and it seems to be the best option. Pilots are leaving as well as customers because the FLOPS brand has been destroyed by the S twins mgt style. Do you really want to stay in that environment? If you choose to stay dig in your heels and trust in your MEC and Union staff and do exactly what the union asks of you. Suck it up! NJA ate dirt for 4 plus years without a current contract but at least they had the old one the company had to abide by. You have nothing FLOPS have to abide by they prove that with every email. Things did not change at NJA until the company saw the pilot force unite and they were ready to help put the chains on the doors and shut it down for good. Now they are the leader in the industry. You should take the same attitude towards FLOPS- get your fellow pilots to go along with you and become mgts worst nightmare. The safest, most educated pilot within the ranks.
Some feel concerned that by putting FLOPS out of business is bad for pilots.. WHY??? The customers of FLOPS will not go back to the airlines. They will just find another company to provide them a service. So, you will always have a job-just not necessarily FLOPS so don't worry. The owners do not care one bean about your labor relation. They just want to get from A to B. When a labor dispute disrupts them from doing the A to B thing they will not fight for you. They will complain to mgt then likely sue and leave the company. That is the only thing the S twins will understand-the numbers. You know it and I know it. So arguing about it gets all of us nowhere. With the name Voice of Reason I am sure you can reason with this.
Forced overtime, is it the unions lawyers job to fight for that? I would call the Ohio state labor board and see what they have to say about that first. Here is their info.
Good Luck

Galaxy
State Employment Relations Board
65 East State Street, Suite 1200
Columbus, Ohio 43215-4213

Phone: (614) 644-8573
FAX: (614) 466-3074

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Keep your friends close and your competition closer....

My suggestion to you is first-look for another job with a more reputable company and start enjoying your job again. Many have done just that and it seems to be the best option. Pilots are leaving as well as customers because the FLOPS brand has been destroyed by the S twins mgt style. Do you really want to stay in that environment?
Some feel concerned that by putting FLOPS out of business is bad for pilots.. WHY??? The customers of FLOPS will not go back to the airlines. They will just find another company to provide them a service. So, you will always have a job-just not necessarily FLOPS so don't worry.

Thanks, Galaxy, for your maturity in being able to present an opposing view without the iq of 10 or immature taunts of the uneducated few who are unable to express themselves in a literate manner.
I must point out, however, that you have proved my point all along, which was that this entire "organization" under the guise of altruistic "help" from NetJets...was merely a means of destroying the competition.
Congrats, tied neck and neck with Mikey S in the race to obliterate a once thriving company with happy pilots.
:erm:

 

[Galaxy]

Voice of Reason,
Believe me when I say I share your pain. I also used to be happy at FLOPS but then things changed, then again, and again. Change is a way of life-some for the better and some for the worse. The former CEO of FLOPS once gave me a CD called Who Moved My Cheese. It is a great story of change. I highly suggest it to you. I don't believe in any NJA conspiracy theory with babbling bob or anyone else. FLOPS has never been in competition with NJA. FLOPS has and always will attract the Bargain Basement Millionaire. Just remember what happened to the dot com'ers. KR sold a cash cow to pay them out. The real players have and always will be elsewhere. I think Raytheon repeatdly makes poor choices in mgt. Their own CEO was caught plagerising (sp?). Then came whats his name-the dork that wasted all the money (on himself and his 50 VP friends)-then the S twins that cut the place to its knees. In fact read the book from Gordon Bethune Worst to First. You will laugh when you look back and see all the things Shawn tried is another plagerism attempt at mgt that worked at Continetal. Guess what, FLOPS isnt an airline and the business model or mgt style will never work here. The place sucks 100 fold now. Will it be great when and if a contract is in place? Doubt it- even NJA filed a bunch of grievences. Fact is I don't know if you voted for the IBT or not but who cares-they are in and they are doing a better job than some in house company union FOPA could ever do. Life would be even worse without someone keeping the S twins in check from doing more to the pilots. You had a chance to vote back then and you still have that chance today. Except today you vote with your feet. Go get a better job. It isn't hard to do. FLOPS can't even attract the low time guys anymore so what does that say about the reputation for a company you serve. Many say the pilots were there first, and why should they leave. Why?? Because the customers are leaving.....When was the last time you flew an owner or even a card holder that was actually paying for the flight and not a comp due to disservice that was happy? The writing has been on the wall the day Sh@tface said FLOPS is good stepping stone in your career and babbling bob said "I didn't come here to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic". No, He came to throw the deck chair overboard so you have no where to sit and make sure the elite crew had their own life raft and watch the boat slowly go down. Do you really want to be the last on off the boat? Stop being angry and take control and move on.
Peace

Galaxy

 

[Voice Of Reason]

...considering my avatar...

