Only have a Private & Hate College

[cforst513]

A few thoughts...

To the guy who said that making $45k right out of school was good money, $45k might be good money for a college graduate, but it ain't sh!t in a metro area with a high COL. Trust me. I know.

yes, i understand where you're coming from, saying that cost of living is high in certain areas. but think about this for a second: my roommate will graduate 2 days after he turns 22, he's single, and has no experience in the field he's going into. they're willing to pay him $45,000/year, starting off. think of the advancement possiblities. they're not going to rope him in with a high offer, then leave him at $45K for the next 10 years. he'll be making some serious money. that's the point i'm trying to make. i don't think that this particular company would take that risk with someone only holding a G.E.D. or a high school diploma. he's a 3.8 student who is very active at our university.

 

[Metro752]

Interesting stuff....

Anywho, how is $45,000 a year for 10 years a lot of money?

EDIT: In comparison to what a doctor or lawyer would make 10 years after their 4th year of college.....

 

[cforst513]

Interesting stuff....

Anywho, how is $45,000 a year for 10 years a lot of money?

EDIT: In comparison to what a doctor or lawyer would make 10 years after their 4th year of college.....

ok, not to be mean, but kid, go back and read my post. nowhere in there did i say that $45,000 for 10 years was good. what did i say? go back and read it. if you're too lazy, i'll put it in bold, word for word for ya:

they're willing to pay him $45,000/year, starting off. think of the advancement possiblities. they're not going to rope him in with a high offer, then leave him at $45K for the next 10 years.

now think about it really quick. i'll wait...

ok. after reading that again, what do you think i meant? if i was you, i'd put a lot of emphasis on the last sentence in bold up there. what that last sentence means is that they are not going to make him a very nice offer right off the bat, then let him sit there and rot for the next 10 years, only letting him make $45,000. that is unethical. instead, what that tells you is that my roommate will be making good money b/c they are willing to pay him so much off the bat. he will get regular raises and 10 years down the road, he will be doing very good for himself.

now, again, i reiterate: where did i say that making $45,000 for the next 10 years is good money? seems to me that i did not. READ, metro, before you respond, ok? read and interpret what people are saying before responding. makes me think that harry potter books are right up your alley...

 

[smellthejeta]

yes, i understand where you're coming from, saying that cost of living is high in certain areas. but think about this for a second: my roommate will graduate 2 days after he turns 22, he's single, and has no experience in the field he's going into. they're willing to pay him $45,000/year, starting off. think of the advancement possiblities. they're not going to rope him in with a high offer, then leave him at $45K for the next 10 years. he'll be making some serious money. that's the point i'm trying to make. i don't think that this particular company would take that risk with someone only holding a G.E.D. or a high school diploma. he's a 3.8 student who is very active at our university.

With age comes wisdom (hopefully). My mother takes a lot of things on blind faith. I don't. Take a look at flying for a career. Everybody puts up with sh!tty pay at regionals all in the name of 121 TJ PIC time so they can get a good paying job at the majors. What a lot of them fail to realize is that those coveted "majors" jobs may not be there. I'm looking at a 6 figure a year job when I'm 30, which may not be there due to medical reasons. If it was guaranteed, I'd be taking out tons of loans, having lots of fun, and working a lot less.

Have they promised your friend advancement? Have they guaranteed him pay raises greater than 3% or whatever the cost of inflation usually is? If they have, I hope it's in writing. If it's not, there's a reason. If there's no guarantee at all, there's also a reason.

I looked at going to school for pharmacy. A family friend who is a pharmacist advised against it. I told him, "Hey dude... look at the dough they pay out of school." He told me "Hey dude... there's not much advancement opportunity in pharmacy, so don't expect drastic pay increases every year." He said I would pretty much be limited to COLA adjustments every year.

Also, why wouldn't they take the risk at roping him in at $45k a year and leaving him at that? If he leaves, they hire another graduate from school at $45k per year. You want to tell me that is not feasible? The airlines do it all the time. If you don't like it, quit, because somebody else will do your job for the same money or less.

I still submit that $45k ain't sh!t, at least depending on your cost of living. I make about that as a line guy. Let's look at what $45k gets you in Los Angeles (and figures are close to what I was at in another major city as well).

There are 26 pay periods in a year. My after tax income is approximately 71% of my gross pay, and I haven't started a 401k yet. $45,000*.71/26 = $1228 per pay period.

