One Fractional Union

[BentOver]

If a fractional goes on strike and the company tries to cover with charter flights, would those pilots be considered 'scabs'?

*i was reading the Clay thread.

I think it would depend on if those recovery pilots were unionized or not...

When Spirit went on strike there was some video of some two bit airline doing a flight under Spirits label.. Pilots were ostrisized.. But I don't think they were unionized, so to label them with the official "scab" label????

Jerks, maybe.... But they didn't cross any of their own picket lines....

Problem with fractional, or any unionized 135/91... There are so many mom and pop charter companies that can realistically recovery a flight that it is nearly impossible to know who is doing what.... In the airlines it is much easier to track

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Bent, It doesn't matter if they are union or non-union. If they do work that is subject to a work action, then they will be considered scabs. Once they are on the scab list, you are always on the scab list...Even after you have passed. Next in line are the mom and pop charter companies. After that if an fbo puts fuel in one of those planes, they get added to the list.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Protect them from WHAT, exactly?

Warren's goons. Were you there last time? Those cops formed a protective ring.

Interfering with legal informational picketing is a major violation of the NLRA and would result in an immediate lawsuit in federal court. Expect to see a minimum of 100 picketers in Omaha in May. Yours truly among them.

Boo-hoo! Warren ain't ascared of no lawsuit. The event will be over before you immediately file in federal court.

See you in Omaha. I'll be handing out hot chocolate to the police.

 

[realityman]

Warren's goons. Were you there last time? Those cops formed a protective ring.



Boo-hoo! Warren ain't ascared of no lawsuit. The event will be over before you immediately file in federal court.

See you in Omaha. I'll be handing out hot chocolate to the police.

Warren HATES negative press.

Yes, picketers in Omaha are negative press, but his interference with legal picketing would be far worse.

Our union has already had some of our "negative" (against Warren and JH) ads in the main Omaha newspaper which, coincidentally, BH owns. It would have been easy for Warren to stop those, but he didn't. It would have been worse press for him to be seen interfering with the press than what those ads provided.

I'm sure the police will appreciate the hot chocolate. Thanks. I'll be there walking with my peers. Can't wait to see your hot chocolate booth.

 

[Praetorian]

Ok. I'll be the jerk and ask the obvious question. What would be in it for NJASAP? It is bigger than all the other fracs combined. It seems to me that our dues would be sent to other locals in order to help them, and a tiny fraction would be sent to help NJASAP.

NJASAP is fighting the endless bankroll of BRK, and it's mighty legal team. Dues need to stay there, and not to someone else.

Don't worry, NJASAP's charter only allows them to represent the NJ pilots. So they couldn't represent other groups if they wanted too.

 

[fischman]

Don't worry, NJASAP's charter only allows them to represent the NJ pilots. So they couldn't represent other groups if they wanted too.

Bylaws can be changed. Repeatedly.

 

[gret]

Bent, It doesn't matter if they are union or non-union. If they do work that is subject to a work action, then they will be considered scabs. Once they are on the scab list, you are always on the scab list...Even after you have passed. Next in line are the mom and pop charter companies. After that if an fbo puts fuel in one of those planes, they get added to the list.

Right...nobody cares about a group of dumb pilots who think they are underpaid. The line guy is going to put the Jet A in the tank and the mom and pops (who are this guys any more) are not going to turn down a charter.

What have you done for them?

 

[gret]

If we are very serious about our futures then we need to lose the egos and band together. Things won't be perfect but we'll have a lot more resources to fight the enemy. We can work for Fractional pay/benefits rather than company only.

If we really want the best, we need to come together and act like the best. No more tearing each other down, our companies love that.

I have been anti union in the past.

Yup...this will work...not!

Nobody cares...you aren't going to be taken care of by a bunch of fat butt union guys who are drinking and eating your dues...

OHGOON...where have you been? Wishing you the best for 2015!

 

[Downwind]

Bent, It doesn't matter if they are union or non-union. If they do work that is subject to a work action, then they will be considered scabs. Once they are on the scab list, you are always on the scab list...Even after you have passed. Next in line are the mom and pop charter companies. After that if an fbo puts fuel in one of those planes, they get added to the list.

I disagree. I've worked 135 charter and am currently on the NJA seniority list. I had no idea who was paying what to who when I flew mom and pop. I was told 3 pax from A to B. I worried about WX, numbers, and duty time. That's it. I didn't care who was coming from where and wouldn't expect a 135 guy to either. The only definition of a scab that I can support is of a pilot that crosses a picket line to fly a QS tail. Period. Even if the 135 guy knew that it was a NJA selloff it isn't his fight. He's at his job flying his bird and what happens above him is irrelevant. We can't expect 135 guys to scrutinize where their flying is coming from. Let them do their jobs and let'd do ours.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Ignorance is no excuse.

