Oh no another PFT thread

[searching]

Hey Ty,

If your at Air Tran, your company sure doesn't have a problem with Gulfstream people. I've heard they hired a BUNCH.

 

[Ty Webb]

We've got about 5 or 6, and that's out of 860 pilots. I wouldn't call that "a bunch". . . . . . and they haven't hired any in the last three years that I know of.

We probably have more German nationals than we do former Gulfstreamers.

Spend your money; take your chances, but it sounds like a fool's game to me.

 

[The_Russian]

????

What? Who cares if I BOUGHT time in a B1900. It's no different than renting a Pa-34 or a dutchess. I'm still BUYING time. I hope I get to share a cockpit with you one day, maybe you'll take our dispatch release and wadd it up. Then maybe you'll throw it in the trash and laugh at it for being printed buy an inkjet printer instead of a laserjet. Whats wrong with you man? Have you been cheated? Oh and don't worry about it, you will get to share the cockpit with GIA guys soon. AirTran just hired 10 of our Captains!!! But you are such a good pilot and well respected judge of character that you will know who came from GIA before you meet them just because of some stink that YOU think you smell.

Peace out man. I hope when you make Captain that you laugh at all your F/O's because they are on a lower rung on the ladder. In fact, I'm sure you'll make Captain because you never begged, borrowed, stole, or rented time in any plane.

 

[searching]

Ty,

Don't get the wrong idea, I am not going to Gulfstream. (even though I could care less about PFT), The reason I said this is Gulfstream sent a a couple of people to my flight school/university to recruit people new blood. One of the speakers was an ex-Gulfstream pilot, now at Air Tran. He said he had been at Air Tran for about 8 months.

On a side note, the man seemed like a great guy. PFT or not.

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: ????

Why? Did our lav-truck operators all quit?

Seriously, if you believe that, you are even stupider than I gave you credit for. I am sure that rumor was enough to get you to dig into your pocket for another check, though . . .

If anyone really wants to know where our most recent class of newhires came from:

1) ACA
1) TWA/AA
1) USN RET.
1) Mesaba
1) USAF
2) AirTran Airways (LOA or Medical)

 

[The_Russian]

There are plenty of jobs out there for people just like you, don't worry.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

Russian, with all the respect, I think you're missing the point.

What's wrong with renting out a 727, 737, 757, 767 for some FO 121 jet time then??? I mean, why not just go to Delta, United, or FedEx and tell them "let me pay you for being an FO. Oh, I'm just buying time"? At some point it has to stop, otherwise you're killing jobs that you're supposed to be paid for.

I believe that point should the 121 job. There shouldn't be a single airline out there that you should be paying for to fly as an FO for. Well, RAA, GA, TAB and others pushed that line to the bottom.

After all, some people just don't get it. They'll do anything just to wear a pilot's hat, although, they don't realize how much damage they cause...

 

[blade230]

My man the Russian,

If you are supportive of Gulfstream, fine, but do not try and convince people/pilots who are dead set against it that it is the right thing to do. People/pilots will NEVER agree on this subject. It is sorta like politics.

Let this PFT thread die, for as long as it can stay dead. probably like 3 days MAX

 

[The_Russian]

This is getting old..........

Listen,

I didn't buy a job. I bought some time and training in a BE1900. GIA has 220 pilots that are full time, only an additional 50-80 at any given time are Probationary F/O's. That brings the total to just under 300 pilots with a small percentage of F/O program guys. The airline does not just have guys buying every seat. This is an airline that deserves respect for that although it is never recognized for it. And I'm not doing "anything" to wear a pilots hat. I did my time, I'm just perfecting my resume.

 

[The_Russian]

Blade,

It's kinda hard to sit back while some guy takes shots at you.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

ok, you bought 1900 time to perfect your resume, fine. I'm sure that's for your dream airline job.

Tell me:
How would you feel if you just applied to lets say Comair and got accepted, but next day they told you, "oops, sorry, we just hired some pun%k who took your FO seat, he's just buying time from us."

 

[The_Russian]

I would look for a job somewhere else, and I wouldn't take it personally. It was obviously a business decision. I haven't taken anyones job because all of the GIA guys are backups. We are mostly only on reserve. The full time F/O's do most of the flying. We just back them up and build our time that way.

Ty did you work at BIA at FXE? You sound like it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Wake up. All airlines have reserves . . . and they hire and train pilots so they have reserves available.

