Old Geezer

[luckytohaveajob]

"I am fellow regional pilot and I have holes in my jeans that I can't even afford to patch. I wear velcro shoes to work beacause they are practical, not just for looks. I use an ipod to block all the PA noise in the terminal, and I use a camelback water cooler system to quench my thirst between flights. And Yes I have a high school back pack for my personal trip kit. I know that I do not represent the image of the "ideal pilot" making $250,000/year like in the good ole' days, but I'm not-I'm am an underpaid ($19/hr) F/O flying for a wannabe airline thats just trying to pay his cellphone bill. But hey, thanks for the input."

I omitted the name on the quote because this post is representative of the problem this thread is all about. This above TYPE of individual is the problem with the industry. Professionalism is not about PAY. It is an ATTITUDE.

An attitude that should show respect for yourself and those that look at you.

If an individual looks like as described above what message does that send a passenger or even another pilot? I know it sends the message that this person is much more than a slob in his appearance but a slob in life, in his mind, and in his actions. It shows that this person does not care about himself much less those he is entrusted to safely deliver from point A to B. It shows this person does not care. Does this pilot know his limitations? Does this pilot lie on the weight and balance? Does this person take irresponsible risks?

This issues has nothing to do with the state of the industry. It has to do with the state of the individual and whether you want someone like this flying your family and friends.

If this type of individual can afford an IPod and a Camelback, he can afford to wear a clean pair of slacks and a collared shirt instead of holy jeans. It all a choice and this type of person has no excuse. Again this issue is HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PAY.

 

[EWR_FO]

I think it was a joke.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I can appreciate CaptBud's longing for the good ole days, but his post fails to strike a chord with me for the simple fact of not assuming any responsibility for the way the industry is today. The industry is a reflection of society, and it's just about the same for all industries, not just the airlines.

The GenXer's and GenYer's are picking up right where the Baby Boomers and the "Greatest Generation" left off. I for one am a getting a little tired of hearing about how great the "Greatest Generation" was... sure they fought to save the world from oppression, but you can't tell me that today's generation (fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan) wouldnt have risen to the occasion as well.

I know they also made tremendous contributions to society when they returned home, but let us not forget that the Greatest Generation gave birth to, and raised the Baby Boomers... the ones who were the first to ditch the suits, ties, hats, bras, grow their hair long, introduce the "leisure suit", proliferate widescale social drug use, and rebel against "the establishment".

I'm no prude, and am grateful for a lot of the social change we have seen over the years, but it chaps my ass whenever some old timer complains about society today and how my generation has ruined it. I just thank them for passing the baton.

 

[airksk]

I think he's 150% correct.

Up early there Jonny!

Hope you had a good Christmas, I'll be in touch.

 

[ils2minimums]

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

or is it elephants? Hell, I can never remember...

 

[CF34-3B1]

I can appreciate CaptBud's longing for the good ole days, but his post fails to strike a chord with me for the simple fact of not assuming any responsibility for the way the industry is today. The industry is a reflection of society, and it's just about the same for all industries, not just the airlines.

The GenXer's and GenYer's are picking up right where the Baby Boomers and the "Greatest Generation" left off. I for one am a getting a little tired of hearing about how great the "Greatest Generation" was... sure they fought to save the world from oppression, but you can't tell me that today's generation (fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan) wouldnt have risen to the occasion as well.

I know they also made tremendous contributions to society when they returned home, but let us not forget that the Greatest Generation gave birth to, and raised the Baby Boomers... the ones who were the first to ditch the suits, ties, hats, bras, grow their hair long, introduce the "leisure suit", proliferate widescale social drug use, and rebel against "the establishment".

I'm no prude, and am grateful for a lot of the social change we have seen over the years, but it chaps my ass whenever some old timer complains about society today and how my generation has ruined it. I just thank them for passing the baton.

I agree 100%. The problems began long before Todd the iPod listening backpack wearing RJ FO was born.

Alfred Kahn, Lorenzo, bin Laden, 400k a yr ALPA politicians, there's plenty of blame to go around.

I have no tolerance for sloppy uniform standards, and always took pride in my appearance, even when I was a $16/hr FO, but blaming genX or genY for the demise of the industry is simply sticking your head in the sand.

