OPEC accuses U.S. on oil prices

[FlickerFade]

Money rules Washington.

Money rules this country, thank God! We are capitalist. If we weren't we wouldn't be the envy of the world in so many areas. Aviation for one! Health care for two. We have the best health care in the world, infinitely better than Canada or the UK. Innovation is where our country is so dominant because of the profit motive.

Now to say that the health care issue is a one-issue problem is too simplistic. It's government regulation (costs hundreds of millions of dollars to bring a drug to market), it's lawyers (who don't produce anything, and just look for the next pot of money to go after), it's Chicken ess politicians who want to demagogue for votes vs. find balances solutions, it's people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions (and pay for a new car before they pay for health insurance), it's insurance companies (who live too much for share price vs. their service), etc, etc, etc.

Any of the problems discussed here are infinitely complex.

 

[sat74]

If we weren't we wouldn't be the envy of the world in so many areas. Aviation for one! Health care for two. We have the best health care in the world, infinitely better than Canada or the UK. Innovation is where our country is so dominant because of the profit motive.

I hope you dont really think this way! This is just another ignorant "America is the best" statement that does not work anymore. We might have been #1 at many things, but not anymore!!! Not even close!!!

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rank Country
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis

 

[414Flyer]

If you actually believe that quality and accessablility of health care here is 37th in the world, I would like to sell you a Palm tree grove outside of Minot.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

If you actually believe that quality and accessablility of health care here is 37th in the world, I would like to sell you a Palm tree grove outside of Minot.

That was quicker than I thought. OF COURSE the WHO has NO CLUE. Whatever....

 

[Dizel8]

If you actually believe that quality and accessablility of health care here is 37th in the world, I would like to sell you a Palm tree grove outside of Minot.

Qaulity, perhaps, but probably. Accesibility, not even close.

When I was overseas, more specifically northern europe, I was never worried about access or cost. Over there, good medical care was considered a basic right, not just for those who happened to have the right insurance card, but for all. It sounds crazy, but I cannot tell you how liberating that was, that your health was more important than money.

The quality in the US is very good, you get more xrays, MRI, CT scans than you can shake a stick at, but cost wise is it getting out of hand. The cost of medical care in the US is outpacing inflation by a large margin.

To protect my heart, I had a couple of glasses of red wine, otherwise, I would continue standing on my "soapbox" .

However, I should say no, I don't want to live anywhere else, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see us getting a handle on this, because status quo and watching insurance/cost of care skyroccketing, is not a solution I prefer.

 

[414Flyer]

I agree that we do have to get a handle on it, because that level of government spending, and "entitlement" programs, is going to be the biggest item in the budget before long

But rankings coming from UN and associated organizations like WHO should be taken with a grain of salt, or a few grains. Countries with socialized health care systems are automatically going to rank high on there. Do not make the mistaken of thinking WHO does not have any ideology in there.

A fair number of Europeans end up coming here for medical care, I do not hear of Americans going to Europe for medical care. Ever heard any of the horror stories about getting medical care in the UK? Look at how many French elderly died in the government run assisted living centers when it got too hot?

Frances medical system is on the verge of going bankrupt, Sweden takes an automatic 10 percent of your gross wages for medical. Just because you hear nice stories, and a fat limosine socialist says how bad it is, doesnt always mean the grass is actually greener everywhere else.

Of course we can make improvements, and we must. I just dont recall anything being cheaper because the government gets involved more.

 

[sat74]

It astonishes me how Americans continue to believe we are the best at everything! Stop being so ignorant and pull your head of the sand and look around. Having pride is one thing, but being stupid is what is doing us in!

 

[FlickerFade]

It astonishes me how Americans continue to believe we are the best at everything! Stop being so ignorant and pull your head of the sand and look around. Having pride is one thing, but being stupid is what is doing us in!

It's amazing to me how filled with self-loathing SOME Americans are.

Let's ask who manufactures the prescription drugs used around the world? Whose operating systems run their computers? Who invented the technologies that these countries use in their hospitals? Who is the manufacturer of of the anti-viral med's saving millions of lives a year in Africa? Probably more than likely the answer to these questions is the good old USA.

What country invites the most immigration? Dominates word culture? USA?

Is the USA perfect or without fault or "the best" at everything? Nope. Case one would be the arrogance of the US automobile industry who lost out to Japan mainly because they built POS cars. The loss of these jobs began when US auto companies and workers built inferior products.

Arrogance had Boeing try to rip off the US Air Force with the 767 tanker 5 years ago. Then tried to offer up the same '80's technology in 2008.

But all in all, around the world, you'll find the best innovation of all in the USA. That's where people are rewarded economically for their efforts.

But, feel free not to let the door in the ass on your way across the border on your way out.

 

[Dizel8]

Let's ask who manufactures the prescription drugs used around the world?

By golly, I guess the rest of the world does not have medicine companies, certainly not the french.

Oh well, the good news is, you are paying the entire cost for many of those US drugs, the american consumer and tax payer, not the folks around the world taking xyz pill. I guess being willing to foot the bill for other folks makes you a socialist, how dreadful.