But you guys, paying the company, for the privilege of sitting reserve . . . now, THAT'S some funny stuff.

I'm done wasting time in this thread . . . . Over and Out.

 

[Ace757]

Ok question.....Is Delta Connection Academy PFT? Or what about when FSI had the ASA Fast Track. Was that PFT? The differnce I see between DCA, and FSI, and Gulfstream is that your not buying time as a 121 FO. You are paying for traing so that you will do well in training at ASA and Comair. Is this the same thing as Gulfstream PFT?

 

[searching]

The Flight Safety ASA fast track program was definately PFT. It was infact pay for a job. No purchasing of flight time like the Gulfstream/Tab/Eagle Jet things, just an outright job for a ton of cash.

 

[bobbysamd]

Comair as P-F-T

Ok question.....Is Delta Connection Academy PFT?

No. Comair is not P-F-T. P-F-T is an employment issue. For something to be P-F-T, the applicant must remit payment to the employer as a condition of employment and, generally, the paid-for training must be esoteric to that company and not lead to a certificate, rating or other credential which is accepted and can be marketed anywhere. DCA, fka Comair Aviation Academy, is a flight school. One goes there initially to be trained, for FAA certificates which are accepted anywhere. Employment, if one gets it, comes later and one does not have to pay for it.

Or what about when FSI had the ASA Fast Track. Was that PFT? The differnce I see between DCA, and FSI, and Gulfstream is that your not buying time as a 121 FO. You are paying for traing so that you will do well in training at ASA and Comair. Is this the same thing as Gulfstream PFT?

ASA made conditional offers of employment to FSI grads. They had to put in their time as instructors before ASA picked them up. At Gulfstream, after one completes the P-F-T program, one flies for 250 hours as a paid FO, at $8 per hour. Since the FO is required under Part 121 and, presumably, its operating certificate, and, absent the P-F-T program, someone would ordinarily be hired into that job, Gulfstream FOs at least begin as P-F-Ters. Gulfstream people have written here that P-F-Ters can be considered for full-time after they complete their P-F-T stints. Apparently, Gulfstream does not hire street FOs.

 

[blade230]

Bobby you are incorrect about the ASA Flight Safety thing. There were two options a pilot could pay for, a flight instructor route, which almost nobody took who was enrolled in the bridge program, or the "bridge/no instructing route", where there was NO flight instructing. Call flight safety and ask.

I think you are reffering to ASA just hiring off the street Flight Safety flight instructors, but Flight Safety had a PFT/J program with ASA which put 300 hour guys at ASA. The program included SAAB Level D sim Time, and multi-engine time. Sorta like the Mesa PACE PFT/J program.

 

[searching]

Blade is correct,

Flight Safety did indeed have a PFJ/T program with ASA. It was also much like the mesa Pace PFJ/T deal.

 

[The_Russian]

Gulftream does not hire F/O's off the street, that is true. However, they do hire Captains off the street when they can't upgrade people fast enough. That mostly occured before 9/11.

I'll agree with blade and searching about the ASA PFJ. Those guys payed for a permanent hire job before walking in the door. At least that was when I was there in 2001. I heard of a deal with FSI that if you instructed for 1200 hours you had the option of getting the ASA program for free or a reduced price. That is what GIA does for their instuctors. I'm not sure, but I think that is what Bobby is talking about.

 

[bobbysamd]

FSI/ASI relationship

Bobby you are incorrect about the ASA Flight Safety thing. There were two options a pilot could pay for, a flight instructor route, which almost nobody took who was enrolled in the bridge program, or the "bridge/no instructing route", where there was NO flight instructing.

In 1992, one of my CFI students was interviewed for and was given the "conditional offer of employment" at FSI. I helped him prep for the instrument portion of the interview. He had to put in his time at FSI instructing before he could go to ASA. I believe he began in Scheduling. For sure, he was behind the desk in Dispatch, and then he started flying. He instructed for quite a while. During that time, his wife managed the bookstore.

FSI also had a deal that it would hire you and train you on its nickel for your CFI-I and MEI in return for an 800-hour instructing commitment. At that point, it sent you on to ASA.

More recently, I know that FSI had a pay-for-job tie-in with ASA. New grads who received the "conditional offer of employment" ponied up the big check and trained. One of them was pictured for a time on the FSI website, and someone here identified the guy. FSI has since changed its website.