Open Letter to B19

[GerryG]

B19,

I took a look back through your posting history. As of this writing you have 175 posts dating back to May of 2006, some two months after the Flight Options Pilots voted for representation. While the fact that your first two posts deal with Flight Options might lead me to draw the conclusion that you are only here to confront the 1108 at Flight Options, I also note that the following several posts you made referenced Avantair. I think an analysis of why and under what circumstances a person joins a fight (or a debate) can tell us a lot about them.

So I'm left with the unavoidable conclusion (in-spite of my former posted assertions) that you are in fact here to undermine the Flight Options Pilots negotiations - through FUD - in an attempt to ultimately prevent a vote for representation at Avatair. You must know that another property represented by the 1108, which successfully negotiates a contract under the auspices of the 1108, will invariably lead to an expansion of the union movement (specifically the Teamsters 1108) throughout the Fractional industry. A valid concern for you I'm sure. It is undeniable that when the Flight Options pilots negotiate their own contract, other pilots, employed within the fractional industry will then have incontrovertible proof that representation by the 1108 is advantageous. If you can only help prevent the Flight Options pilots from achieving their contract, you can continue to portray the NetJets Pilots their union and it’s successes as an anomaly. If the Flight Options pilots are successful in their quest that argument will evaporate immediately wouldn’t it?

Also as you have often said, "I love my non-union airline" and I'm sure you do, considering you currently have unilateral control over your pilots, I do not doubt you have a lot at stake financially in preventing the sequence of events I describe.

I think your pilots will inevitably choose representation it’s only a matter of when. I'm also certain the Flight Options pilots will achieve an industry standard first contract regardless of your attempted intervention. If you want to prevent your pilots from unionizing, I suggest that you focus your attention on providing them with a quality of life and a sense of respect they can be happy with. Based on your past comments here, I doubt you will demonstrate the foresight necessary to make that decision. You clearly hate pilots, at least those that have the balls to stand up for themselves and I'm sure you will viscously step on any among your pilot group who show any sign of organizational leadership.

You see that will ultimately be your downfall. What you don't understand is that standard union-busting tactics don't typically work too well with pilots. These tactics were designed to bust grocery store clerk’s unions. Pilots are typically way too type-A and generally too smart to fall for the type of rhetoric you have been advised to disseminate.

But it's ok; you are in good company, when it comes to listening to and heeding the advice of attorneys, ill-equipped to deal with pilots and the peculiarities of the RLA. Just ask your friends RTS and SMS.

 

[skyismyoffice]

Nice post.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19,

I took a look back through your posting history. As of this writing you have 175 posts dating back to May of 2006, some two months after the Flight Options Pilots voted for representation. While the fact that your first two posts deal with Flight Options might lead me to draw the conclusion that you are only here to confront the 1108 at Flight Options, I also note that the following several posts you made referenced Avantair. I think an analysis of why and under what circumstances a person joins a fight (or a debate) can tell us a lot about them.

So I'm left with the unavoidable conclusion (in-spite of my former posted assertions) that you are in fact here to undermine the Flight Options Pilots negotiations - through FUD - in an attempt to ultimately prevent a vote for representation at Avatair. You must know that another property represented by the 1108, which successfully negotiates a contract under the auspices of the 1108, will invariably lead to an expansion of the union movement (specifically the Teamsters 1108) throughout the Fractional industry. A valid concern for you I'm sure. It is undeniable that when the Flight Options pilots negotiate their own contract, other pilots, employed within the fractional industry will then have incontrovertible proof that representation by the 1108 is advantageous. If you can only help prevent the Flight Options pilots from achieving their contract, you can continue to portray the NetJets Pilots their union and it’s successes as an anomaly. If the Flight Options pilots are successful in their quest that argument will evaporate immediately wouldn’t it?

Also as you have often said, "I love my non-union airline" and I'm sure you do, considering you currently have unilateral control over your pilots, I do not doubt you have a lot at stake financially in preventing the sequence of events I describe.

I think your pilots will inevitably choose representation it’s only a matter of when. I'm also certain the Flight Options pilots will achieve an industry standard first contract regardless of your attempted intervention. If you want to prevent your pilots from unionizing, I suggest that you focus your attention on providing them with a quality of life and a sense of respect they can be happy with. Based on your past comments here, I doubt you will demonstrate the foresight necessary to make that decision. You clearly hate pilots, at least those that have the balls to stand up for themselves and I'm sure you will viscously step on any among your pilot group who show any sign of organizational leadership.