No one has said the US isn't great, it is, but we only got here because we kept trying to be better. Skyrocketing healthcare cost coupled with less and less coverage or in some cases none is not "best in class".

Certainly you can agree, not something the most powerful nation in the world, the one that put the first man on the moon, should be proud of!

But, feel free not to let the door in the ass on your way across the border on your way out.

I wonder if that is what the British said, when we decided we were unhappy with the situation.

 

[sat74]

Who is the manufacturer of of the anti-viral med's saving millions of lives a year in Africa?

India!

 

[SkiFishFly]

I hope you dont really think this way! This is just another ignorant "America is the best" statement that does not work anymore. We might have been #1 at many things, but not anymore!!! Not even close!!!

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rank Country
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis

This ranking means nothing without the data and criteria used to produce these ranks. I would bet that it was heavily weighted towards socialized medicine for all citizens. Italy number 2 - no freakin way. UK number 18. Interesting - the wait for health care proceedures there is way out of control. Their citizens are traveling to places like India to get health care becuase it is cheaper and much quicker than waiting on their very inefficient government run system in the UK.

I've lived with US Gov run medical care for 22 some years as active duty Navy( plus a couple more in retirement). For me it was pretty good because I had direct access to the flight doctor. We quickly learned how lousy the Navy care was for my family after they almost let my wife die - 30 day wait to see that specialist. Took her outside the government run medical system and she saw the coreect specialsit the next day - had a diagnosis -- treatment began and she quickly recovered. Had she waited the 30 days she probably would have died. Spent the rest of my Navy career using Tricare Standard. For those that don't know - that costs more but allows me to decide which doctor I go see and how quickly I get seen. Don't have to talk to some dumb Government administrator who is trying to keep costs down.
You idiots that want socialized medicine - go move to a country that has it.

 

[sat74]

UK number 18. Interesting - the wait for health care proceedures there is way out of control. Their citizens are traveling to places like India to get health care becuase it is cheaper and much quicker than waiting on their very inefficient government run system in the UK.

Do you have a source for this? I live in London for several years. NEVER had any problems with getting health care. I am sure there are exceptions like anywhere else, but to generalize this and say that this is the norm is misleading at best. Also, I was in Italy last year and broke my arm. Went into the hostpital and was taken care of immediately. No questions asked! The other day at home I went to the doctor for a check up. While the doctor was in-network, he refused to see me because I had not been referred by someone else. After much pleading he saw me, after a 3 hour wait and tons of paperwork and insurance checks! What a joke!

 

[Dizel8]

Much of the wait in EU is for non life threatening procedures, for eg. hip replacements, knee replacements.

There is little doubt, that EU hasn't solved all the issues and that generally they too need to do better, but they do consider medical care a human right. Cost of medical care is increasing as well, but obviously they pay through taxes, we pay through insurance.

"It is the latest look at why the U.S. spends more on healthcare than any of its European counterparts. In 2004, the year of the data the Emory study examined, the U.S. spent $6,102 per capita on healthcare -- about twice that of the Netherlands and Germany and nearly twice that of France."


"National Health Care Spending

• In 2007, health care spending in the United States reached $2.3 trillion, and was projected to reach $3 trillion in 2011.1 Health care spending is projected to reach $4.2 trillion by 2016.1
• Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.3
• In 2005, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2016.1
• Although nearly 47 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
• Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development."

I would be interested to see a breakdown of cost to the consumer, ie health care taxes vs insurance cost/deductibles?

 

[SkiFishFly]

Do you have a source for this? I live in London for several years. NEVER had any problems with getting health care. I am sure there are exceptions like anywhere else, but to generalize this and say that this is the norm is misleading at best. Also, I was in Italy last year and broke my arm. Went into the hostpital and was taken care of immediately. No questions asked! The other day at home I went to the doctor for a check up. While the doctor was in-network, he refused to see me because I had not been referred by someone else. After much pleading he saw me, after a 3 hour wait and tons of paperwork and insurance checks! What a joke!

From a CBS News article:

What's called medical tourism – patients going to a different country for either urgent or elective medical procedures – is fast becoming a worldwide, multibillion-dollar industry.

The reasons patients travel for treatment vary. Many medical tourists from the United States are seeking treatment at a quarter or sometimes even a 10th of the cost at home. From Canada, it is often people who are frustrated by long waiting times. From Great Britain, the patient can't wait for treatment by the National Health Service but also can't afford to see a physician in private practice


I find it interesting that private medical practices are expanding in the UK. (Just google UK Healthcare) Why would this be? Everyone is supposed to be covered over there....
Let me help - It is because Gov controlled healthcare is not working. Those with the financial means are going outside the system to ensure proper healthcare for themselves and their families.

 

[ifly4food]

I'm curious to know how high Americans will let gas prices go before we revolt.

Used to be $2 per gallon was the most anyone would put up with. Then it became $3. Now we're shooting for $4. Yet everyone is still driving SUVs at 80mph.

I think the oil companies are going to keep pushing it until we stop buying gas, and drastically alter our driving habits. Then they will back the price off $0.50 a gallon and leave it there.