ok.. I give, what did I miss?

[exm3585]

Oh comeon guys. I was kidding about the wife. I have been off 10 days, I go on a three day tomorrow, then I am home at noon Xmas eve, have Xmas off, then ...I go on the 4 day I picked up.


She knows I need a new planer. The one I have is too small. Here is the one I am buying...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00020BNPE/ref=ord_cart_shr/102-0233521-5462573?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

It is a 20".The one I have now is a 12"

(skip the lenght jokes please)

 

[CRJ puppy]

It is a 20".The one I have now is a 12"

(skip the lenght jokes please)

Dam n! I thought you were talking width, not length!

I was always told it was the width that counted more...

 

[Caveman]

I'm on 4th year Capt pay, very junior, and on reserve. I picked up one 3 day and one 4 day of extra flying this year. Gross wages for the year NOT counting per diem or retirement contribution: $74K+. So far this month I've spent a grand total of 2 nights away from home. In November it was 4 nights. I was off 139 days this year NOT counting vacation days. What is so bad about that kind of job?

 

[SLFLYHI]

Years ago, this was a stepping stone to bigger and better things. Now, it's a career for a lot of folks out there. The unions need to step forward and bring wages back up to professional levels. Quit settling for 90K as a 20-year Captain and demand it as a 4th year FO. Are people willing to wh*re themselves out to do it lower? Well, ever hear of a scab list? Do it!

This industry has lost a lot of respect, and nobody is doing anything to get it back.

Tool Alert! Dude, you obviously know little about the industry. What are the unions supposed to do? Union: we won't fly this RJ for less than $100/hr Company: fine. we'll just let (insert bottom feeder carrier here) airlines take what little flying we currently have cause they'll do it for $60/hr. Whatever. Get a clue.

I'm a second year FO at a REgionAL and I make more than enough to pay my bills, put food on our table, and occasionally buy a nice pair of shoes. I had no delusions getting into this, have no anger about my pay now, and when I upgrade in a year or less, I'll make more than 80% of ALL Americans at $60K a year.

The respect you talk about has nothing to do with our pay - it has everything to do with the fact that we've turned into cattle cars selling seats to people who probably can't even afford the parking at the airport much less an airplane ticket.

You'll never get rich at this job, but if you have half a brain, (and with the exception of your probationary year) you'll be able to have a decent living. If your university sold you on the two houses, boat, corvette, and rolex watches, then shame on them.

Steve
IAH FO

 

[flyinglow]

Tool Alert! Dude, you obviously know little about the industry. What are the unions supposed to do? Union: we won't fly this RJ for less than $100/hr Company: fine. we'll just let (insert bottom feeder carrier here) airlines take what little flying we currently have cause they'll do it for $60/hr. Whatever. Get a clue.

I'm a second year FO at a REgionAL and I make more than enough to pay my bills, put food on our table, and occasionally buy a nice pair of shoes. I had no delusions getting into this, have no anger about my pay now, and when I upgrade in a year or less, I'll make more than 80% of ALL Americans at $60K a year.

The respect you talk about has nothing to do with our pay - it has everything to do with the fact that we've turned into cattle cars selling seats to people who probably can't even afford the parking at the airport much less an airplane ticket.

You'll never get rich at this job, but if you have half a brain, (and with the exception of your probationary year) you'll be able to have a decent living. If your university sold you on the two houses, boat, corvette, and rolex watches, then shame on them.

Steve
IAH FO

Steve you sound a little contradictory in this piece. You have the "insert bottom feeder airline here" comment, now I don't know where you work but if you are getting a upgrade in 3 1/2 years than odds are you work for a bottom feeder or you need to lay off the Kool Aid.

Also thats a nice statistic. You may make more than 80% of Americans if you make 60K, however statistics are what you make of them. Try comparing apples to apples. Show me the salaries of other professional that are educated, highly trained and experienced, and take a Federal test twice a year to keep their job, and then get back to me.