You see that will ultimately be your downfall. What you don't understand is that standard union-busting tactics don't typically work too well with pilots. These tactics were designed to bust grocery store clerk’s unions. Pilots are typically way too type-A and generally too smart to fall for the type of rhetoric you have been advised to disseminate.

But it's ok; you are in good company, when it comes to listening to and heeding the advice of attorneys, ill-equipped to deal with pilots and the peculiarities of the RLA. Just ask your friends RTS and SMS.

Dude, let me make something perfectly clear. There wasn't a second shooter on the grassy knoll and Elvis is really dead. There is no conspiricy. I don't like unions because of what their actions have done to my career. I have a right to speak about my experiences. My specific reason for posting is because I wanted to tell about the dark side of unions for those that only listen to union supporters. Unions only blame management and never accept any blame. When management accepts blame and steps down, unions call it a victory. Never once in the decades I've been in aviation have I ever seen a union admit a mistake and willingly make an adjustment for it like many airline CEOs have.

In the beginning of my posts, I stand by one simple sentence. "Be careful what you ask for." Two layoffs for me, divorces and suicide from friends during a union action secured my opinion forever about unions. The divorces were pilot union members, and the suicide would have never happened if the union action had not occured. It makes no difference that I'm financially better off, or that I have a better job now that is specifically within my chosen field. The career disruption(s) really sucked and I didn't ask for them. I have a right to let others know that it can happen. Furthermore, I have a right to state that a union action can't happen if a union isn't on the property.

176 posts from me, and at least 10 times that many defending it.
The union membership doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[FR8DOG777]

b-19

Nice post gerry. I figured out along time ago he ain't TYLER. He is still not doing any of us any favors to fight for equal rights/pay/benefits/treatment. He is a goon with something to benefit from our downfall. Irregardless flops will not continue down the path it is headed. It does not take a genious to figure out how much longer they can last doing business the way they do. You can't treat and pay people so poorly and expect to run a successfull business. I lack any respect for the likes of Bob Tyler but this clown is not him.

 

[FR8DOG777]

b-19

Nice post gerry. I figured out along time ago he ain't TYLER. He is still not doing any of us any favors to fight for equal rights/pay/benefits/treatment. He is a goon with something to benefit from our downfall. Irregardless flops will not continue down the path it is headed. It does not take a genius to figure out how much longer they can last doing business the way they do. You can't treat and pay people so poorly and expect to run a successful business. I lack any respect for the likes of Bob Tyler but this clown is not him.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Awesome words my brother

Brother "G" that was a awesome post and I think you may have hit bone on some of those slashes. "Bob"/B19 seemed to take exception to much of what you had to say. As we have seen so many times in the past, the truth is hard to hide from and will always stand up under the most intense denial and scrutiny.

"Bob" take your meds.

 

[Whoosh!]

Dude, let me make something perfectly clear. There wasn't a second shooter on the grassy knoll and Elvis is really dead. There is no conspiricy. I don't like unions because of what their actions have done to my career. I have a right to speak about my experiences. My specific reason for posting is because I wanted to tell about the dark side of unions for those that only listen to union supporters.

"Dude", you certainly do have a right to say what you want. By now, everyone and their brother knows what your freaking opinion is. Maybe you haven't noticed but people are sick of hearing it. You've said your peace. Go find an anti-union board to post on and make some friends. You should take clues from things like "nobody cares what your opinion is, B19" or how just about every single post in response to yours is someone telling you you're an idiot.

Unions only blame management and never accept any blame. When management accepts blame and steps down, unions call it a victory. Never once in the decades I've been in aviation have I ever seen a union admit a mistake and willingly make an adjustment for it like many airline CEOs have.

Well, you'll be sad to know that your "decades" spent in whatever sector of aviation you're in have provided you with a pathetically narrow view of the industry.

In the beginning of my posts, I stand by one simple sentence. "Be careful what you ask for." Two layoffs for me, divorces and suicide from friends during a union action secured my opinion forever about unions. The divorces were pilot union members, and the suicide would have never happened if the union action had not occured.

Sorry to hear that your life has sucked and you blame it on a union... we should all get really nervous now and crawl back into our holes and be thankful that we even get to go to work.

How much of the airline industry is unionized again? Have you forgotten that a union is formed willingly by the people in it? And, that the vast majority of them support it and are happy it's there? Also, I suppose these suicides and divorces hardly ever happen outside of union shops, right?

It makes no difference that I'm financially better off, or that I have a better job now that is specifically within my chosen field. The career disruption(s) really sucked and I didn't ask for them. I have a right to let others know that it can happen. Furthermore, I have a right to state that a union action can't happen if a union isn't on the property.