30 years from now, I'm sure the Old Geezers of my generation will be posting about the good old days before Air Botswana was flying from JFK to LAX using $270 a month A350 Captains.

 

[727C47]

the leather jacket for me is symbolic of our round engine, tail draggin,all weather open cockpit roots, I wear the traditional blazer and stripes,but our company allows the leather jacket, I look at the leather as a homage to our ancestors,not unprofessional at all,my.02 cents

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Approved uniform options are not unprofessional. Backpacks, stickers, colored luggage, no ties when they are required, no hats when they are required, are the issue.

I was on the crew van a few months ago and saw an RJ captain carrying a parachute. She was taking her parachute to work. She was probably going to be using it after the trip or commuting home after the trip. But she was clearly carrying a parachute outside of any covering bag that it should have been carried in.

She looked ridiculous. Imagine the impression this RJ captain gave as she walked down the terminal with one strap of her parachute slung over her shoulder. She was an embarrassment to the whole airline and her profession.

 

[sleeves]

Sorry guys, but you should show this gentleman some respect. It's not his fault this industry is AFU. I happen to agree with him.

Agreed, perception means a lot.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is called professional self-discipline. It is the very same discipline that drives you to fly an approach on-speed, touch down on the centerline, and in the touchdown zone.

It is the same discipline that makes you take care when you perform a walkaround, despite the cold rain and wind.

It is the same discipline you display when you take pride in providing your customers (not passengers... customers) with a smooth, comfortable, and safe flight -- not because you have to, but because you want to.

You know who you are because that pride in yourself and your profession carries over to your everyday life. It shows in the way you raise your children. It shows in how neat you keep your lawn, and in the appearance of your home. You have pride in yourself and the job that you do.

That pride means shining your shoes, a straight (clean) tie, a crisp jacket, and wearing your hat if the company ops manual requires that it be worn. The first impression you make on your customers is one of excellence. When they look at you, they imagine that you take every bit as much care in the operation of your aircraft.

When I flew a turboprop for $13500 per year I wore my uniform with pride. I polished my shoes, I wore my coat, and yes -- my hat as well. It has nothing to do with whether or not some other generation left this profession a mess. Maybe it did. But my decision to dress and act with professional self- discipline has more to do with my character and the way that I was raised than it does about what I get paid.

Bud is 100% right. Some of you folks should be ashamed.

 

[FlyinHigh737]

Well, we have vented a lot of opinions here in a very short period of time. We have gone from a simple dress code to deregulation; maybe, just maybe we should take a look in a mirror. Remember the days you would give anything to fly for a commuter airliner and then the majors. Maybe it was the uniform, women or pay, for what ever reason it was something you worked hard for. We all choose this profession, we all applied, interviewed and accepted employment, and now a few complain about the pay, work rules ect…. Yes, the daily grind gets all of us, commuting to work the crowds and working on the Holidays, but man what a view in our office. And what about that future pilot that is 8 years old, looking up at your loose tie and rolled up sleeves, and your cavalier attitude, only out for what you think is fair. So, back to the mirror, I am the only one that can change myself, I will shine my shoes (2 minutes at a cost of 25 cents), I will press my shirt (free ironing board and iron), I will buy wool blend pants instead of cotton dockers ( 45 dollars and will last me one year) and I will walk with pride down the jet way. Because I know, at the end of the day, I did the best I know how to do, I know that looked after our passengers and fellow crew members as best I could and I did it with pride. The uniform expresses this pride!!!!!!!

 

[vetrider]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is called professional self-discipline. It is the very same discipline that drives you to fly an approach on-speed, touch down on the centerline, and in the touchdown zone.

It is the same discipline that makes you take care when you perform a walkaround, despite the cold rain and wind.

It is the same discipline you display when you take pride in providing your customers (not passengers... customers) with a smooth, comfortable, and safe flight -- not because you have to, but because you want to.

You know who you are because that pride in yourself and your profession carries over to your everyday life. It shows in the way you raise your children. It shows in how neat you keep your lawn, and in the appearance of your home. You have pride in yourself and the job that you do.

