Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Online degrees

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dep676
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 8

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
The following article describes how easy it is to corrupt the academic system.

Enjoy,
------

Nation & World : Tuesday, March 20, 2001

Close-up
Clinton scandal and a $40 million scam
By Josh Getlin
Los Angeles Times
NEW SQUARE, N.Y. - For more than four decades, this community of Hasidic residents has lived a reclusive existence far removed from the malls and subdivisions surrounding the village north of New York City. Television sets and newspapers are banned here. So are shorts, T-shirts and bathing suits.
Signs in Yiddish advise men and women to walk on different sides of the road. As mothers shepherd children through snowy streets, their fathers, husbands and sons spend hours in study halls poring over holy texts.
But this village that deliberately shut out the modern world also is the home of a sophisticated scam that bilked $40 million from the federal government to support civic and spiritual enterprises.
And ever since then-President Clinton commuted prison sentences for four men who engineered the fraud, the town that overwhelmingly backed Hillary Rodham Clinton's U.S. Senate bid has been caught up in scandal.
The U.S. attorney in New York City has launched a probe to determine whether there was a deal that swapped votes for the reduced sentences, and last week FBI agents began questioning residents.
"I'd say the mood here is one of exasperation, because nobody has offered proof that there was a deal to trade votes for pardons," said Rabbi Mayer Schiller, a town spokesman. "Nobody got rich here. The men convicted used the money to support local schools and, while they might have violated the letter of the law, they didn't think they violated the spirit of the law."
Vote for Clinton: 1,400-12
Prosecutors have angrily protested the commutations, saying they send the wrong message to groups contemplating fraud.
And many observers have challenged Hillary Clinton's contention that she had nothing to do with her husband's decision to reduce the sentences.
The New Square furor had its roots in her visit here in August, a time when her Senate campaign was in trouble with Jewish voters over her earlier embrace of a Palestinian state. She needed a show of support from the state's politically potent Orthodox Jewish community and, with great fanfare, the first lady toured the village. The highlight was an audience with Grand Rebbe David Twersky, the town's spiritual leader.
Sen. Clinton has said repeatedly that neither she nor Twersky discussed the four imprisoned men during the meeting, an account supported by several witnesses.
In November, the town voted 1,400-12 for her, unlike two neighboring Orthodox communities that voted heavily for her opponent. The Clintons invited Twersky to visit the White House on Dec. 22, when, she said, the rabbi lobbied to reduce the sentences.
What New Square is all about
A town of modest, sometimes ramshackle houses and apartments, New Square was founded in 1956 by Grand Rebbe Joseph Twersky (David Twersky's father) from Ukraine. It was the United States' first all-Orthodox Jewish village, modeled along the lines of a 19th-century Russian shtetl.
The sexes are segregated in public, and residents mingle as little as possible with American culture, which is deemed profane.
Although some people are employed, most are absorbed with trying to observe a strict Hasidic lifestyle. As a result, the 7,000-member community has traditionally sought government funding to stay alive, said J.J. Goldberg, editor of Forward, a weekly Jewish newspaper published in New York City.
More than 60 percent of residents live below the poverty line, according to federal statistics, yet the town is rich in another sense: Its leaders have historically delivered huge blocs of votes to supportive politicians, in past elections giving equally lopsided votes to New York Gov. George Pataki, a Republican, and U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, a Democrat.
But there are limits to political largess: Although New Square's life is centered on its yeshiva, a school for Talmudic studies, there is a federal ban on aid to such religious institutions. And this was the seed of the fraud that took root in the early 1980s. Unable to get conventional funding for the yeshiva and other schools, a handful of men connected to the town's village council tapped into a gold mine of federal programs.
The scam: phantom schools
During a 1999 trial, prosecutors said hundreds of New Square residents had received thousands of dollars in federal grants to attend a fictitious school based in Brooklyn. Meanwhile, newly arrived Russian immigrants received $300 payments to sign up for nonexistent courses in local schools with teachers who didn't exist.
Similar schemes were hatched with small-business loans and rental subsidies from federal housing programs, enabling organizers to fund the yeshiva and other facilities until the fraud was halted in 1992.
Although they claimed to have simply misunderstood federal regulations, four residents were convicted of funneling federal money into the New Square yeshiva and other schools, bank accounts and, in some cases, the pockets of the organizers. U.S. District Judge Barbara Jones said the men had masterminded a scheme that was "sophisticated, long-term and brazen in its execution."
Two other New Square men were indicted, but they fled to Israel in 1997. Chaim Berger, a town political elder and alleged architect of the fraud, is fighting extradition.
In his Jan. 20 commutation, Clinton reduced the sentences of Kalman Stern, Jacob Elbaum, Benjamin Berger (Chaim's son) and David Goldstein from a maximum of 6½ years to a maximum of 2½ years. Attorneys said that the men, who remain in custody, are remorseful and that their large families are suffering.
'The feds got fed up'
The New Square case was similar to others in ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities probed by federal investigators during the early 1990s. During a 1993 U.S. Senate hearing, witnesses cited 37 instances where groups were using federal money illegally. Most cases were settled through negotiation, but New Square landed in court.
"I'll tell you why," said a prominent town figure, who asked not to be identified. "The feds got fed up, because at the initial stages of the investigation, people here were very uncooperative. The government was really annoyed at the scale of the fraud and the kind of resistance they encountered."
When FBI agents drove into town to serve subpoenas in 1995, they were surrounded by motorists who threatened them and forced them to leave. When agents returned with a police escort, they were followed by a car with a loudspeaker blaring instructions in Yiddish and urging residents not to cooperate. The next year, after a federal court had failed to get financial records from the yeshiva, a judge forced it into receivership and levied a $1 million fine.
Scam perpetrated for years
Authorities later determined that the defendants had signed up many residents for Pell education grants beginning in the early 1980s. These stipends of as much as $2,500, which do not have to be reimbursed, are designed to further a student's college education and help develop career skills.
The scam had escaped major scrutiny until auditors visiting New Square in 1992 grew suspicious. Brian Hickey, a veteran investigator with the Department of Education, triggered a wide-ranging probe after he asked to inspect financial records. He was kept waiting for hours, before finally inspecting documents that seemed to be freshly typed.
When he asked one Pell-grant recipient when she expected to graduate, she answered, "You mean from high school?"
Hickey and other auditors decided to go door to door to see whether students were taking college-level courses. They discovered widespread fraud: Abraham Berkowitz, who testified under a grant of immunity, said he and the defendants regularly posed as school administrators for the fictitious Brooklyn school and rehearsed their roles before auditors arrived.
Two women who got Pell grants for 14 and 11 years, respectively, could not recall what they studied.
One student, asked what she learned in biology, said she had been trained to prepare kosher meat. Another woman, told her husband had been enrolled in rabbinical courses for six years, testified that he actually was a limousine driver from Teaneck, N.J. "If he'd taken all of these classes," she said angrily, "he'd have been a rabbi by now."
 
