NY Times Article on NetJets

[HazMat]

Once again I know it is hard to believe because he is the guy who switched. Most of us at Avantair know who Avantairowner is and he is in fact a guy who left Netjets for Avantair. We get about 20 of those a month. He doesn't hide it and alot of us have spoken to him. He has had alot of business success. We all know some of the Companies he has started.

 

[Grizz]

Can you get a bannana (note the spelling of "bannana" retard)

You really make this entirely too easy. You better quit while you're behind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/banana

If this is indicative of the witty repartee you're capable of, I can understand why you'd make some half-assed stab at trying to explain a complex business model. (And fail miserably at doing so)

Better stick with trying to explain how Suzy's lemonade stand works Einstein. You might be able to figure that out.

 

[Hawkered]

Griz,

Knock it off. You're better than that!

NJA Owner,

I'd be proud to fly you and listen to your insight. Personally I like Mr Sokol. I think that he has brought reality to the operation and a view to long term sustainability and a chance to expand once the economy improves.

Don't give up on what "once was". This is the worst and least predictable economy since 1929. Guys like Sokol assure us of both success and appreciation in the long run. When we come out of this, we will have the capital for expansion into places like Canada, South America, China and South East Asia.

Mr Santulli was a visionary, but his plans got derailed by an economy that melted and a credit market that froze. I think his management style was always based upon hiring to meet a future expansion plan. Why not; it had worked up to this point?

Obviously for these times, Mr Sokol is an excellent choice and I have no problem believing that he is the heir apparent to the Berkshire helm.

Netjets is a great job. I feel sorry for the 495ers, but hopefully we will have sustainable expansion sooner than predicted.

 

[Grizz]

Griz,

Knock it off. You're better than that!

Not really. My exceptionally poor impulse control is one of the reasons I stopped bantering with the nameless, faceless and clueless over here. It made my life more sane not to tilt at these particular windmills.

That being said, I'm done here. See you over on our board.

 

[glasspilot]

To all: I screwed up banana...sorry.

To Grizz. My points were spot on. NJA, along with most fractionals, is a pyrimade scheme. It's just like Amway. You have to grow to survive. If you don't you die. Exhibit A is the past year.

1. You don't charge enough to cover the cost of the service.
2. You expect aircraft appreciation to cover the loss.
3. Everybody expects perks. Pilots, Owners, Management, hell...rampers when they see a "QS' plane!

You shot my bannana all to hell but the points of my argument stand strong. Your strongest argument thus far as been to say I am a monkey. Nice work.

 

[NJAowner]

Grizz -- great to see your posts.

Glass and others -- the perks are nice but not the reason I fly NJA. It is like those little "somethings" a chef at a restaurant may send out between courses. Not the reason we went there, but delicious and appreciated.

In my opinion, most owners who switch from NJA to Avantair probably should not have been at NJA in the first place. For me and many other owners, Avantair's aircraft (leaving safety and other issues aside) just can't handle our missions cost and time efficiently. If an owner just needs some short hops, Avantair may be their solution. Just to be honest, I think Avantair is a very good business model but consider it a much different product/service than NJA. That is why I do own many shares of stock in Avantair. In full disclosure, I also have an interest in 2 HIG funds which own FLOPs. But I would not fly nor put my family on either of their planes. But I also own many shares of HP but buy Dell and Apple computer.

NJ is not a pyramid scheme. If one truly understands the finances at Avantair they would not attack the finance of NJA. In my opinion, Avantair is succeeding in this market because many owners have gotten addicted to private flying. It is one of the nastiest addictions known to man and extremely tough to kick. Therefore, a lower priced product which still gives you the "high" and accomplishes its missions will do very, very well in the short run (and why I have bought shares). And in my opinion, Avantair is probably still safer than many, many other operators. This is not a determination of "unsafe", but "more safe". I do think that Avantair and FLOPs are "safe", but if I can move further down the curve, I will. I am sure I will get flamed for this but as I said "in my opinion" and I have engaged experts whom I trust to look at issues on my behalf before committing, and when renewing and purchasing additional NJ shares. It is like the old school days, a 96 is a great grade, not to be diminished by anyone and the student should be quite proud. But a 99 is still better.


