NYC bus driver vs. ASA pilot

[A350]

I love the monday morning QB's all bitchin about hows OTHER pilots are bringing down the industry......

When are you guys going to get it? Management has found a plan that works. They offer lower wages/benefits for flying/upgrades. The lemmings that are in charge of the regional carriers go for it every time and those that stand up to management are handed their arses in the form of flying reductions, furloughs, and 7 year upgrades. And if there is a major scope clause in their way, they just go get another certificate.

Fortunately for the MESA group, their MEC got their arse handed to them the last contract negotiation and they took a contract that basically made them cheaper than most for the next several years. Therefore, they will get flying tossed their way until someone else can do it cheaper. They are looking at 2-3 year upgrades and a year of that is waiting to get 2000 hours.

Now we have regional pilots whining about how the mainline pilots are rolling over to save their own arse. Pot, meet kettle. The regional pilots took flying for lower wages and benefits to go from props to jets. Maybe an oversimplification of the truth, but from my perspective, if the regionals still all had turboprops and the mainlines had all the jets, the managements of the airlines would still be trying to find a way to make their crowbar work instead of giving themselves bonuses for screwing the people that make their living possible.

Until DW is removed from office and the pilots of this country get the RLA repealed and walk to protest as a WHOLE, we will still be talking about this in 10 years. There is no end to it as the situation stands today. Get used to it.

A350

 

[MINIME]

I think the original poster was simply pointing out a difference in attitude between one group of workers to another and one union versus the other. I don't think he was necessarily comparing dollar for dollar of what the two groups made and where it would go the farthest. It's common sense that money would go farther just about anywhere else than NYC with a few exeptions.

Those workers in NYC had the resolve to do better and they KNEW how important they were to the economy and made it work in their favor. I say GOOD FOR THEM!!! Now, if we one day realized how important we are to this economy and put a stop to the pilot mills, we might be able to do the same.

 

[flyinglow]

The reason the pay is unfair is simple, public versus private. There was reason that the airlines used to be regualted, its simple economics. It's been said before that the state of airlines is simply because of deregulation, and its true.

Let me try to explain it to you. Public transportation like subways, buses, etc., all operate at losses. They are publiclly subsidized with tax dollars. If they charged what it actually cost to operate those services including the huge amount of capital investment necessary to get them up and running, not enough people would use it to cover all the costs. Basically they make enough money to pay the daily operational costs.

The airlines cannot operate successfully for a long period of time in its current state. Eventually labor is going to demand higher pay, it may take a while, and other costs will continue to rise. The problem is that if they charge a price that is enough to cover all these costs, not enough people will purchase tickets, and then they will loose even more.

Unfortunately I do not see a good future for the airline business until its is re-regulated again. There is simply too much intial capital required to start up, then enormous overhead, and eventually economics says salaries will go up ( it may take 20 years). Good luck to all you who decide to stick it out in this crazy business.

 

[CoATP]

You don't get a meal on the bus either. But the traffic is heavier. I wonder if the bus driver b*tch about pilots on their sites?

 

[acaTerry]

You have a "perception" issue. You percieve the pilot profession to be one of "prestige" and a bus driver as one of "low class". You just can't stand that the compensation package of a "lowly" bus driver compares to that of an "Airline Captain". It's 2005 not 1975. The cost to fly has gotten closer to the price of a bus ride and with that a pilots salary has moved closer to that of a bus driver. This is what a market does. You either "adapt or die". 150K average salaries don't mix with $59 dollar fares. If you don't like it, GET THE F*CK OUT, NOW! And take the "White Male" chip off your shoulder. Rode the Q10 from Queens to JFK for over a year. Plenty of White males driving.

You, an airline captain, should know better than to post this divisive trash. Yes, is 2005. So why should a pilot make LESS than he did 30 years ago? Geez, someone needs to hit the top of your neck so your head will pop back out from your butt.

Oh, I almost forgot....the Rams stink!