Rent (includes util but not cable/phone, and I live in the cheapest building I could find without rat infestation) $825. Car payment (I don't drive anything fancy): $225. Insurance(liability only): $50. Student loan payment (the one I have to make): $80. DSL/Phone/Cell: $800. Cable: $45. Gas: $150. Food: $175 (I don't eat out that much). Grand total $1630. This isn't including about $400 in student loan payments that I can defer while I'm in school, and that a new car would cost me more per month, my insurance rates would be significantly higher, and credit cards that I might have. Also, this figure 1) doesn't include 401(k) investments and 2) savings for the 3 to 6 months of "immediately available" funds you should have for emergencies. If that was the case, for the $400/mo that you have left over after all normal bills are paid, you'd have to save for 15 months for three months of expenses and 30 months for six months of expenses (assuming monthly expenses of $2000).

Now, my brother's making $56k out of school, no experience, and only a four year degreel, and lives in an area where the cost of living is much lower than it is here. *That* is decent money.

So, in summary... $45k/yr is what everybody out of school should be making to pay their bills. It's good money for a college graduate, but sh!tty pay overall. I'm thinking about things that you want me to think about, and unless they've charted him a clear career progression, I'm not convinced that he will be guaranteed to make stellar cash with his present employer.

And kid, you seem to be saying that because they are starting your friend off at a "high" starting salary, that and that alone means he will get substantial pay raises every year. Unless he works under a collective baragaining agreement, I would be very leery of any promises. Regarding your comment about letting him sit at $45k/yr being unethical... What are you smoking? *Nothing* requires them to give him *any* pay raise every year. Look at the airlines... They're CUTTING employees' pay. Is that ethical? Why not?

 

[VFR on Top]

College?! Screw that. Spend your $$$ on a new truck or something

Besides, as a private pilot and college graduate, I can do without the extra competition.

 

[TonyC]

DSL/Phone/Cell: $800.

I see an obvious area for cost-cutting. 800 bucks for phones is insane.

 

[smellthejeta]

I see an obvious area for cost-cutting. 800 bucks for phones is insane.

Geeze, I really did write that. I meant to say $80. Covers DSL, land line with unlimited local and an hour of long distance, and the cheapest nationwide cell plan cingular has to offer.

 

[wrxpilot]

Have they promised your friend advancement? Have they guaranteed him pay raises greater than 3% or whatever the cost of inflation usually is? If they have, I hope it's in writing. If it's not, there's a reason. If there's no guarantee at all, there's also a reason.

A very good point that I'm glad you brought up. I graduated in 2001 w/ an engineering degree and accepted an engineering job for $48k/yr in an average cost (not high, not low) of living area. I thought that was great money at the time, but I quickly learned it wasn't. Like was said before, it's enough to pay bills and save a little if you're frugal. But if you've got debt from college, car payment, insurance, paying for flying, etc. it quickly becomes not enough.

If you think a systems analyst pay or any other tech job starts at a salary like that and increases by 10-15% /yr, you're in for a surprise. Figure more on 3-4%, maybe 6% if you get a bang up review that year. It is really difficult to break $100k/yr in a job like that, but can be done if you put in a lot of years, have excellent (i.e. indisposable) experience, and work for the right company.

It's funny how many pilots think the non-aviation world is full of jobs where people are rolling around in bathtubs full of money. Not sure where that mindset comes from, but most college educated people make around $50-60k/yr and work over 40 hrs/wk. I'm talking about people that've been out of college and working for awhile too...

 

[Goose Egg]

It's funny how many pilots think the non-aviation world is full of jobs where people are rolling around in bathtubs full of money. Not sure where that mindset comes from, but most college educated people make around $50-60k/yr and work over 40 hrs/wk. I'm talking about people that've been out of college and working for awhile too...

My point exactly! My dad is a senior staff member at a university and holds a Masters degree in accounting and a CPA. He makes around $70K, and he's about to retire.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, how is 2nd year regional FO pay?

-Goose

 

[smellthejeta]

My point exactly! My dad is a senior staff member at a university and holds a Masters degree in accounting and a CPA. He makes around $70K, and he's about to retire.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, how is 2nd year regional FO pay?

-Goose

Around $33 a block hour, give or take. Back in the UAX days, ACA paid 2nd year RJ FO's about $10/block hour more than 1st year. That translates into a $10k/yr raise.