OMG! ROFLMAO! "Management by TRUST" by Kenn Ricci

[glasspilot]

make You

 

[glasspilot]

look Very

 

[glasspilot]

unstable...

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Well after you've drunk the Kool_aid, after accusing ME of doing so way back when, don't say I didn't warn you. He's good...VERY good, but you have the privelege of experience to warn you. Expect NOTHING less than NJs contract (in fact MORE since Flops, like SW cuts corners on everything else).

KR knows full well that we're about to hit another upswing in the industry, so he needs to move fast in restoring us back to years ago wages (nevermind all that has been lost in between then) because everyone is "so scared" about fuel and the rest of the industry right now. Well, we aren't going away anytime soon, and all it will take is a sale to a bigger nonunion group and decert will happen instantly.

I hope there is a way to protect that, WORSE YET, the NJ's guys dumped IBT perhaps so we won't be the same union, so their BIGGER group will have no qualms about stapling the entire flops group to the bottom. Yup, laugh, but I'll pull this post up yet again when it happens. After all, we're ALL in the "USED aircraft" business now aren't we? One & the same :nuts:

(BTW "Glass Pilot" obviously you don't even work for a frac based on your a/c profile, so what makes you think YOU know how "unstable" my words are? You haven't a CLUE what is going on here)

 

[ProFracPilot]

Well, we aren't going away anytime soon, and all it will take is a sale to a bigger nonunion group and decert will happen instantly.

WORSE YET, the NJ's guys dumped IBT perhaps so we won't be the same union, so their BIGGER group will have no qualms about stapling the entire flops group to the bottom.

VOR-

I've been around KR for a long time. He knows that he will need to earn our trust. And while all indications are he's working quickly to regain it, he also knows it will take time. A review of the TA (when it is complete) will give us all quite a bit of insight to just how much trust he wants from the pilots.

I'm sure KR doesn't want Flight Options to be hamstrung by a CBA. However, a comprehensive scope clause will go a long way towards protecting us from the scenario you proffer. I think we all need to see how the scope clause will read before we start worrying about the sky falling.

Remember, a TA is just that - a TENTATIVE Agreement. Once we've all had a chance to review TA, and if we conclude scope doesn't have has sufficient teeth, then we'll have to vote it down.

 

[hangarrat]

(BTW "Glass Pilot" obviously you don't even work for a frac based on your a/c profile, so what makes you think YOU know how "unstable" my words are? You haven't a CLUE what is going on here)

oh ye of little knowledge. thou hast begged the wrath of glass to come down upon thee. Translated - "did you see the P180 in his profile?" uh - duh - 5th largest and growing...

 

[Voice Of Reason]

VOR-

I've been around KR for a long time.

Join the club....

I'm sure KR doesn't want Flight Options to be hamstrung by a CBA. However, a comprehensive scope clause will go a long way towards protecting us from the scenario you proffer. I think we all need to see how the scope clause will read before we start worrying about the sky falling.

Um, the "sky" already "fell" under his watch (hence the union in the first place), then sold us down the river to much worse devils (to our faces anyway)...they did much more dirty work (the last of which happened while he was back on the property)...and experience says we will be sold yet again.
I'm just SAYIN'....

 

[ProFracPilot]

...and experience says we will be sold yet again.

I won't dispute the possiblity. My point is if scope is crafted properly in the CBA, it shouldn't matter.

You did bring up a good point in a prior post when you commented about NJA pilots leaving 1108. I know there is an agreement between 1108 and ASAP to work together on "future projects". I would like to learn more about what exactly this agreement outlines. Perhaps the structure has already been put in place for seniority list integration that could result from a merger.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I won't dispute the possiblity. My point is if scope is crafted properly in the CBA, it shouldn't matter.

You did bring up a good point in a prior post when you commented about NJA pilots leaving 1108. I know there is an agreement between 1108 and ASAP to work together on "future projects". I would like to learn more about what exactly this agreement outlines. Perhaps the structure has already been put in place for seniority list integration that could result from a merger.

KR is only slightly ahead of the trustworthy curve than that group, I would hope we have learned by now....(even PRIOR to the recent 'controversy')

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I won't dispute the possiblity. My point is if scope is crafted properly in the CBA, it shouldn't matter.

Is it possible to craft a scope that will survive through:
- a company that has a bigger (and anti-union) group of pilots acquires or is acquired by Flops?
- a company that has a bigger (DIFFERENT union) pilot group that acquires or is acquired by Flops (and may staple...what if THEY have an iron clad scope clause)?
-Flops selling off the operation in parts
-Flops turning the operation into something other than fractional (charter, lease, managed, new variation of operating not yet named that KR will again "invent")?
-Contract pilots flooding the operation
????
Just a few things to think about

 

[ProFracPilot]

Is it possible to craft a scope that will survive through:
- a company that has a bigger (and anti-union) group of pilots acquires or is acquired by Flops?
- a company that has a bigger (DIFFERENT union) pilot group that acquires or is acquired by Flops (and may staple...what if THEY have an iron clad scope clause)?
-Flops selling off the operation in parts
-Flops turning the operation into something other than fractional (charter, lease, managed, new variation of operating not yet named that KR will again "invent")?
-Contract pilots flooding the operation
????

I'm no expert on scope or CBA's, but I'd guess it is impossible to craft a scope clause that would cover every possible angle. If I don't like (or understand) what I'm reading in any portion of the TA - but especially the scope clause - when we get it, I'll be questioning our union leadership. I strongly encourage all who will be affected by this TA to do the same.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I hope there is a way to protect that, WORSE YET, the NJ's guys dumped IBT perhaps so we won't be the same union, so their BIGGER group will have no qualms about stapling the entire flops group to the bottom. Yup, laugh, but I'll pull this post up yet again when it happens. After all, we're ALL in the "USED aircraft" business now aren't we? One & the same :nuts:

Why the hell would NJA want a steaming pile of Beechjets?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Why the hell would NJA want a steaming pile of Beechjets?

...because the BBJs were such big sellers, and the rest of the fleet is mostly all still so "new"

 

[wacoflyr]

Is this some kind of stream of consciousness post? 'Cause you keep hitting the post tab before you get it all out. If this is working for you, keep at it. What ever it takes to get healthy. We understand.

Wacoflyr

 

[netjetwife]

I won't dispute the possiblity. My point is if scope is crafted properly in the CBA, it shouldn't matter. I agree with that.

You did bring up a good point in a prior post when you commented about NJA pilots leaving 1108. I know there is an agreement between 1108 and ASAP to work together on "future projects". I would like to learn more about what exactly this agreement outlines. The idea is to work together on industry wide issues (like user fees) that will affect both pilotgroups. Perhaps the structure has already been put in place for seniority list integration that could result from a merger. The only structure that has been put in place is the new EBoard position -- VP of Industry Affairs...

The paranoia directed at those who spent lots of time, money, and energy helping a fellow frac group is undeserved and down-right sad. The primary motivation in leaving the Teamsters was a strong desire to be independent and a firm belief that the NJ pilots were, in reality, already going it alone and doing a far better job in the process. They deserved a good reputation based on their own merits, and all of their dues money to do more for the NJ pilots while better representing their own interests in industry affairs. If there was a secondary motive concerning another pilotgroup, I believe it was thought that an in-house association would be more appealing to the NJI pilots.

Good luck on the upcoming TA and remember Scope--it's more than a mouthwash!