You let everyone know what you think in your last 175 posts. You can stop now.

176 posts from me, and at least 10 times that many defending it. The union membership doth protest too much, methinks.

You don'tthinks too hard otherwise you would get the point from all those responses.

 

[fischman]

There wasn't a second shooter on the grassy knoll .

Prove it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Who the hell says "doth" in a sentence anyway?

Ask ANY NetJets pilot where we would be today without a Union here.

I'm willing to bet that the company would have a few positive things to say about the Pilot Union too in regards to ways we have enhanced their business model.

B19, your opinions are not applicable to our situation here at NetJets. They are out dated and immaterial.

Thank you for attempting to validate your anti Union campaign here though. You failed, but thanks all the same.

 

[fischman]

Unions only blame management and never accept any blame. When management accepts blame and steps down, unions call it a victory.

Prove it.

 

[fischman]

In the beginning of my posts, I stand by one simple sentence. "Be careful what you ask for." Two layoffs for me, divorces and suicide from friends during a union action secured my opinion forever about unions. The divorces were pilot union members, and the suicide would have never happened if the union action had not occured. It makes no difference that I'm financially better off, or that I have a better job now that is specifically within my chosen field. The career disruption(s) really sucked and I didn't ask for them. I have a right to let others know that it can happen. Furthermore, I have a right to state that a union action can't happen if a union isn't on the property.

It is good to have a scapegoat. Good for you!!!

http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/delusional-disorder

 

[B19 Flyer]

Brother "G" that was a awesome post and I think you may have hit bone on some of those slashes. "Bob"/B19 seemed to take exception to much of what you had to say. As we have seen so many times in the past, the truth is hard to hide from and will always stand up under the most intense denial and scrutiny.

"Bob" take your meds.

I only said that there isn't a conspiracy, why I posted and the valid reason(s) I don't like unions. That is taking exception?

I'm on the floor laughing :laugh: that somebody took time to go through my posts. If you look deep enough you might find my connection with Amelia Earhart.

Nothing better to do?

 

[B19 Flyer]

It is good to have a scapegoat. Good for you!!!

http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/delusional-disorder

For me it's a little hard to take a guy seriously when he uses Larry, Moe and Curley as an icon.

 

[dime line]

I only said that there isn't a conspiracy, why I posted and the valid reason(s) I don't like unions. That is taking exception?

I'm on the floor laughing :laugh: that somebody took time to go through my posts.

If you look deep enough you might find my connection with Amelia Earhart.

Nothing better to do?

While your on the can at night right? Is that your connection?

 

[dime line]

For me it's a little hard to take a guy seriously when he uses Larry, Moe and Curley as an icon.

No Icon we have those three here at FLOPS, their real people, you didn't know?

 

[fischman]

For me it's a little hard to take a guy seriously when he uses Larry, Moe and Curley as an icon.

Touché

 

[FLYLOW22]

Larry, Moe and Curly were consumate professionals who would have done much better finaincially had the studios not taken advantage of them.

Hmmm. Maybe that's the reason there is now a Screen Actors Guild?

 

[nomore]

Moe Larry and Curley

Don't be dissin' Moe Larry and Curley. Consumate professionals, cutting edge science that still is debated ie Nature vs Nurture were explored in many of their vignettes. I can't believe a red blooded American would think less of a person because Moe Larry and Curley was thier icon. Besides what a specious argument against the points Fischman made. And for the record I wish you guys would join me and put B-19 to your ignore list. The guy obviously doesn't believe in Democracy.

 

[pilotpat]

I've really enjoyed having this B-19 character on my ignore list...next up - that Bogart chump...


There ~ that was easy!!:uzi:

 

[B19 Flyer]

I've really enjoyed having this B-19 character on my ignore list...next up - that Bogart chump...


There ~ that was easy!!:uzi:

Thanx, that makes it easier for me. Have a nice day!

 

[pilotpat]

See how cool that is?!? :laugh: All I see is:

Remove user from ignore list
B19 Flyer This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list.

:smash:

 

[fischman]

I'm a victim of cirumstance!!!

 

[B19 Flyer]

See how cool that is?!? :laugh: All I see is:

Remove user from ignore list
B19 Flyer This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list.

:smash:

Very cool. You aren't my target audience and are already tainted!

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Just curious, B19, what sort of perverted pleasure do you get it trying to spout of your views to an environment in which you know your gonna catch ******************** for it?? Are you just demented or a masochist?

