OK, SO who's next...

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

If you think that then are you concerned that one of the big three will buy SWA? When you think about it, think of the domestic domination that would create. As you say Market Share!

Actually, It was directed at you, without calling you out... You keep telling yourself that "we are exclusive to Hawaiians" you're kidding yourself, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO TICKET PRICE!!! How many people live in Hawaii? 1,392,313 people, out of those, how many leave the Islands? I have friends from there, I understand "Hawaiian pride" but the almighty dollar is king, you keep telling yourself otherwise.

And I'm not in denial, Yes, SW could be bought, but more likely from corporate pirates, you know, Berkshire Hathaways' or TPG types. Come in, Mortgage all the planes to the hilt and clean out the Bank accounts. As far as Berkshire, Buffett already knows you don't make money with airlines!

Yes, we have the largest domestic feed in the country, but it would take very deep pockets! And lots of Antitrust Government issues.

That's going to be the catch with Alaska, With their stock price through the roof, it's going to get very expensive for anyone to but them. Buyout, unlikely, Merger with Stock swap, Likely!

Good Luck,
KBB

 

[Full of LUV]

Actually, It was directed at you, without calling you out... You keep telling yourself that "we are exclusive to Hawaiians" you're kidding yourself, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO TICKET PRICE!!! How many people live in Hawaii? 1,392,313 people, out of those, how many leave the Islands? I have friends from there, I understand "Hawaiian pride" but the almighty dollar is king, you keep telling yourself otherwise.

And I'm not in denial, Yes, SW could be bought, but more likely from corporate pirates, you know, Berkshire Hathaways' or TPG types. Come in, Mortgage all the planes to the hilt and clean out the Bank accounts. As far as Berkshire, Buffett already knows you don't make money with airlines!

Yes, we have the largest domestic feed in the country, but it would take very deep pockets! And lots of Antitrust Government issues.

That's going to be the catch with Alaska, With their stock price through the roof, it's going to get very expensive for anyone to but them. Buyout, unlikely, Merger with Stock swap, Likely!

Good Luck,
KBB

KBB,
It's not really about the 1.4 million Hawaiians, they will fly when they have to on whoever is available. It's about HAL's importance to the HI economy and the state government doing whatever it could to disrupt a takeover of HAL.
HAL is focused on direct service to HNL from multiple cities in overseas and CONUS on a mostly tourist market.
Most people and politicians in Hawaii would suspect whoever tookover HI would probably redeploy most of it's aircraft to higher yielding routes, thus causing unemployment to a lot of the HAL employees over time, but more importantly not bringing in the hoardes of well healed overseas tourists that Hawaii depends on for thier tourism/government based economy.
Hawaii would deploy a full frontal political attack, could it happen anyway, probably, but would there be much benefit to the acquiring airline other than an instant acquisition of a fleet of Airbi and 717's?

 

[scoreboardII]

That full frontal political attack by Denver/Colorado helped F9 in what way?

As has been said, ticket price is all that matters, thats who will survive in the market, not some company artificially held up by a local government, which when a local government inserts itself into the choice of who survives in and of itself is antitrust.

 

[Dan Roman]

KBB,
It's not really about the 1.4 million Hawaiians, they will fly when they have to on whoever is available. It's about HAL's importance to the HI economy and the state government doing whatever it could to disrupt a takeover of HAL.
HAL is focused on direct service to HNL from multiple cities in overseas and CONUS on a mostly tourist market.
Most people and politicians in Hawaii would suspect whoever tookover HI would probably redeploy most of it's aircraft to higher yielding routes, thus causing unemployment to a lot of the HAL employees over time, but more importantly not bringing in the hoardes of well healed overseas tourists that Hawaii depends on for thier tourism/government based economy.
Hawaii would deploy a full frontal political attack, could it happen anyway, probably, but would there be much benefit to the acquiring airline other than an instant acquisition of a fleet of Airbi and 717's?

Said it better than me again!

 

[Dan Roman]

That full frontal political attack by Denver/Colorado helped F9 in what way?

Score, I don't mean this as an attack but the fact that you think that is the same indicates little knowledge of Hawaii, and again, nothing personal. It's just much different here. For starters, F9 doesn't fly over 50% of ALL passengers in and out of DEN. In HNL, HA does. F9 is not the largest employer in the DEN area with most of the residents having friends or relatives working there, Hawaiian is. Denver is no were near as dependent on the air travel as Hawaii is, Hawaii's economy is totally dependent on air travel. The UAL strike here hit the economy much much harder in Hawaii than it did in DEN, even though both are large UAL hubs. Hawaiian Air is integral to Hawaii's economy, that's not just my opinion, it's been documented. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. I haven't even started on what happens to "outsiders" trying to muscle in on local institutions, suffice to say it is a tougher transition than in other places if done wrong.

 

[Dan Roman]

As has been said, ticket price is all that matters, thats who will survive in the market, not some company artificially held up by a local government, which when a local government inserts itself into the choice of who survives in and of itself is antitrust.

The government still has a say in who can and cannot merge. That said, I'm saying just the grass routes opposition would be enough to make a merger with anyone very problematic. Speaking of Government intervention, isn't that what the Wright amendment was all about? I really don't know much about it, but I thought there was something about who can or cannot fly out of LUV, or how far?

 

[igneousy2]

Score, I don't mean this as an attack but the fact that you think that is the same indicates little knowledge of Hawaii, and again, nothing personal. It's just much different here. For starters, F9 doesn't fly over 50% of ALL passengers in and out of DEN. In HNL, HA does. F9 is not the largest employer in the DEN area with most of the residents having friends or relatives working there, Hawaiian is. Denver is no were near as dependent on the air travel as Hawaii is, Hawaii's economy is totally dependent on air travel. The UAL strike here hit the economy much much harder in Hawaii than it did in DEN, even though both are large UAL hubs. Hawaiian Air is integral to Hawaii's economy, that's not just my opinion, it's been documented. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. I haven't even started on what happens to "outsiders" trying to muscle in on local institutions, suffice to say it is a tougher transition than in other places if done wrong.