The former CEO of FLOPS once gave me a CD called Who Moved My Cheese. It is a great story of change. I highly suggest it to you.

You're joking, right? :erm:

 

[Galaxy]

You're joking, right? :erm:

Actually, unless your avatar is one of those nice girls I couldn't give a sanjay. I hardly look at em.

But now that you make me draw atention to it.....I see it-ahhhh. It actually looked like spongebob or something. I just know it didn't have bOObs.

So being a fan of the book of change......Ahhhh make the change....
Good luck-

 

[Voice Of Reason]

re: Keep your friends close and your competition closer....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy My suggestion to you is first-look for another job with a more reputable company and start enjoying your job again. Many have done just that and it seems to be the best option. Pilots are leaving as well as customers because the FLOPS brand has been destroyed by the S twins mgt style. Do you really want to stay in that environment?
Some feel concerned that by putting FLOPS out of business is bad for pilots.. WHY??? The customers of FLOPS will not go back to the airlines. They will just find another company to provide them a service. So, you will always have a job-just not necessarily FLOPS so don't worry.

Thanks, Galaxy, for your maturity in being able to present an opposing view without the iq of 10 or immature taunts of the uneducated few who are unable to express themselves in a literate manner.
I must point out, however, that you have proved my point all along, which was that this entire "organization" under the guise of altruistic "help" from NetJets...was merely a means of destroying the competition.
Congrats, tied neck and neck with Mikey S in the race to obliterate a once thriving company with happy pilots.
:erm:

So, since the union stance is just that everyone should just quit, does that mean our apparently "unused" dues will be refunded when we do?

 

[tailhook]

Funny thing is... NetJets management came out with the latest IBB on their own. Interesting to see what a little forceful tactic achieves in the long run. Management needed to pay their pilots industry best, they just didnt know it prior to the union's intervention.

Voice if for some reason you are a pilot for options, why havent you left? There are so many jobs in the industry it shouldnt be hard for an upstanding pilot willing to bash on his own to find a job in this industry. Well good luck my friend!

To the rest of you who do pay your dues, Thank you!

Boy you mouthpieces are pieces of work.
No FOPA because everyone is leaving thanks to you worthless getting NOWHERE with our dues GOONS. You and management should be proud of what you've both done to ruin the company...and NetJets...congrats on using our own dues to help make you that much closer to a monopoly. Of course when that does happen, your contract RE-negotiation won't be so temporarily "fruitful" as at the moment.

 

[Galaxy]

So, since the union stance is just that everyone should just quit, does that mean our apparently "unused" dues will be refunded when we do?

Well my stance is pro 1108. I just don't need to beat you over the head with it. I figure you are a big boy you can decide for yourself.
I don't even know why you are concerning yourself about dues with your stance with the IBT. I doubt you have sent a nickel to them so you have nothing to lose. My dues was up to date every month since the begining when they were not required. It is my money and I felt I spent it wisely.
My opinion on leaving is just that my opinion. Is FLOPS something you really want to fight for or are you just afraid of change? I was never one to agree that it would be months for a contract I knew it would take years. Even if they threw the money at you tomorrow we are humans and it is sometimes easy to forgive but always hard to forget the things that were done to us. So would life be any easier for pilots or mgt? Doubt it....You don't know what HIG paid for FLOPS but I can bet it was less than the company assets.
Bottom line is FLOPS has become the bottom feeder of Fracs-you know and I know it. Contract or no contract it will forever suck. The easiest plan for all is find a job elsewhere. Oh and if you plan to go to NJA it is always good to be current on your dues..

 

[SilverSurfer]

So, since the union stance is just that everyone should just quit, does that mean our apparently "unused" dues will be refunded when we do? [/B]

Dude you continue to amaze me with your lack of understanding of the issues you attempt to raise on this board. You have no clue of what you speak or you are regurgitating this same crap in a weak attempt to discredit the work that our union is doing. In either case your post paint you as uninformed about how the process works and what our union is doing.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Obsessed with every post I make much? Not into "surfers," Butt

Dude you continue to amaze me with your lack of understanding of the issues you attempt to raise on this board. You have no clue of what you speak or you are regurgitating this same crap in a weak attempt to discredit the work that our union is doing. In either case your post paint you as uninformed about how the process works and what our union is doing.

So you're suggesting that the union is NOT saying that pilots should quit? Funny, that's not what they've said here...Perhaps it is YOU that doesn't know what is going on...too busy telling pointed anecdotes on public boards to get other guys fired, I guess.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Put up or shut up

So you're suggesting that the union is NOT saying that pilots should quit? Funny, that's not what they've said here...Perhaps it is YOU that doesn't know what is going on...too busy telling pointed anecdotes on public boards to get other guys fired, I guess.