 

[I.P. Freley]

What's driving this? People will do anything to call themselves an airline pilot, including working for LESS than Wal-Mart wages.

the W2's are still reflecting wages that are lower than the guy driving the Wonder Bread truck.

Sure, some will make close to 90K in a year, but it's going to take them at least a decade of surviving on food stamps to finally get there.

Perhaps I don't have a good handle on what a "new hire" bread truck driver or WalMart employee makes, but I'm fairly certain that a 2nd year FO at ComAir in the 70, for instance, makes over $40/hr.

Even at my not-exactly-industry-average company, a 3rd year Cap is making more than half of that magic $90k in a Saab. Let's keep our exaggerations in check, why don't we?

 

[Nindiri]

Also thats a nice statistic. You may make more than 80% of Americans if you make 60K, however statistics are what you make of them. Try comparing apples to apples. Show me the salaries of other professional that are educated, highly trained and experienced, and take a Federal test twice a year to keep their job, and then get back to me.

Teachers, for one example, make less than 30K in their first few years, and in most places top out well less than 100K at 30 years. After graduating from college, they have to pass additional testing to qualify as a public school teacher, and for the rest of their careers have to pass periodic additional training.

Besides, you guys are making this job a whole lot more complicated than it need be. Recurrent checkrides are not exactly a demanding task. You get in the box and do a few easy maneuvers and you're done two hours later. If you can't do a simple V1 cut, you shouldn't be in this line of work.

Of course, if anyone can find a way for us all to make more money, I'm more than happy to listen.

 

[flyinglow]

Teachers get alot more time off.

 

[Nindiri]

It's pretty close, actually. Teachers typically work 190 days a year, not counting any extra stuff like summer certification courses.

At 15 days a month, I work 180 days a year, minus vacation days off. Of course, I spend more time in hotels, but that's a pretty fair swap for not having to deal with bratty kids.

Cool avatar, btw.

 

[VABB]

Tool Alert! Dude, you obviously know little about the industry. What are the unions supposed to do? Union: we won't fly this RJ for less than $100/hr Company: fine. we'll just let (insert bottom feeder carrier here) airlines take what little flying we currently have cause they'll do it for $60/hr. Whatever. Get a clue.

I'm a second year FO at a REgionAL and I make more than enough to pay my bills, put food on our table, and occasionally buy a nice pair of shoes. I had no delusions getting into this, have no anger about my pay now, and when I upgrade in a year or less, I'll make more than 80% of ALL Americans at $60K a year.

The respect you talk about has nothing to do with our pay - it has everything to do with the fact that we've turned into cattle cars selling seats to people who probably can't even afford the parking at the airport much less an airplane ticket.

You'll never get rich at this job, but if you have half a brain, (and with the exception of your probationary year) you'll be able to have a decent living. If your university sold you on the two houses, boat, corvette, and rolex watches, then shame on them.

Steve
IAH FO

Wow, $60K as a Captain. I'll admit, $60K a year is good, but considering what one has to pay to get this far, you are operating at a loss. $60K seems like a lot now, but it won't seem like that much 10 years from now. I've seen the Continental Express pay scale (I'm assuming you're with them by the IAH FO) and you are not going to make much more than that. And, given the time value of money, you might be purchasing new shoes every couple of years.


"The respect you talk about has nothing to do with our pay - it has everything to do with the fact that we've turned into cattle cars selling seats to people who probably can't even afford the parking at the airport much less an airplane ticket."

People refer to Southwest Airlines as cattle cars, and you don't see their pilots flying for low wages. Pay has a lot to do with respect. You paid a lot to get to where you are haven't you? People are willing to do this job for next to nothing because they either believe Kit Darby, just want to walk through a terminal in a uniform in front of everyone, or both.

 

[VABB]

Perhaps I don't have a good handle on what a "new hire" bread truck driver or WalMart employee makes, but I'm fairly certain that a 2nd year FO at ComAir in the 70, for instance, makes over $40/hr.

Even at my not-exactly-industry-average company, a 3rd year Cap is making more than half of that magic $90k in a Saab. Let's keep our exaggerations in check, why don't we?