 

[SCT]

Cabbie, will the caterer be on the scab list, too?

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Warren HATES negative press.

Yes, picketers in Omaha are negative press, but his interference with legal picketing would be far worse.

Our union has already had some of our "negative" (against Warren and JH) ads in the main Omaha newspaper which, coincidentally, BH owns. It would have been easy for Warren to stop those, but he didn't. It would have been worse press for him to be seen interfering with the press than what those ads provided.

I'm sure the police will appreciate the hot chocolate. Thanks. I'll be there walking with my peers. Can't wait to see your hot chocolate booth.

Warren usually has no trouble avoiding negative press because the press loves him.
The APA 30 minute strike of 1996 proved that without national backing, all you have is a pilot club.
Hot Chocolate! Cool. Wish I could be there. There will be other pickets. Maybe Omaha next year or 2017?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Cabbie, will the caterer be on the scab list, too?

Please SCT. Don't tell me they want us to start preparing the catering too.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Bent, It doesn't matter if they are union or non-union. If they do work that is subject to a work action, then they will be considered scabs. Once they are on the scab list, you are always on the scab list...Even after you have passed. Next in line are the mom and pop charter companies. After that if an fbo puts fuel in one of those planes, they get added to the list.

Sorry, GC. You're reaching, but not getting there.

Using your analogy, let's say one of the legacy airline carriers gets released to self help and strikes. By your definition, anyone flying for another carrier, moving passengers between cities that the striking carrier serves - along with the fueling services they use, etc, etc, are all scabs.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Trying to misapply the term scab is not going to help the cause.

 

[G4dude]

Ignorance is no excuse.

Coercion by union goons is such a charming thing.

 

[CMI]

I disagree. I've worked 135 charter and am currently on the NJA seniority list. I had no idea who was paying what to who when I flew mom and pop. I was told 3 pax from A to B. I worried about WX, numbers, and duty time. That's it. I didn't care who was coming from where and wouldn't expect a 135 guy to either. The only definition of a scab that I can support is of a pilot that crosses a picket line to fly a QS tail. Period. Even if the 135 guy knew that it was a NJA selloff it isn't his fight. He's at his job flying his bird and what happens above him is irrelevant. We can't expect 135 guys to scrutinize where their flying is coming from. Let them do their jobs and let'd do ours.

Correct. Just do a Web search for scab.

Too bad the new union at TM will most likely not work. The biggest union mongers at TM have one foot out the door looking for other jobs, No B@LLS / OVERIES. Most pilots are full of hot air and management knows it.

 

[shanes123]

Cabbie. We agree on most issues. But you. Ant expect some charter pilot flying a ******************** job worst than flops to know who is paying the bill on his charter. I think you need to rethink that statement

 

[Praetorian]

Bylaws can be changed. Repeatedly.

It's not a bylaw thing thing. It's a DOL thing.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sorry, GC. You're reaching, but not getting there.

Using your analogy, let's say one of the legacy airline carriers gets released to self help and strikes. By your definition, anyone flying for another carrier, moving passengers between cities that the striking carrier serves - along with the fueling services they use, etc, etc, are all scabs.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Trying to misapply the term scab is not going to help the cause.

False analogy. Its doing the work that is being struck. Like flying an airplane with United or Eastern on it during their strife. Hope that helps you understand.

 

[BentOver]

The only scab list in aviation, that I know of, has absolutely NO 91k/91/135 pilots on it....

For the most part those pilot groups cannot jumpseat, non-rev etc etc.... So going up to the cockpit to ask for a ride and getting compared to a scab list is a moot point.

Some lowly 91 charter pilot working in Kalamazoo for Bob's air charters is not going to have his aviation career come down to working a selloff from Netjets... Regional interviewers don't care, and Legacy carriers care even
Less... Especially about the corporate/ charter world...

NJASAP couldn't track selloffs during the furlough.. They sure the heck wouldn't be able to track hundreds of selloffs a day....

In the 121 world flights are required to be sold under an airlines "call sign". Take for example the Spirit strike.. Falcon Air operated those flights as "Spirit 2099"... You can bet Spirit management wishes they could have hidden the flights but no Bueno ...

In the 91k/91/135 world there is no such requirement... Execjet900 easily becomes N200JB from TEB- PBI... With Uncle Buffet seated in the back...

With basically two Union companies in the 91/91k/135 world there is not a whole lot of pull to pursuade a 25 yr old pilot not to accept a flight... To make matters worse, NJA is not the most liked company in corporate aviation.. A lot of departments closed because NJA could do it more efficiently with less hassle...

In the end, doing a trip for Netjets customers is no where near as detrimental to ones career as crossing a picket line at a 121 airline. Even if NJaSAP could figure out a way to track them all...