OK dude show me one communication from anyone in the union leadership that has told our pilots to quit. Just one. You are the one that has specialized in anecdotal statements, baseless accusations, and distortion of or a complete lack of the facts.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

a needed reality check for delusional minor players

Bottom line is FLOPS has become the bottom feeder of Fracs-you know and I know it. Contract or no contract it will forever suck. The easiest plan for all is find a job elsewhere. Oh and if you plan to go to NJA it is always good to be current on your dues..

NJA would be the last place I would ever go...the point is to move up, not laterally between fractionals which fluctuate year to year between who is the top paid, and who is not...everything cycles. Anyone leaving the fracs needs to have a LONG TERM plan with regard to career advancement, and flying little planes and being gone for an entire week at a time, is NOT something people want to do when they reach 50 (unless they have the entire rest of the MONTH off). I don't sacrifice the long term for short-term, short sighted, lateral "goals."
Ever wonder why the NJA guys STILL have to be on the boards 24/7 to convince everyone how "great" they have it, and how much better they think their job is than anywhere else? For starters:
- The IBB is NOT as great as they are trying to convince people, or it would not be necessary for every single one of them to insert "overtime" into the equation in discussions about what they made (which, in itself is the most tacky ill-bred trait one can imagine)
- Deep down, while they are PROJECTING about guys who they feel only have "egos that need the big jets," it is like a billboard to the world how envious THEY really are, because if they weren't it wouldn't occur to them to CARE what others want to do.
- The trophy major guys they managed to get there for whatever reason, are the very limited EXCEPTION, not the rule, so there goes that... why ARE they such a trophy for NJA anyways? Because it helps massage THEIR egos that someone left a better long term career to go to theirs.
I would venture to guess that there are more people at NJA (referencing those with higher flight time) that have blemishes on their records and/or lack of a degree that have affected their ABILITY to go to the "MAJORS." From what is left you can then factor in those with ex-wives and / or excess children that can NOT make the brief initial sacrifices required in starting with the majors.
You can all toot your own horns all you want, but you're only impressing those with much lower time who aren't really fully in the know...or those similarly limited in their ability to advance. It is a decent job compared to your category, but like baseball, you can gloat all you want about your minor league status, but deep down you'll always wonder "what if" you got to the majors, especially now that they are hiring again. I might think about a fractional again if a major laid me off...but that would only be a last resort if there were no real corp gigs around (people that can afford whole planes and their own ops/management teams)...but I would still have that golden seniority number as opposed to a dead end frac job that's so-so until the contract expires and the next big jet pass idea comes up and wipes out the current idea of frac ownership.
Just the facts, now let your little egos flame away about how great you'll have it "forever and ever", lol.:beer: The ONLY ones you can claim a "one up" on for the MOMENT is FLOPS so you go at it all you can (even though you guys were the real brunt of jokes not long ago)..and that is only because NJA pilots have been on a MISSION to MAKE it that way and make the widespread opinion of FLOPS what it now is. The only reason these mgt scumbags continue to take and take is due to YOUR incessant antagonizing and the little boy fights between them and your mouthpieces at IBT. You CREATED the problems at FLOPS, then proceeded to ruin the whole company's rep...your "brothers'" included.

 

[Galaxy]

Holy Crap Voice of Anger.
Take a chill pill. After reading that rant of anger I imagine you have huge blue veins on your forehead.
I didn't tell you to go to NJA I said IF you plan to go......
You said it yourself..everyone is hiring..even the good pt 91 operators and the majors. The union will not tell you to get another jobl, they want the membership. When the training director pulls you aside and tells you if you can find a better job go for it. Then even watching the union board-seeing all the "See Ya Later" threads or even watching the ever dwindling senoirty list or heard the complaints of the owners that you fly have you gotton the hint? Or do you need it spelled out? So ahhhhhhhh
GO GET ANOTHER JOB
And quit yer bitchin'-Johnny Rebel
:beer:

 

[SilverSurfer]

Put up or shut up

So you're suggesting that the union is NOT saying that pilots should quit? Funny, that's not what they've said here...Perhaps it is YOU that doesn't know what is going on...too busy telling pointed anecdotes on public boards to get other guys fired, I guess.

OK dude show me one communication from anyone in the union leadership that has told our pilots to quit. Just one. You are the one that has specialized in anecdotal statements, baseless accusations, and distortion of or a complete lack of the facts.

Still out there reading all those Union communications to find that one you were referring to. Hey, save yourself some time, just make it up like you have done everything else.:laugh:

 

[realityman]

VOR,

It's been the widespread mission of the NJA pilots to ruin the reputation of FLOPS?

Ahhhhhh........maybe stopping your meds at this point in time wasn't such a good idea after all.