I'm very happy with my union, I was 100% not with my previous union. I'm sorry you didn't get to experience the satisfaction I have paying my hard earned coin to a collective of kick ass individuals who I am sure are out there to cover my over opinionated ass every time I'm out in a cockpit, and who are assuring me as long as I dont screw up, I'm putting my kids through college and keeping 'em well fed and warm.

There are many others here that share my opinion. If you don't like it, as someone else said, there's plenty more sections that don't have pro union groups here, go spread your misery with them.

Be gone with you, sir. Your entertainment purposes have waned, and you are no longer welcome.

 

[GerryG]

Dude, let me make something perfectly clear. There wasn't a second shooter on the grassy knoll and Elvis is really dead. There is no conspiricy. I don't like unions because of what their actions have done to my career. I have a right to speak about my experiences. My specific reason for posting is because I wanted to tell about the dark side of unions for those that only listen to union supporters. Unions only blame management and never accept any blame. When management accepts blame and steps down, unions call it a victory. Never once in the decades I've been in aviation have I ever seen a union admit a mistake and willingly make an adjustment for it like many airline CEOs have.

In the beginning of my posts, I stand by one simple sentence. "Be careful what you ask for." Two layoffs for me, divorces and suicide from friends during a union action secured my opinion forever about unions. The divorces were pilot union members, and the suicide would have never happened if the union action had not occured. It makes no difference that I'm financially better off, or that I have a better job now that is specifically within my chosen field. The career disruption(s) really sucked and I didn't ask for them. I have a right to let others know that it can happen. Furthermore, I have a right to state that a union action can't happen if a union isn't on the property.

176 posts from me, and at least 10 times that many defending it.
The union membership doth protest too much, methinks.

Union-busting is a multi billion dollar a year industry. I don't think that concluding someone who chooses to spend as much time on this message board as you do might have an ulterior motive, makes me a conspiracy theorist.

Look I had a bad experience with Tequila once (well more than once) but you won't find me on the Cuervo website making 176 post about the experience.

Face it, you are hear for a reason. I think we all know what that reason is. It will be interesting after we have our contract to watch you suddenly disappear, just as those of your ilk (I love the word "ilk" don't you?) did after NJ got theirs. As for protesting to much... right back at ya.

 

[dime line]

Very cool. You aren't my target audience and are already tainted!

Im tainted toooo

 

[B19 Flyer]

Union-busting is a multi billion dollar a year industry. I don't think that concluding someone who chooses to spend as much time on this message board as you do might have an ulterior motive, makes me a conspiracy theorist.

Look I had a bad experience with Tequila once (well more than once) but you won't find me on the Cuervo website making 176 post about the experience.

Face it, you are hear for a reason. I think we all know what that reason is. It will be interesting after we have our contract to watch you suddenly disappear, just as those of your ilk (I love the word "ilk" don't you?) did after NJ got theirs. As for protesting to much... right back at ya.

You can take the conspiracy route, I'll take the truthful route. I've told my reason, and there ain't none other.

Are new members advised that their strike benefits probably won't cover the cost of cobra health insurance payments during a work action? That's usually a very ugly surprise.

 

[Guitar Guy]

So what airline and what fractional did you fly for, B19?

 

[Ben Dover FLOPS]

Are new members advised that their strike benefits probably won't cover the cost of cobra health insurance payments during a work action? That's usually a very ugly surprise.

You said it yourself, B19. When was the last time there was a work action in the airline industry?

The benefits of our Union far outway the detriments. Our new members will realize that first hand when they start dealing with the likes of Shawn, Sanjay, Bobby T. , Timmy M., Bobby R., Billy B. and company. The harm that they project upon their employees is far worse than the possibility of a work action.

Also, did you ever consider the fact that maybe your friend committed suicide because of just that: he was your friend? With friends like you, who needs enemas?

 

[SilverSurfer]

Fess Up

I only said that there isn't a conspiracy, why I posted and the valid reason(s) I don't like unions. That is taking exception?

I'm on the floor laughing :laugh: that somebody took time to go through my posts. If you look deep enough you might find my connection with Amelia Earhart.

Nothing better to do?

"Bob"

We have seen you go on and on about that great operation that you now work for that is supposedly non union. Many of us have suggested you validate how wonderful life with out unions is by simply saying who you do work for and allowing us all to see what this utopia is. The aviation community is very small and the relative content or discontent at your operations will let us all know just how green things are on that non union side of the fence. Come on "Bob" put money where your mouth is.