 

[jetfo]

Oh my, hahaha, that was so funny! I'm so glad I read another post about ASA's terrible quality of life!!

Good, please go to NYC. Just don't let the door hit you on the way out. You are a tired act, so is everyone else here with their whining and complaining. If you don't like the aviation industry and what it is offering, what is keeping you here?

But I gotta give it to you, your constant, pointless, and most of the time senseless posting goes unread and is about as amusing as eating 3 day old elephant puke from a rusty bucket of nails.

And for the record, you'd get eaten alive in NYC and would be writing home to mommy asking her if that flight instructing position at the FBO was still available.

Out.

FU (Follow up) you SOB (sweet old boy). You obviously know nothing of what you're talking about. Esquire, I doubt it?!? I have no idea of what you're flying, but you must be one of those 500-1000 hour wonders who's is all excited about flying a shiny new jet at the expense of individuals that have spent decades in this industry.

Unfortunately, most of us don't have trust funds but do have families to support, so perhaps the lifestyle/compensation offered at the regionals, and some of the majors and fractionals don't quite make it. And to some, and perhaps more and more, we are looking at alternatives. Why is a NYC bus driver, who works in a two dimensional environment, at a braindead job more highly compensated that many of the professional pilots who work in this industry and post on this board.

But, perhaps the future in aviation belongs to the likes of you, who is willing to buy your job and prostitute yourself to fly a shiny jet, while you lower the bar across the industry.

A legitimate question I think. So, berate someone else!

 

[jetfo]

You have a "perception" issue. You percieve the pilot profession to be one of "prestige" and a bus driver as one of "low class". You just can't stand that the compensation package of a "lowly" bus driver compares to that of an "Airline Captain". It's 2005 not 1975. The cost to fly has gotten closer to the price of a bus ride and with that a pilots salary has moved closer to that of a bus driver. This is what a market does. You either "adapt or die". 150K average salaries don't mix with $59 dollar fares. If you don't like it, GET THE F*CK OUT, NOW! And take the "White Male" chip off your shoulder. Rode the Q10 from Queens to JFK for over a year. Plenty of White males driving.

I doubt it costs $59 one way into Manhattan!?! You're part of the problem! You think you're just a bus driver and guess what, you'll be compensated like one. Get it?!?

 

[Reebo]

You, an airline captain, should know better than to post this divisive trash. Yes, is 2005. So why should a pilot make LESS than he did 30 years ago? Geez, someone needs to hit the top of your neck so your head will pop back out from your butt.

Oh, I almost forgot....the Rams stink!

Yes, the Rams SUCK! My point was that in 1975 pilot salaries of MAJOR airlines were something to be proud of. After de-regulation airlines became more concerned with "market share" than revenue. United couldn't lose market share to a bankrupt Continental, so they matched fares with them even though they knew they were going to lose money. AA grew agressively and created a "B" scale pilot wage to help offset the lower fares that they were offering. Southwest has always charged a fare that they could make money on. They price their product to meet their costs. Most of the "legacy" carriers tried to offset the lower fares by charging their best customers, i.e. the buisness traveler, very high fares. In truth the price of a ticket should have been somewhere in between a "super saavor" and a one way walk up ticket. Now with the internet, the business travler must be "price sensitive" when they travel, ending the gravy train for "legacy" carriers. What does this all mean? That until airlines can price their product to cover their costs, salaries will continue to fall. The Bus drivers of NYC, as someone mentioned, are having their salaries subsidised by tax revenues, and they know that. We on the other hand are at the mercy of airline managements and our unions. This is the state of the industry in 2006.

 

[Reebo]

I doubt it costs $59 one way into Manhattan!?! You're part of the problem! You think you're just a bus driver and guess what, you'll be compensated like one. Get it?!?

Not quite, the $59 I was refering to was the price of a ticket, not the cost of a bus ride to Manhattan. I don't think I'm a bus driver, but I don't look down on those that drive a bus.