Your 2nd year FO at Comair is averaging less than $40K a year. 5 years later, that same FO is lucky to be making $50K a year. Do you think $50K is going to be worth as much then? And, if he/she are lucky enough to call themselves "Riddle-Grads", they probably have spent close to $90K (much or all of it borrowed) to go there too. Yep, $40/hr as an FO is going to show major returns on their investments.

I'm with you, let's keep our exaggerations in check. The $90K Saab captain you referenced is probably spending 361 days away from home.

 

[VABB]

Of course, if anyone can find a way for us all to make more money, I'm more than happy to listen.

Publish a magazine designed to help young people become airline pilots. Fill it up with pictures of 777's and 747's, and articles about how great it is to work at ABC airlines. Offer to sell a starter "Kit" to help them jumpstart their career.

-OR-

Open up a flying university in Florida, advertise in the above magazine, and tell everyone who will listen that the best time to be training to be a pilot is when nobody is hiring.

Should be able to make a few bucks that way.

 

[pilotboy76]

I think the only way you can answer the original post is by looking at airlinepilotpay.com, and deciding if the timing is right for you. Your commitment to this career will be tested always, but that is why we have, in my opinion, a very dedicated field of professionals who take the job seriously.
You also have to consider all variables that affect you, such as age, location, family and monetary needs.
Good Luck!

 

[SLFLYHI]

Wow, $60K as a Captain. I'll admit, $60K a year is good, but considering what one has to pay to get this far, you are operating at a loss. $60K seems like a lot now, but it won't seem like that much 10 years from now. I've seen the Continental Express pay scale (I'm assuming you're with them by the IAH FO) and you are not going to make much more than that. And, given the time value of money, you might be purchasing new shoes every couple of years.


"The respect you talk about has nothing to do with our pay - it has everything to do with the fact that we've turned into cattle cars selling seats to people who probably can't even afford the parking at the airport much less an airplane ticket."

People refer to Southwest Airlines as cattle cars, and you don't see their pilots flying for low wages. Pay has a lot to do with respect. You paid a lot to get to where you are haven't you? People are willing to do this job for next to nothing because they either believe Kit Darby, just want to walk through a terminal in a uniform in front of everyone, or both.

VABB - good points. However, as was mentioned in follow on posts, there are plenty of respectable occupations that earn little money....in addition to teachers, police officers, fire fighters, paramedics all come to mind. It seems that it's the dishonorable jobs such as politicians and lawyers who get "respect" yet rarely deserve it. And yes, I do fly for Continental Express, which I'm very happy at. My initial response to your post was because there seems to be plenty of monday morning quarterbacks in this industry who suggest courses of action that simply aren't attainable.

I agree with you that we need to raise the bar of the profession, however, I think the supply vs. demand reality of today's environment makes that all but impossible. Unfortunately there are way too many of us who have been bitten by the aviation virus and the managements of this country, including our CEO who recently referred to us as "poor silly souls", know that they have all the leverage with the employees and especially the pilots.

You know, about 4 years ago, United's pilot union stared down their management and "raised the bar" to previously unheard of levels. Delta's pilots quickly jumped in and got theirs. What good did it do? The fact of the matter is that while your points about us being quality trained professionals is accurate, we're NEVER going to make the money that the lawyers, doctors and real estate executives make. We can either accept that and live with it, or continue to throw stones in a futile attempt to shout at the rain.

Ok, I'm done now.

Steve
IAH FO

 

[flyinglow]

Steve, I have to disagree with you again, do you really put thought into what you write. Have you seen how much police and fire fighters make in medium to large sized cities. I can tell you that it is much more than we make. Most cops start at over 40K a year in metropolitan areas. As for fire fighters, just ask a cop what they think about those guys, and you'll hear the truth. They hardly work and get paid very well with excellent benefits. Also when firefighters do work they are get called heros. It can't get any better than that.

As a matter of fact, I am going to quit flying and become a fire fighter.