That pride means shining your shoes, a straight (clean) tie, a crisp jacket, and wearing your hat if the company ops manual requires that it be worn. The first impression you make on your customers is one of excellence. When they look at you, they imagine that you take every bit as much care in the operation of your aircraft.

When I flew a turboprop for $13500 per year I wore my uniform with pride. I polished my shoes, I wore my coat, and yes -- my hat as well. It has nothing to do with whether or not some other generation left this profession a mess. Maybe it did. But my decision to dress and act with professional self- discipline has more to do with my character and the way that I was raised than it does about what I get paid.

Bud is 100% right. Some of you folks should be ashamed.

That is spot on Bender.

 

[BeCareful!]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is called professional self-discipline. It is the very same discipline that drives you to fly an approach on-speed, touch down on the centerline, and in the touchdown zone.

It is the same discipline that makes you take care when you perform a walkaround, despite the cold rain and wind.

It is the same discipline you display when you take pride in providing your customers (not passengers... customers) with a smooth, comfortable, and safe flight -- not because you have to, but because you want to.

You know who you are because that pride in yourself and your profession carries over to your everyday life. It shows in the way you raise your children. It shows in how neat you keep your lawn, and in the appearance of your home. You have pride in yourself and the job that you do.

That pride means shining your shoes, a straight (clean) tie, a crisp jacket, and wearing your hat if the company ops manual requires that it be worn. The first impression you make on your customers is one of excellence. When they look at you, they imagine that you take every bit as much care in the operation of your aircraft.

When I flew a turboprop for $13500 per year I wore my uniform with pride. I polished my shoes, I wore my coat, and yes -- my hat as well. It has nothing to do with whether or not some other generation left this profession a mess. Maybe it did. But my decision to dress and act with professional self- discipline has more to do with my character and the way that I was raised than it does about what I get paid.

Bud is 100% right. Some of you folks should be ashamed.

True, BG. Good post, but there is plenty of shame to go around, and much of it on the senior folks that have dominated the rank and file and the MECs the past five years.

I'll agree that my paycheck shouldn't dictate how well I wear my uniform at work, but all the shoe polish on Earth wouldn't have changed the behavior and the unbelievable greed of the senior pilots during this downturn. 95 hours/month with 1879 pilots on the street? Pushing age 60 change? $46/hour pay rates (third year pay!) for positions they knew they would never have to work? Allowing vacation to be cut to ONE week through the 7th year? Not a big sacrifice when there's no one on the property with less than 15 years. I think all of this is shameful.

I'm not sure you can quantify which is more shameful; guess it depends on your date of hire.

 

[Flopgut]

No one should hesitate to give a uniform correction, and be humble enough accept one. You have to periodcally re-dedicate yourself to appearance. Frankly, in the last 6 years I have had some times when I had no time to get new slacks fitted or my coat cleaned when I would have liked. It seems I've had just enough time off to recover from the flying I just did and rest for what I have coming up! And I'm sure I have better work rules than some of the guys/gals starting out. Some pilots are almost living in their uniform.

Don't buy a new guy who's dressed shabby beers, buy him/her some shoes!

 

[glasspilot1]

No ties?

no ties when they are required

I've seen a lot of stuff, but no ties? I hope you don't mean down in ops or in the cockpit.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

No Glasspilot1, I mean walking in broad daylight down the terminal with an unbuttoned open collar without a tie wearing a pilot shirt with epilets(spelling), pilot slacks in black shoes rolling a flight bag down the terminal at a major international airport.

I have also seen these express pilots wearing fleece vests, unapproved golf/workout jackets, and black tennis shoes. I even met another jump seater on a flight I was jump seating on sporting a tongue ring as he opened his mouth to speak.

It is not an uncommon sight. These express guys have no idea what they are doing in the terminal and look like flight instructors at a GA airport.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Bender has it right!

The gen X and Y are characterized by allowing their expectations determine their ambition rather than the other way round. Thus they feel vindicated by blaming those they feel were responsible for the mess they put themselves in.

The geezers were the ones who went on strike to establish the pay rates that were the envy of the world. Now when they are forced to adapt to major life changes beyond their control (as opposed to the whining and blaming of the oh-ryans, et. al.) they are told that something that would help everyone adapt to the new realities, such as abolishing Age 60, are off the table.