And the state of Hawaii is going to get a say because??? Last time I checked, this was interstate commerce, which is the exclusive jurisdiction of the feds, so it would be a bunch of "haoles" on the mainland making the decision, or more accurately, NOT MAKING the decision to intervene.

If it's going to stop it's going to stop with the shareholders. If the shareholders approve a sale, I cannot imagine any federal official doing anything to stop it. Heaven forbid we upset Senator Schatz THE junior senator in congress.

 

[General Lee]

Losing Sen. Inoweye doesn't help HAL any. Just sayin....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

KBB,
It's not really about the 1.4 million Hawaiians, they will fly when they have to on whoever is available. It's about HAL's importance to the HI economy and the state government doing whatever it could to disrupt a takeover of HAL.
HAL is focused on direct service to HNL from multiple cities in overseas and CONUS on a mostly tourist market.
Most people and politicians in Hawaii would suspect whoever tookover HI would probably redeploy most of it's aircraft to higher yielding routes, thus causing unemployment to a lot of the HAL employees over time, but more importantly not bringing in the hoardes of well healed overseas tourists that Hawaii depends on for thier tourism/government based economy.
Hawaii would deploy a full frontal political attack, could it happen anyway, probably, but would there be much benefit to the acquiring airline other than an instant acquisition of a fleet of Airbi and 717's?

So, you're saying that HAL, as a publicly traded company whose management has the fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits and shareholder value, would not go after the highest yielding routes possible?
Even if this were the case, an acquiring entity could easily get past local regulatory approval by contractually guaranteeing that certain routes would be preserved as well as local employment rates.

 

[jonjuan]

Besides, people still fly with whomever has the cheapest ticket.
I was bored today and called many family and friends on the West coast and asked about trips to Hawaii and specifically asked about airlines. In every case, they said they flew the airline that had the cheapest ticket, many cases in F.
It appears that vacations start upon arrival.

 

[Dan Roman]

Besides, people still fly with whomever has the cheapest ticket.
I was bored today and called many family and friends on the West coast and asked about trips to Hawaii and specifically asked about airlines. In every case, they said they flew the airline that had the cheapest ticket, many cases in F.
It appears that vacations start upon arrival.

Not sure what yield management has to do with the discussion? Hawaiian does in fact enjoy a strong marketing advantage, but no question about it, fare wars lower everyone's yield. The last comment is wrong. Hawaiian carries a lot of passengers because they are "Hawaiian", but they do have to remain competitive pricing wise. That said, I saw the figures published somewhere, the average yield per ticket was higher on Hawaiian than any other carrier to Hawaii, not by much, but they do get a premium.

 

[Dan Roman]

And the state of Hawaii is going to get a say because??? Last time I checked, this was interstate commerce, which is the exclusive jurisdiction of the feds, so it would be a bunch of "haoles" on the mainland making the decision, or more accurately, NOT MAKING the decision to intervene.

If it's going to stop it's going to stop with the shareholders. If the shareholders approve a sale, I cannot imagine any federal official doing anything to stop it. Heaven forbid we upset Senator Schatz THE junior senator in congress.

I'm not arguing the point that business is business. To certain extent you are right. If it would be a beneficial transaction it would happen. My point is, if anyone tried to buy Hawaiian, it would be clear that the transaction would not be beneficial to Hawaii. The results would be that the backlash would put into play the benefit to the shareholders and their rights vs the common good. (sorry, 2 glasses of wine and I get erudite in my own mind)

 

[Dan Roman]

The reality is, Hawaiian works as Hawaiian Air. It really isn't that much of a plus to say, Delta.

 

[General Lee]

The reality is, Hawaiian works as Hawaiian Air. It really isn't that much of a plus to say, Delta.

Dan,

Would it help Delta if Hawaiian, the competitor, wasn't there? How much would that be worth? Just askin.... All just hypothetical, but I think you are thinking about it differently. Some people may want your airline around, and some might not. Some CEOs didn't put much fight into arguing against an AA/US merger, primarily because it got rid of one more name on the internet screen for people to look at. Fewer names might mean higher fares, and more profits.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan,

Would it help Delta if Hawaiian, the competitor, wasn't there? How much would that be worth? Just askin.... All just hypothetical, but I think you are thinking about it differently. Some people may want your airline around, and some might not. Some CEOs didn't put much fight into arguing against an AA/US merger, primarily because it got rid of one more name on the internet screen for people to look at. Fewer names might mean higher fares, and more profits.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General,

You are 100% right, I am debating from the viewpoint you say, I say it's not always about just corporate profits. I say The Hawaiian/Hawaii situation is very unique. Hawaii would suffer much more than other location did when a small competitor was absorbed and downsized by a larger carrier. I also think we have a better chance of stopping it because of many reasons, most listed above. BUT, between you and I, I do acknowledge corporate realities (greed) could trump my argument.
As to your question, sure if Hawaiian was gone, it would create a void that would open all kinds of opportunity for not just Delta, but every carrier that flies to Hawaii and it would create an opening for lot's of new competitors to pounce. You would see SWA, VA, and doesn't Spirit have a bunch of NEO's on order? But all that potential new service may hurt DAL as much as help it and the loss of all Hawaiian does and has planned for Hawaii would be a greater loss than the gain of a few more competitors to the west coast.