I know I have had plenty of course work with UVSC too. That is my plan to get this degree and then if need be I will get a degree in a traditional class room setting.
 
Dep676 said:
I know I have had plenty of course work with UVSC too. That is my plan to get this degree and then if need be I will get a degree in a traditional class room setting.
You can sit in the classroom at UVSC and get the same piece of paper if you never step foot on campus.
The degrees that are questionable don't have a campus and aren't accredited.
 
Don't be foolish!

UVSC is an accredited university. You do not need to pursue an additional degree.

Accreditation is any form of independent review of educational programs for the purpose of helping to establish that the learning offered is of a uniform and sound quality.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Utah Valley State College is Accredited by the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities. (NWCCU)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In the United States, the most widely recognized form of accreditation for degree-granting programs comes from the regional accreditation boards. When people ask if you have attended an "accredited university" in the United States, they most commonly mean a regionally accredited university.[/FONT]

I graduate in December and my degree is the same whether I do it online or in the classroom. As long as the online program is through an accredited university it will not matter what industry you work in. An online degree is not frowned upon in any way. Now those life experience degrees are a little shady but we are talking about something completely different here.

Good luck to all of those at UVSC.

 
The Above

was not directed towards you Viper. You just posted before I could respond to Dep676.
 
No I meant to say. If I end up out of aviation I will pursue a degree in something else the traditional way. Just because aviation degrees do not go to far outside of aviation. I am real happy with my wrok so far at UVSC. I heard they my be getting a Masters program too. Has anyone else heard that to and if so in what? Would it be online I wonder?
 
Uvsc

I have not heard anything about a graduate program but it would be nice if they did offer one online. Don't worry so much about what your degree is in. Do you know how many people actually work in the field that they studied in college? In most cases, a company just wants to see that you have completed a degree.
 
Quick question about UVSC online degree. I was reading their website and it said that i could do all my flight training locally and all of the classroom stuff online. Now this program is for pilots right? What happens if a pilot is on the road for 2 weeks straight? He may have a laptop, but there's no way he'd be able to attend all of the classes.
Is it scheduled classes online? Or is it at your own pace online?
 
on the road and online

I believe that, when looking at a resume, any employer-- in aviation,or another field-- will appreciate the effort required to complete a degree, while maintaining an irregular work schedule. In any field an online degree is a clear sign that the applicant has made a determined effort to improve their skills. There are people on this list, who are familiar with the degree programs that are legitimate in aviation, their opinion is important.