That has got to be some of the most paranoid conspiracy crap I've heard since that movie with Mel Gibson, what was it, oh yeah, Conspiracy Theory!

Up until that last post I was willing to have reasoned debates with you on these subjects. But, egads man! Lighten up a bit.

I assure you, the vast majority of pilots at NJA, as well as our entire union leadership structure, have got far better things to do with our time than trying to destroy the reputation of a company that, from the very beginning, didn't have a good reputation.

As for 1108 purposely trying to take out FLOPS as a competitor, well, that completely contradicts what you were saying earlier about all they want is the dues money. I think putting all the pilots out of work at FLOPS would have a NEGATIVE effect on the bottom line of dues at 1108, now wouldn't it? So which is it? Are we trying to get as much money from you as possible? Or are we trying to put you out of business, therefore guaranteeing a large reduction in union income?

Besides, NJA doesn't need the union's help to put FLOPS under. What if NJA simply came up with a standing order that for the foreseeable future, all newhires would come from applicants currently employed at FLOPS. At a hiring rate of 300 pilots per year, how much hurt would that put on FLOPS?

VOR, you really need a vacation. And I'm not being a smarta**. Seriously, take a break from FlightInfo and at least put your thoughts in order a bit. You're not sounding very reasoned anymore.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Crickets From Voice Of Treason

So you're suggesting that the union is NOT saying that pilots should quit? Funny, that's not what they've said here...Perhaps it is YOU that doesn't know what is going on...too busy telling pointed anecdotes on public boards to get other guys fired, I guess.

OK dude show me one communication from anyone in the union leadership that has told our pilots to quit. Just one. You are the one that has specialized in anecdotal statements, baseless accusations, and distortion of or a complete lack of the facts.

This is the third time I put this question to you Voice Of Treason and all we hear is crickets. I haven't seen a single word you have posted that was factual or true, this is a simple question about your comments. Do you not stand behind your words, can you not substantiate the accusations you make, can you not support the baseless lies you post here. Come on Treason,,,, man up.

 

[Galaxy]

OK dude show me one communication from anyone in the union leadership that has told our pilots to quit. Just one. You are the one that has specialized in anecdotal statements, baseless accusations, and distortion of or a complete lack of the facts.

This is the third time I put this question to you Voice Of Treason and all we hear is crickets. I haven't seen a single word you have posted that was factual or true, this is a simple question about your comments. Do you not stand behind your words, can you not substantiate the accusations you make, can you not support the baseless lies you post here. Come on Treason,,,, man up.

Silver-
He gets the QUIT ideas from me. I will take responsibility for those words. NEVER have I said that the union feels pilots should QUIT. I have only said it was my personal opinion. I have posted this many times for him and all to see. I want to see the 1108 win the battle. However for some-they don't have it in them to endure the fight. His anger about his views of inaction from the union just continue to grow within him.
Is he a troll? Who really knows-only he knows for sure. I have read many-many of his posts-He does seem highly misinformed on alot of issues-mostly dealing with NJA-the CBA and the IBB.
My stance will remain the same-If you can't endure the fight at FLOPS or can't take the chance that there will be nothing in the end. Well, then QUIT. There are so many real flying jobs out there right now. 10 out of 10 former FLOPS pilots agree that life is better for them the DAY they left FLOPS.
I believe in the 1108 and have trust in the Union's leadership. What I don't trust is the lame mgt that sits at the top of the puzzle palace in CGF.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Voice Of treason

Silver-
He gets the QUIT ideas from me. I will take responsibility for those words. NEVER have I said that the union feels pilots should QUIT. I have only said it was my personal opinion. I have posted this many times for him and all to see. I want to see the 1108 win the battle. However for some-they don't have it in them to endure the fight. His anger about his views of inaction from the union just continue to grow within him.
Is he a troll? Who really knows-only he knows for sure. I have read many-many of his posts-He does seem highly misinformed on alot of issues-mostly dealing with NJA-the CBA and the IBB.
My stance will remain the same-If you can't endure the fight at FLOPS or can't take the chance that there will be nothing in the end. Well, then QUIT. There are so many real flying jobs out there right now. 10 out of 10 former FLOPS pilots agree that life is better for them the DAY they left FLOPS.
I believe in the 1108 and have trust in the Union's leadership. What I don't trust is the lame mgt that sits at the top of the puzzle palace in CGF.

He absolutely is misinformed and all of his post are filled with inaccuracies and out right false statements. The worst part of it is that when his lack of knowledge or his false statement are pointed out to him, he doesn't give a sh!t. Regardless of what his actual intentions are, the end result of them is to spread FUD. As such he becomes a tool of management and is working against those of us that are here to fight the fight to the end.

The time for middle of the road has come and gone. Any pilot at Floptions is either with us or against us, there is no more in between.