Only have a Private & Hate College

[bobbysamd]

Hiring in one's image

It is said that those who hire, hire in their own image


What does that mean?

It means what it says. It means that those who hire, hire those who are like them.

I shouldn't have to provide this example, Yip, but I feel compelled. For years, the pilot workgroups at the majors were comprised primarily of former military pilots. Individuals from the workgroups would be picked for pilot interview boards. Which meant if a former military pilot appeared before an interview board, the board likely saw him/her as a peer because he/she was in the image - part of the "club." Compare with a civilian-only pilot, who, while completely qualified and competent, and, perhaps, with a degree, was not seen that way because he/she came from a different background. Thank goodness, the airlines are hiring more and more civilian pilots.

Exactly we do hire in our own image. We know a college degree or lack of college degree does not define a man as a person. At USA Jet like all other opened minded airlines i.e. AirTran, Spirit, JB, SWA and all the regionals do not define the presence of a piece of paper as the ultimate definition of a successful candidate. Great airlines look at the whole man concept, what does this person bring to our company.

Who do you mean by "we," kemosabe? You speak only for your company. In other words, only AirTran, Spirit, JB, SWA and all the regionals are the only great airlines??

Based on my experiences, I, for one, would argue that the regionals are not in the least bit opened-minded. Moreover, your comment that the above-named companies are the only "great" airlines is a slam against the all the others! Which, I'm sure, their pilots won't be appreciate.

There are pilots with degrees that fill that concept as well as pilots without college degrees. A great personality, a solid record of achievement, not necessarily defined by college, and a convincing desire to bring skills to our company are what will sell us on hiring a person. It is not a HR decision, they are involved in the recommendation process, but an operations board makes the decision.

Each company has its own culture and will establish its own hiring criteria. Yours, at USA Jets, is only one example. To superimpose your company's criteria on overall aviation hiring is misleading, and confusing.

I think our points fall on deaf ears . . . .

I knooow.

It's those "deaf ears" that hire.

You don't know the half of it.

 

[pilotyip]

Bobby what are you saying?

Where did you read I was imposing our hiring standards on anyone. We are talking about the possession of 4-yr degree or not. Great airlines look at the whole man concept and not the piece of paper. That is open mindedness on those airlines listed, it was not intented to be an all inclusive list. Kit says 172 out of 177 hiring do not make a 4-yr degree a hard requirement. We are talking about the possession of 4-yr degree or not. Sounds like a few readers are starting to get the picture, hang in there Bobby.

 

[Goose Egg]

Kit says 172 out of 177 hiring do not make a 4-yr degree a hard requirement.

But wouldn't the real question be how many that get hired at the respective airlines have the degree vs. how many that do not? I'd like to see a percentage, some real numbers here. I mean, it's one thing to pontificate from "on high" as it were about how unecessary a degree is for a piloting job, but it's quite another to be on the other side, a prospective employee, and trying to construct the best possible scenario for one's self to get hired. Sure, it is possible to find a good flying job without a degree. But is it likely? Is it realistic? Is it more likely that I will find a good job without a degree, or less? Which path gives me the best chance to make a living by flying an airplane? (Which is all I really care about anyway.)

Those are the real questions.

-Goose

 

[mayday1]

It's funny how many pilots think the non-aviation world is full of jobs where people are rolling around in bathtubs full of money. Not sure where that mindset comes from, but most college educated people make around $50-60k/yr and work over 40 hrs/wk. I'm talking about people that've been out of college and working for awhile too...

very true... I've heard on this board a lot of "there's no big money in aviation" which is true these days. However, 6 figure jobs in any industry require a lot of "paying dues" and working your way up.

 

[mayday1]

Interesting stuff....

Anywho, how is $45,000 a year for 10 years a lot of money?

EDIT: In comparison to what a doctor or lawyer would make 10 years after their 4th year of college.....

there are doctors and lawyers who do very well for themselves. But there are also doctors leaving the profession because they can't afford insurance anymore, and good lawyers who haven't made more than $70k in a given year.

big $$$ jobs are not a slam dunk in ANY field, industry or profession. they require experience, commitment, and education.

 

[mayday1]

Have they promised your friend advancement? Have they guaranteed him pay raises greater than 3% or whatever the cost of inflation usually is? If they have, I hope it's in writing. If it's not, there's a reason. If there's no guarantee at all, there's also a reason.

not sure where you work, but employers don't guarantee anyone anything. Your advancement is based on your performance.

Also, why wouldn't they take the risk at roping him in at $45k a year and leaving him at that? If he leaves, they hire another graduate from school at $45k per year. You want to tell me that is not feasible? The airlines do it all the time. If you don't like it, quit, because somebody else will do your job for the same money or less.

ok, but in many fields your value as an employee is commensurate with your experience. when you get into management and leadership ranks you're not making widgets, and companies are willing to pay big bucks for experience.

 

[mayday1]

But wouldn't the real question be how many that get hired at the respective airlines have the degree vs. how many that do not? I'd like to see a percentage, some real numbers here. I mean, it's one thing to pontificate from "on high" as it were about how unecessary a degree is for a piloting job, but it's quite another to be on the other side, a prospective employee, and trying to construct the best possible scenario for one's self to get hired. Sure, it is possible to find a good flying job without a degree. But is it likely? Is it realistic? Is it more likely that I will find a good job without a degree, or less? Which path gives me the best chance to make a living by flying an airplane? (Which is all I really care about anyway.)

Those are the real questions.

-Goose

let's also not lose sight of the fact that college is education and imparts knowledge. regardless of an employer's requirements, one can never go wrong with furthering their education.

To advise otherwise is irresponsible.

 

[bobbysamd]

"Great" airlines and open-mindedness

Where did you read I was imposing our hiring standards on anyone.

You are qualified to speak for your company only, Yip, USA Jets, and not the industry as a whole. But, that's what you're trying to do. Let reps from SWA, JB, etc. and the other "great airlines" log in and speak up.

Great airlines look at the whole man concept and not the piece of paper. That is open mindedness on those airlines listed, it was not intented to be an all inclusive list.

Based on my experiences, only, I would heartily argue that they are not as open-minded as you might believe. Go read my posts on that subject. And,all the others are not so great? That is a subjective opinion on your part, Yip, not objective. Meaning, Delta, Continental, American, United, AWA, U, Midwest Express, etc., are not so great, simply because their hiring criteria are not congruent with yours?

Kit says 172 out of 177 hiring do not make a 4-yr degree a hard requirement. We are talking about the possession of 4-yr degree or not. Sounds like a few readers are starting to get the picture, hang in there Bobby.

Of course, Kit's history of purveying sophistries is well-known.

Just read the rebuttals on this thread alone to your position. Some people do "get it," from the standpoint that starting the career without the best credentials, as you advocate, is sooooo ill-advised.

 

[bobbysamd]

Wrong button, sorry.

 

[bobbysamd]

Money bathtubs

It's funny how many pilots think the non-aviation world is full of jobs where people are rolling around in bathtubs full of money. Not sure where that mindset comes from, but most college educated people make around $50-60k/yr and work over 40 hrs/wk. I'm talking about people that've been out of college and working for awhile too...

Or make less than $50-$60K for the same hours.