I think you can always see where you are when compariing an online program to a traditional program. It is quite simple: Purchase the required textbook for the online program and then go to the bookstore at the traditional university close to you. Compare the textbooks used in similar courses on campus with those you are required to use. You may even find that buying the textbook from the other school expands and enhances the work you are required to do in your own program. After all, you are making an effort to become expert in your field, one more book might make the difference!

I am just beginning to pursue my own dream of flying. I hope you know my intentions in providing the information I have regarding online degrees was not intended to discourage anyone--merely to make you aware of the pitfalls.

Let me know if I can help in any other way.
Annie
 
Alin10123 said:
Quick question about UVSC online degree. I was reading their website and it said that i could do all my flight training locally and all of the classroom stuff online. Now this program is for pilots right? What happens if a pilot is on the road for 2 weeks straight? He may have a laptop, but there's no way he'd be able to attend all of the classes.
Is it scheduled classes online? Or is it at your own pace online?

Yes all the classes are online. From what I have found so far most of the classes are work at your own pace type. There may be some that have deadlines for certain things. I am just starting out in the program. However I have had friends go through and they said it was mostly self paced.
 
Annie

Annie,

I studied for two years at a major university and then transferred into an online degree program. I have found that employers actually think more of someone that has worked full time while completing a degree online.

You might want to try an online course sometime and maybe that will expand or enhance your way of thinking. The online program that I am finishing is with a university that has 25,000 students on the traditional campus and we all use the same textbook regardless of whether we are studying online or in a classroom.

The online students do not have the luxury of having the professor at their disposal and must often times learn the material on their own. Most professors and students will say that online courses can be more challenging because of the lack of student to professor communication.

I do not see the PITFALLS that you speak of. I would appreciate it if you did some more research before listing the pitfalls of an online education.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I agree with you. ABSOLUTELY. Employers do consider the effort involved in obtaining an online degree as being an indication of determination and sincere intent.

Have you read my post in the other thread? You will see there that I recommend to folks that they look into the adult education, or continuing education programs at the traditional university in their area, which is what you have done.

I am not a critic of student intent, I am concerned about how easy it is to have those good intentions be abused. My postings were not a criticism of online students, but rather an effort to make readers aware of the possible problems. I am also aware that many times in a traditional classroom on campus that the "world class expert", who is listed as the teacher for a particular class, will only show up for one lecture; the remainder of the class will be taught by a student intern.

It is because, I care so much about the effort that is demonstrated with online studies, and the concomitant vulnerability that I posted those articles. That is not to ignore the fact that anyone purusing a resume with an online degree will first ask of themselves--was this a legitimate effort in a legitimate program? It will always be up to the student to prove the affirtmative. On the other hand the folks in industry KNOW which are the good programs--either on campus, or off!!

Annie
 
I finished Utah Valley's Associate degree this past spring. Presently working
on the Bachelors. They'll give you credit for ratings up through your MEI. I
think it's about 16 hours total credit. You pay a smaller tuition fee, send in
a copy of your ticket, take an online test, and you're finished with those
classes.

By using that option, taking the maximum number of classes allowed, and taking
classes in the summer semesters, I finished the AS degree in one year.
Now that I'm in the BS program I've cut back to part time enrollment.

Classes thus far have all been self paced for the most part. They sometimes
have deadlines for projects or tests. Usually it amounts to all classwork
being in by the semester finals deadlines.

The professors have all been great, except for one that had the entire class
complaining about him.

From what I've gathered, it doesn't matter where you do
your flight training, but you may want to check with the aviation degree
counselors just to be sure. You can reach them at 888.901.7192.

Best regards
 
MrScary said:
I finished Utah Valley's Associate degree this past spring. Presently working
on the Bachelors. They'll give you credit for ratings up through your MEI. I
think it's about 16 hours total credit. You pay a smaller tuition fee, send in
a copy of your ticket, take an online test, and you're finished with those
classes.

By using that option, taking the maximum number of classes allowed, and taking
classes in the summer semesters, I finished the AS degree in one year.
Now that I'm in the BS program I've cut back to part time enrollment.

Classes thus far have all been self paced for the most part. They sometimes
have deadlines for projects or tests. Usually it amounts to all classwork
being in by the semester finals deadlines.

The professors have all been great, except for one that had the entire class
complaining about him.

From what I've gathered, it doesn't matter where you do
your flight training, but you may want to check with the aviation degree
counselors just to be sure. You can reach them at 888.901.7192.

Best regards

I should be ok with the school. The school that i'm in is actually enrolled in their program. So everything should be ok.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom