Only have a Private & Hate College

[FN FAL]

College is boring, I learn new stuff, but it's not stuff I am interested in, and it sucks. Why do we have to keep on doing stuff we don't like if we could just do aviation only, and thats it. Do schools like ERAU make you take lame courses like "Contemporary Literature" with the likes of Michael Moore? I mean that is total garbage.

Your interview will be very intersting. On the interview board will be many who sacrificed to serve country during time of need. You, however, will be whining about yadda, yadda, yadda. You will be found out and discarded...no matter how much you liked airplanes.

 

[Corona]

I think some of you are trying to educate the ineducable. If some want to quite college/marriage/career/parenthood or whatever with considerably less than the ol' college try, I say let 'em.

It doesn't take much effort to find the requirements for a successful professional career, and those with ambition and drive accomplish those requirements.

Those that just want to put a check mark in a box, as FN FAL pointed out, will not succeed regardless of the boxes checked. Career checklists do not ignite passion.

My education and professional experience have been mostly in concert with MY goals and interests, not those of some possible future employer.

I can't imagine doing it any other way.

C

 

[Metro752]

Your interview will be very intersting. On the interview board will be many who sacrificed to serve country during time of need. You, however, will be whining about yadda, yadda, yadda. You will be found out and discarded...no matter how much you liked airplanes.

I'm 18, and in this day and age, I haven't had a chance to serve my country. I was a week away from MEPS, 94 on the ASVAB, going into the army, then I decided college would probably be a better idea...besides the fact that my recruiter was called into some special kill the drug lord thing. I was going into MOS 97B/96B, whatever those were, Intel & Interogator.

FN-FAL, I read about your family in one of your posts, and I think that you're a great American.

I DID NOT GET THAT OTHER GUY BANNED, I HAVE NO IDEA what he posted, I haven't been on the board in a day or two. So don't be pissed at me about it, please.

I meant no real disrespect to the good muslims.

I'm going to college, I made a whiney post about it. Have any of you who went, ever complained about college?

 

[bobbysamd]

Ah, hah!!

The ASE and A&P example was aimed at the you must go to college message. You can make yourself marketable without college. Trade schools are overlooked by the college only crowd.

. . . . because, in this context, we're talking about pilots, and the debate, again, is about building a piloting career without a college degree.

BTW my B in law owns the Muffler Shop.

Ah, hah!! Things are different when you are a business owner v. an employee. The sky's the limit when you are an entrepeneur. The risks are also greater as well.

 

[pilotyip]

No, the A&P example was aimed at the "You must go to college in case your pilot career takes at hit for any reason and you have a fallback way of making a living". The college crowd keeps posting this fallback as the reason for college. 4-yr degree not required for fall back. A skill is required, but not a four year degree. The 4-yr degree is where this started 2 years ago. You do not need a four-year degree to succeed as a pilot.

 

[bobbysamd]

<sigh>

You do not need a four-year degree to succeed as a pilot.

Yes, we are back to where we started, Yip, with you arguing exception.

There will always be those who are hired without a four-year degree. But they are exceptions and the minority. Counseling a would-be pilot accordingly is dangerous and irresponsible. Once more, the four-year degree qualifies a pilot for any job.

 

[pilotyip]

Coming hiring boom

The pilot with the flight time will get hired into a good job before the pilot who spends 4 yrs in college. You get hired because of your flight time. Check back with me in the summer of 2007 and see what is happening.

 

[ERAUBrat3]

I'd rather hear that from human resources than a check pilot..sorry "captain".

Granted you may not need it to be a successful pilot, if you go through major changes in your life and you don't have one, you'll sure wish you did. It's an insurance policy in a way. A hiring captain for Continental told me that yes, people do get hired with the majors without a college degree...once they have 7000+ hours. An America West captain told me the same, and added that a college degree would show that you have a drive to learn and succeed, rather than cut corners.

Sure that may be their opinions...but if they're doing the hiring I'd probably want to fit in the category of what they like to see.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hiring boom kool-aid

The pilot with the flight time will get hired into a good job before the pilot who spends 4 yrs in college. You get hired because of your flight time. Check back with me in the summer of 2007 and see what is happening.

As Ronald Reagan once said, "There you go again." What hiring boom? The aviation business has changed fundamentally since the last boom and the boom before that. E.g., fewer majors seats and furloughees from the majors waiting to be recalled. Perhaps there may be a few new pilots hired to fill seats retirees left behind. And, you know, who will be hired?? Pilots with college degrees. They might have the flight time, yes, but their degrees will open the door.

P.S. Yip, you don't get hired because of your flight time. That is baloney. My totals, at the left, far exceeded regional requirements of the day, especially in the multiengine category. I sent resumes to regionals for years and, yes, did have some interviews, but couldn't interest any regional in me.

 

[pilotyip]

brat3 splain to me, how is logging 5000 hours of Part TJ PIC is cutting corrners?

