Official: ASA not getting ANY 900s

[Muff-N-Man]

It has nothing to do with pay. SKYW makes more than us. Management has no desire to settle the contract. They want this to drag on long enough to transfer everything to SKYW.

This is about Union busting. There is not a contract we could sign that would save our jobs.

Amen! This has nothing to do with us. It's company propaganda, and always has been. Delta either decided to put the 705's in SLC, or they were never intended for ATL and just used as a ploy. Delta decides where the airplanes go, they could care less (as far as these a/c are concerned) about our political bs.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

You're being a little hypocritical aren't you? You're blaming the union which implies you have accepted managment's argument without so much as a second thought. There are two sides to this argument, at least with the union we know what is being asked for. Management's 'proposal' is hidden in half truths and blantant mis-information. Can it be absolutely confirmed that we would have even been in the running for any of these planes? Did it help Comair? Is it possible that managment is using this issue to press their argument in negotiations? Are you a GO tool bag pretending to be a pilot? It's being done every day by those over in the GO, it's common tactic in these type of negotiations. But thanks for the comments. As for the 900's, if we aren't paid more to fly them, why do we want them? For growth? Yeah, that would be nice but not for 50 or even 70 seat wages.

No, I haven't accepted the company's position, but I admit I default to the anti-union side. The union propaganda just pisses me off. It comes from my pre-airline days when I was in another career, and had to deal with union thugs on a daily basis.

Anyway, I try to hear what the union has to say, but it seems like they just put out mostly non-sense, and then they don't get anything done for us. What, exactly, are my dues going for? If the union would take some action instead of spinning their wheels for 4 years, I might would feel a little differently.

I mean no disrespect to my colleagues, who, like me, keep this airline running on a day to day basis. I think we deserve to be treated with respect, and the rest of the airline that we are propping up needs to step to the plate. I guess I'm just jaded, and pissed off.

 

[atrdriver]

If the union would take some action instead of spinning their wheels for 4 years, I might would feel a little differently.

Well, lets see. The union negotiators ALWAYS showed up on time, and prepared to negotiate. The company team often showed up late, or not at all. When they did show up they allowed the company lawyer dominate the negotiations for over 3 years. Paying this company lawyer a reported 70K per month, it was obviously in his best interest to drag the negotiations out as long as possible. Yes, they finally replaced "billable" Bill Hires, but the company continued up show up for meeting not prepared, while the union team was always prepared and ready to make a deal. The union CNC had the power to strike an agreement, while the company negotiators didn't. What action exactly do you want the union to take here? They have been ready and willing since day 1 to get a fair deal done. They want what we want, which is a deal that is fair to both us and the company. Can you say that about what the company wants?

 

[shamrock]

I just wish you weren't taking me with you.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

 

[shamrock]

I try to hear what the union has to say, but it seems like they just put out mostly non-sense, and then they don't get anything done for us.

I mean no disrespect to my colleagues,

That Union that "doesn't get anything done for (you)" is made up of your colleagues.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So? They should have gone to mainline anyway.

Atrdriver,
Why should they go to mainline? Even if you think they should go to mainline, what good is it to us if they go to Skywest? The mainline carriers and ALPA should have never allowed this free for all, bidding war to happen. However they sold this flying to protect payrates, retirement, and workrules. In the end, they lost the flying AND THE PAYRATES, RETIREMENT and WORKRULES. Collective bargaining only workes if you control the flying, and now NOBODY does. The free market is in control.

 

[sweptback]

Anyway, I try to hear what the union has to say, but it seems like they just put out mostly non-sense, and then they don't get anything done for us. What, exactly, are my dues going for? If the union would take some action instead of spinning their wheels for 4 years, I might would feel a little differently.

Ok, so what would you do differently? I'm honestly curious as to what your answer would be.

The fact that wheels have been spun is mostly to do with the RLA and our lack of legal action under it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Can we expect another "King Tutt Letter of Doom (tm)" for manditory reading?

I don't know, but I do expect another ALPA letter saying something to the effect that this either a bluff, or it was going to happen anyway. The ALPA message will go on to say that we just need to trust them and everything will be OK. Just keep those dues coming in - Duane needs a new boat!

 

[JoeMerchant]

You're being a little hypocritical aren't you? You're blaming the union which implies you have accepted managment's argument without so much as a second thought. There are two sides to this argument, at least with the union we know what is being asked for. Management's 'proposal' is hidden in half truths and blantant mis-information. Can it be absolutely confirmed that we would have even been in the running for any of these planes? Did it help Comair? Is it possible that managment is using this issue to press their argument in negotiations? Are you a GO tool bag pretending to be a pilot? It's being done every day by those over in the GO, it's common tactic in these type of negotiations. But thanks for the comments. As for the 900's, if we aren't paid more to fly them, why do we want them? For growth? Yeah, that would be nice but not for 50 or even 70 seat wages.

There's one big difference between "accepting management's argument" and accepting ALPA's argument. Management can carry thru on their argument while ALPA can only object. You see it doesn't matter if you or I or anyone else accepts management's argument or not. They have said they will transfer the flying and they are now going to carry out that threat. ALPA keeps making the same mistake they always due. ALPA is more concerned with payrates and workrules, instead of who does the flying. If ALPA can't start controlling who does the flying, they won't be able to control what that flying pays.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, lets see. The union negotiators ALWAYS showed up on time, and prepared to negotiate. The company team often showed up late, or not at all. When they did show up they allowed the company lawyer dominate the negotiations for over 3 years. Paying this company lawyer a reported 70K per month, it was obviously in his best interest to drag the negotiations out as long as possible. Yes, they finally replaced "billable" Bill Hires, but the company continued up show up for meeting not prepared, while the union team was always prepared and ready to make a deal. The union CNC had the power to strike an agreement, while the company negotiators didn't. What action exactly do you want the union to take here? They have been ready and willing since day 1 to get a fair deal done. They want what we want, which is a deal that is fair to both us and the company. Can you say that about what the company wants?

None of this is about what is "fair". The world isn't "fair". This is about pattern bargaining, and that patern has moved backwards since '98. Some want to ignore that fact.