I looked up to the geezers and still do. My ambitions were bolstered by their attempts to live up to expectations. And while not nearly at the top, I can still enjoy the satisfaction of fulfilling my life's ambition.

Thanks geezers!

 

[Oh-ryan]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is called professional self-discipline. It is the very same discipline that drives you to fly an approach on-speed, touch down on the centerline, and in the touchdown zone.

It is the same discipline that makes you take care when you perform a walkaround, despite the cold rain and wind.

It is the same discipline you display when you take pride in providing your customers (not passengers... customers) with a smooth, comfortable, and safe flight -- not because you have to, but because you want to.

You know who you are because that pride in yourself and your profession carries over to your everyday life. It shows in the way you raise your children. It shows in how neat you keep your lawn, and in the appearance of your home. You have pride in yourself and the job that you do.

That pride means shining your shoes, a straight (clean) tie, a crisp jacket, and wearing your hat if the company ops manual requires that it be worn. The first impression you make on your customers is one of excellence. When they look at you, they imagine that you take every bit as much care in the operation of your aircraft.

When I flew a turboprop for $13500 per year I wore my uniform with pride. I polished my shoes, I wore my coat, and yes -- my hat as well. It has nothing to do with whether or not some other generation left this profession a mess. Maybe it did. But my decision to dress and act with professional self- discipline has more to do with my character and the way that I was raised than it does about what I get paid.

Bud is 100% right. Some of you folks should be ashamed.

BG,
You had me right up until you told all of us who disagree with Bud to be ashamed. You and Bud are right, you fly a plane with customers on board, look like a professional... I don't care how much you are being paid. But, let's take a look at the days in which all pilots wore pressed uniforms and shined shoes... I seem to recall during those times men wearing suits and hats to ballgames and church, TV not showing a man and a wife sharing a bed... you know all of that George and Harriet / Ricky and Lucy stuff. Fastforward 50 years society is a much different place. Do I see the FO with an iPod and wrinkled pants and think to myself "jees what a slouch"... you bet I do. I also think that about the teller at the bank with a stain on his shirt, the guy wearing cutoff jeans to church, the girl working as cashier at the department store with the low riders on. Society has allowed all this to happen and not just to pilots. The bar has been lowered across the board starting with the Greatest Generation all the way to Gen Y. Is this an excuse, nope, not at all. I've just come to expect less from the people I bump in to during my day to day life (not just pilots). I will continue to expect nothing but the best effort from myself and my kids though.

The problem with Bud's argument is that he addressed it as problem in aviation. I disagree and say that its reflection of the society we live in. You tell anyone who disagrees to be ashamed. Thanks for your input.

 

[scoreboard]

Now with no hats, ties optional and leather jackets, I just wonder where the pride went.

This is the statement I have a heartburn with, since when do hats and leather jackets make or break your pride? I've never seen a pilot without a tie. Care to elaborate Capt "I got mine"? Your point on appearance are true, be clean, sharp, polished. But how do these specific uniform items identify that with them or without them your a prideless individual? Flambait if you ask me.

 

[Flopgut]

Bender has it right!

The gen X and Y are characterized by allowing their expectations determine their ambition rather than the other way round. Thus they feel vindicated by blaming those they feel were responsible for the mess they put themselves in.

The geezers were the ones who went on strike to establish the pay rates that were the envy of the world. Now when they are forced to adapt to major life changes beyond their control (as opposed to the whining and blaming of the oh-ryans, et. al.) they are told that something that would help everyone adapt to the new realities, such as abolishing Age 60, are off the table.

I looked up to the geezers and still do. My ambitions were bolstered by their attempts to live up to expectations. And while not nearly at the top, I can still enjoy the satisfaction of fulfilling my life's ambition.

Thanks geezers!

You're a little confused on the whole good geezer/bad geezer thing. The good geezers are the ones who persevered, made a plan for the worst but hoped for the best, and got themselves ready for retirement. The bad geezers (the ones who screwed up the whole industry) are the greed wracked, self absorbed ones that sold out the bottom for themselves in the last few years.

Get yourself some better geezers.