 

[bobbysamd]

Hiring in their own image

I'd rather hear that from human resources than a check pilot..sorry "captain".

In all fairness to Yip, he hires pilots at his company. Having said that,

Sure that may be their opinions...but if they're doing the hiring I'd probably want to fit in the category of what they like to see.

It is said that those who hire, hire in their own image.

Yes. Someone else who "gets it."

 

[pilotyip]

Truly hire in our own image

It is said that those who hire, hire in their own image


What does that mean?


Exactly we do hire in our own image. We know a college degree or lack of college degree does not define a man as a person. At USA Jet like all other opened minded airlines i.e. AirTran, Spirit, JB, SWA and all the regionals do not define the presence of a piece of paper as the ultimate definition of a successful candidate. Great airlines look at the whole man concept, what does this person bring to our company. There are pilots with degrees that fill that concept as well as pilots without college degrees. A great personality, a solid record of achievement, not necessarily defined by college, and a convincing desire to bring skills to our company are what will sell us on hiring a person. It is not a HR decision, they are involved in the recommendation process, but an operations board makes the decision.

 

[ERAUBrat3]

Southwest Airlines
Education:
Graduation from accredited, four-year college preferred.

http://www.southwest.com/careers/pilots.html

Bad example.

 

[pilotyip]

stuff

Brat do you know what preferred means? It means preferred but not required. Check pervious posts on SWA hiring and you will see posts from SWA pilots hired without degrees. Plus you never splained how the 121 PIC is cutting corners

 

[ERAUBrat3]

Have we lost the topic at all here? I don't think EXplaining my point would do any good, so I'm not going to try. I'll just go ahead and say 'you win' because God knows you'll come back with an experienced answer and requesting that I EXplain myself more.

We're all experts on this, aren't we?

Thanks for your support bobbysamd, unfortunately I think our points fall on deaf ears. Their loss.

 

[mayday1]

Brat do you know what preferred means? It means preferred but not required. Check pervious posts on SWA hiring and you will see posts from SWA pilots hired without degrees. Plus you never splained how the 121 PIC is cutting corners

Yip.. "preferred" means that those with a degree will likely have the advantage, as well as fit the profile of what the airline wants. Yes, they will hire without one, but as Bobbysamd has said, arguing exception is very misguided.

 

[TonyC]

... After a couple of years, I realized the "training" I was getting was actually just what a bunch of "doctors" (Freud and that bunch) had made up (theorized) about the human mind, ... but there was no actual scientific proof of any of this material. I saw it as a great hoax on the public.

Perhaps you don't realize it, nosehair, but you just admitted that you were educated. If only everyone were as well-educated about the great hoax.

Most graduates find that their perceptions of what they intend to learn is somewhat different from what they ultimately do learn. Often times, the difference is profound. Ultimately, though, the larger experience is more important anyway. The process itself provides the most useful education of all.

 

[Goose Egg]

Over our series of debates, I have learned to take what yip says just a little more seriously because he is by virtue of his position a de facto policy maker within the industry. College is not an absolute requirement, and good jobs can be had without the degree.

However, I would be remiss if I did not recommend college as a universally beneficial activity no matter what your career goals. In short, it can't hurt you.

For what it is worth, I'm glad I have my "piece of paper."

 

[qmaster3]

Have we lost the topic at all here? I don't think EXplaining my point would do any good, so I'm not going to try. I'll just go ahead and say 'you win' because God knows you'll come back with an experienced answer and requesting that I EXplain myself more.

We're all experts on this, aren't we?

Thanks for your support bobbysamd, unfortunately I think our points fall on deaf ears. Their loss.

It's those "deaf ears" that hire.

 

[smellthejeta]

My turn

A few thoughts...

To the guy who said that making $45k right out of school was good money, $45k might be good money for a college graduate, but it ain't sh!t in a metro area with a high COL. Trust me. I know.

To the guy who works on docks at the USPS: $60k is decent money (especially if you can make that kind of money where housing is cheap), and you will find many people who will be content with a paycheck like that until retirement. My parents are college educated, and I'm not sure they make that kind of money combined. I don't know what the retirement benefits are there, but if they're *anything* you will find little turnover in that job.

As far as the need for college, I am speaking from a "been there done that" point of view. I submit that if you know that you won't put in the effort necessary to earn above average grades (above a 3.0), don't waste your money or your parents' money. At least don't do it at a school that will saddle you with high loan payments. Why? Right now, few decent employers will look at me and it is that much harder to get into graduate school. Yeah, I really think that if you won't pull a 3.0 you're probably wasting your time and money.

And to our friend Yip: Yip, I know of a career path where you can make six figures a year within 5 years of graduating from school, and all you need is a two year degree. Career path looks like this: Got to school. Get decent grades. Take a test. Do good on test. Graudate. Wait for phone call.

I'm starting to see his point as well, and if he actually comes out and says that going to college is a waste of time, then I would have to really disagree with him.