Please do not take this the wrong way. My opinions are not meant to be negative toward others, but just the priorities and decisions I make on a daily basis. While other parents I know allow their kids to do things considered "safe", I drawn the line elsewhere.

Fly safe.

 

[dime line]

"But I would not fly nor put my family on either on of their planes"

NJA Owner,
Why not?

 

[avantairowner]

netjetowner

My company recently added additional shares from Avantair. Our insurance underwriter required a safety audit of their operation since almost all of our flying will be handled by them. The audit came back A+. I see first hand their attention to detail and completely disagree with your opinion. Not just my opinion but the third party auditor we hired say they are a 99. By the way i almost exclusively travel over 1000 miles on each flight. Not sure what you mean by short haul. These are two great companies you can't go wrong. I switched for two main reasons cost and the lower carbon emissions of the Piaggio. I am very happy with my decision we now own almost half an airplane. I think the eco side will become a big thing in the future.

 

[NJAowner]

Avantair owner -- like I have said many times before, I am very glad that you are happy with Avantair and it suits your needs. While the P180 may suit a few of our missions, it is not suitable or cost effective for the majority of our flying needs. That is why there is room inthe market for competitors -- there is no single right or wrong.

As far as our review, we had an extensive review conducted several years back and we were not satified with the results. This is not a bright line test for all -- but just our determination based upon our expectations. I hear things have changed since the operations moved south.

Financially, I do have a concern with the ability to continue to fund all that is required on a daily basis when the current accounts payable and expenses exceed the current cash, receiables and anticipated income.

Fly safe.

 

[jetmaster727]

netjetowner

My company recently added additional shares from Avantair. Our insurance underwriter required a safety audit of their operation since almost all of our flying will be handled by them. The audit came back A+. I see first hand their attention to detail and completely disagree with your opinion. Not just my opinion but the third party auditor we hired say they are a 99. By the way i almost exclusively travel over 1000 miles on each flight. Not sure what you mean by short haul. These are two great companies you can't go wrong. I switched for two main reasons cost and the lower carbon emissions of the Piaggio. I am very happy with my decision we now own almost half an airplane. I think the eco side will become a big thing in the future.

One of my pax recently told me this: took avantair into short wet strip because we wouldn't in the jet. Safety! They landed, slid sideways, and almost crashed off the end. Scared the crap out of all onboard who now refuse to fly them.

 

[clickclickboom]

Owners, Pilots, Management:

I think that a safety discussion is truly a moot point. Lets face it Shares, NJA, Flops, Avantair they all use the same service providers for training. They all use the same maintenance providers and have engine contracts from the same companies.

They all have FAA approved training programs that are nearly identical.

They all have similar aircraft that are being ridden hard and put away wet daily. It all comes down to customer service

Customer Service is not about the service when things are fine it is about how you handle the problems.

I flew fractional for nearly 8 years and I would scratch my head trying to figure out how this business model could ever been sustainable based on the waste of money and excess that I saw on a daily basis.

5 years ago i decided to get out to get on a seniority list. It has turned out to be a good decision ( for now )

 

[HazMat]

Jetmaster

what a complete joke. By the way Totally untrue. Stuff like this is just downright dumb that's all I will say.

 

[jetmaster727]

Jetmaster

what a complete joke. By the way Totally untrue. Stuff like this is just downright dumb that's all I will say.

well I heard it from the guy on the airplane, so you're saying he's lying or what?

 

[wacoflyr]

One of my pax recently told me this: took avantair into short wet strip because we wouldn't in the jet. Safety! They landed, slid sideways, and almost crashed off the end. Scared the crap out of all onboard who now refuse to fly them.

This would have gotten out, and I haven't heard about it. I don't believe it. If it is true, then I guess I have no problem with you posting it. But if as I believe this is false, then that makes you a bit of a dirtbag, doesn't it?

 

[ArtVandalay]

It blows my mind that you guys actually believe that this "netjetowner" and "avantairowner" are really owners. LMAO.