Oh no another PFT thread

[Caveman]

There are at least a couple of hundred guys here at CMR that had to PFT. They are all Captains and most of them make north of $80K @ year with about 15 days off a month. There are even more that have moved on to bigger and better things. Every one I met was a gentlemen, an excellent pilot, and decent folks to spend a four day with. They did what they had to do at a time when it was just about the only way to get started in this industry. I don't bear them any kind of grudge. I'm just glad that I didn't have to make the choices they did. Based on their experiences it would be hard for me to argue against doing it if it were the industry norm. Fortunately, it isn't. I recognize that if one company starts to do it again it could very well spiral out of control and become the norm again. There is certainly a case to be made that if no one ever agreed to PFT then it wouldn't gain any momentum. That is probably the real danger of the Gulfstreams of the world. I guess my take on it is to avoid it at all costs. But, if it is the norm then pony up and move on. Some things just aren't right but that's the way it is.

 

[The_Russian]

Caveman....

I agee with everything you say up until you put GIA in it. I like to say one thing: "It's not the school and it's not the instructor, it is the student who makes it happen." I would say this is 90% true, but others see it different and that is OK.

 

[Ty Webb]

There are plenty of instances where PFT works against you.

When I was flying 135 in S. FL we got a ton of resumes from GIA Flap Operators who had used up their 250 hours and were now out on the street.

Even though we were right there in Ft. Liquorstore and needed FO's, for our Metros, the Gulfstream resumes went right into the garbage. The CP even had a bulletin board he called his "Wall of Shame" and he posted some of the most ridiculous Gulfstreamer's resumes on it. When asked why, he said, "These guys made a paying job disappear, and they aren't going to be working here".

Later, at a different company, when I was flying corporate jets, not only did we pitch all GIA resumes, but when we had guys come in from the street and offer to fly SIC in our jets "to get experience" the CP used to immediately escort them to the door, saying "Sorry, but we only hire professionals here, and if you are willing to fly for free, you're not a professional". We all got a kick out of that.

And, at my last jet 135 job, I can tell you that the CP and I both both hated PFT, and never hired anyone whose resume indicated that they were at one of those carriers.

Will PFT limit your career? Maybe . . . . and maybe not, but you'll never know which interview you didn't get because of that GIA on your resume.

If you were the CP, and you have two candidates, one who paid his dues like you did, and one who paid a bunch of money to get out of paying his dues, well, which one are you going to hire?

 

[The_Russian]

I wonder how many people have hated you for being such a horrible person. I wonder if someone threw your resume out for acting like that. I'm sure people laughed at you when you came in and asked for a job as an instructor. Don't judge someone on where they have been, judge them for who they are. Some of us at GIA have done our time.

 

[Ty Webb]

Horrible person? That's a laugh. Actions speak louder than words.

Don't judge someone on where they have been, judge them for who they are.

Look, Chief, if you didn't rent out the FO seat, they would have had to hire and pay someone to do it. It might not have been you; it might have been someone who was a little further along in their career, but it's clear that you don't even grasp what you have done by payin them your money.

Some of us at GIA have done our time.


No, you BOUGHT your time . . . . and that's the point.

 

[searching]

Hey Ty,

If your at Air Tran, your company sure doesn't have a problem with Gulfstream people. I've heard they hired a BUNCH.

 

[Ty Webb]

We've got about 5 or 6, and that's out of 860 pilots. I wouldn't call that "a bunch". . . . . . and they haven't hired any in the last three years that I know of.

We probably have more German nationals than we do former Gulfstreamers.

Spend your money; take your chances, but it sounds like a fool's game to me.

 

[The_Russian]

????

What? Who cares if I BOUGHT time in a B1900. It's no different than renting a Pa-34 or a dutchess. I'm still BUYING time. I hope I get to share a cockpit with you one day, maybe you'll take our dispatch release and wadd it up. Then maybe you'll throw it in the trash and laugh at it for being printed buy an inkjet printer instead of a laserjet. Whats wrong with you man? Have you been cheated? Oh and don't worry about it, you will get to share the cockpit with GIA guys soon. AirTran just hired 10 of our Captains!!! But you are such a good pilot and well respected judge of character that you will know who came from GIA before you meet them just because of some stink that YOU think you smell.

Peace out man. I hope when you make Captain that you laugh at all your F/O's because they are on a lower rung on the ladder. In fact, I'm sure you'll make Captain because you never begged, borrowed, stole, or rented time in any plane.

 

[searching]

Ty,

Don't get the wrong idea, I am not going to Gulfstream. (even though I could care less about PFT), The reason I said this is Gulfstream sent a a couple of people to my flight school/university to recruit people new blood. One of the speakers was an ex-Gulfstream pilot, now at Air Tran. He said he had been at Air Tran for about 8 months.

On a side note, the man seemed like a great guy. PFT or not.

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: ????

Why? Did our lav-truck operators all quit?

Seriously, if you believe that, you are even stupider than I gave you credit for. I am sure that rumor was enough to get you to dig into your pocket for another check, though . . .

If anyone really wants to know where our most recent class of newhires came from:

1) ACA
1) TWA/AA
1) USN RET.
1) Mesaba
1) USAF
2) AirTran Airways (LOA or Medical)

 

[The_Russian]

There are plenty of jobs out there for people just like you, don't worry.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

Russian, with all the respect, I think you're missing the point.

What's wrong with renting out a 727, 737, 757, 767 for some FO 121 jet time then??? I mean, why not just go to Delta, United, or FedEx and tell them "let me pay you for being an FO. Oh, I'm just buying time"? At some point it has to stop, otherwise you're killing jobs that you're supposed to be paid for.

I believe that point should the 121 job. There shouldn't be a single airline out there that you should be paying for to fly as an FO for. Well, RAA, GA, TAB and others pushed that line to the bottom.

After all, some people just don't get it. They'll do anything just to wear a pilot's hat, although, they don't realize how much damage they cause...

 

[blade230]

My man the Russian,

If you are supportive of Gulfstream, fine, but do not try and convince people/pilots who are dead set against it that it is the right thing to do. People/pilots will NEVER agree on this subject. It is sorta like politics.

Let this PFT thread die, for as long as it can stay dead. probably like 3 days MAX

 

[The_Russian]

This is getting old..........

Listen,

I didn't buy a job. I bought some time and training in a BE1900. GIA has 220 pilots that are full time, only an additional 50-80 at any given time are Probationary F/O's. That brings the total to just under 300 pilots with a small percentage of F/O program guys. The airline does not just have guys buying every seat. This is an airline that deserves respect for that although it is never recognized for it. And I'm not doing "anything" to wear a pilots hat. I did my time, I'm just perfecting my resume.

 

[The_Russian]

Blade,

It's kinda hard to sit back while some guy takes shots at you.