NWALPA's response to it's members.....

[General Lee]

Wait, wait, wait, so let me get this straight. If it were totally up to the NWA guys, they would not have done this to us? They wouldn't have? Why didn't they take our first offer? If they just wanted to be our brothers, why didn't they say "ah heck, we are getting a great deal, and you fine Southern folk seem cool enough, and we are keeping our pensions, getting a large raise, getting the chance to fly more widebodies, getting the chance to fly closer to where we live, getting the chance to make some extra change in a bonus, and the chance to get rid of Steenland. Let's do it and be fair with the larger airline that doesn't have our old airplanes that are about to go to the boneyard....." Why didn't they say that? Answer: An Ex Republic guy with an agenda wanted to MAKE SURE he got what he deserved and something that made up for what the redbook guys did to him and his group. Sad but true. But regardless, I can't wait to eat barbeque with these Northern Hosers someday. I can teach them about NASCAR, and they can try to explain ice fishing to me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Don't have a dog in this fight, but you brought up a very important point, Occam.

If the DAL pilot true intent was/is to be 'fair' then the deal that they negotiated will have a 'requirement' that; 'upon achieving a SLI (on List), the NWA pilot will receive immediate parity with the DAL pilots.'

If it does Not contain such language, then the clear intent was for the DAL pilots to secure a comfrontable seat on the Bus, with the NWA pilot left 'under the bus' What else would it look like??

REALITY CHECK; now the NWA pilots have to negotiate with a 'gun to their head' as the DAL pilots got what they want; NWA pilots got NOTHING.....'DAL pilots to the NWA pilots'----Give in to what 'we' want, or the bus runs over you, then backs over you.

Just the way it looks from an Outside observer. Am I close??

For what its worth.

DA

P.S. Again, now waiting for 'CAL/UAL' that should also be interesting??

Here's my take as a Double-breasted A-hole!!

Nobody I have met in a cockpit wants this thing. Nobody is busting out champagne except for management. We still have to vote on this deal.

That being said, the merger could have happened WITHOUT our support. We would wake up one morning and find an announcement. In order for our blessing, the management sweetened our deal a little bit. We negotiated our OWN deal PRIOR to the merger. Not the other way around. It is the intent of this (DAL) MEC to get the groups together and negotiate as 12000+ pilots for a better deal for all and YES, NWA would come and match up to our deal. This was the carrot to NWA pilots by management to get them back to the table.

We re-opened section 6 to get a few things back from our post-BK POS contract. This isn't the TA that will preside when we get everybody together, just in the interim until a new deal gets written.

Nobody has released to us what the NWA MEC wanted nor has anyone seen the DAL MEC's demands. Obviously they are doing a good job representing each group's interest, but as a voter now, I want to see exactly what each group "WANTED" and let me be the judge on who was the most irrational and demanding. I'm not taking the rhetoric coming from both sides as gospel.

Again, this merger will not solve high oil prices, and the only people getting rich are the management and stockholders. Keep in mind, THIS DEAL WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY.....so we need to get together and work on the SLI which is fair and then a contract which makes up for all that BOTH groups have given up.

PS.
Can't see how all the -9's and 47's getting parked will NOT result in furloughs......my reps got some 'splaining to do.

 

[Fly4hire]

Again, this merger will not solve high oil prices, and the only people getting rich are the management and stockholders. Keep in mind, THIS DEAL WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY.....so we need to get together and work on the SLI which is fair and then a contract which makes up for all that BOTH groups have given up.

PS.
Can't see how all the -9's and 47's getting parked will NOT result in furloughs......my reps got some 'splaining to do.

Think about in these terms -

You see a car with a bunch of thugs pull up to your house and head for the front door with ill intent.

You can grab your gun, call your neighbor and he grabs his, and very possibly between the two of you send them packing to lick their wounds or worse, and make the neighborhood a safer place.

Instead as they head for the front door, you say "my neighbor has more stuff in his house and I know the floor plan, and will you give me a cut if I show you the way?"

 

[PuffDriver]

Hmmmm.

Does your contract contain a requirement to provide parity for NWA pilots when a SLI is reached?

Your answer is there, my brother.

You are getting what you asked for, arbitration. You will eventually get it, so why the sour grapes. Are you honestly saying that you don't think the company will give you the same as us when we get an SLI?

Of course, this is provided that we even ratify LOA 19, of which I have not even seen the details yet. I will say that I do not like the DC of 10% right off the bat..

Again, isn't this what you wanted. Now you get your attrition, perhaps a 787 or 2 on the property prior to us initiating ALPA merger policy. The Delta pilots secured some much needed raises and equity.

 

[Golden Falcon]

h goody...wonder if this cat-fight is going to get as good as the USAirways one...

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Not mine but I'm gonna paraphrase here...

Every night before I go to bed...I recite this prayer...

Dear God, please take care and keep watch over my wife, kids and family. Please try to take care of those who are in harms way. Lord, hopefully with your guidance, mankind can find a way to peace.

And God, please don't ever, never, ever let Southwest Airlines enter into a merger...with anybody...at any time. Just let SWA pick up the assets...and keep the fuel hedges going....Amen

 

[~~~^~~~]

Amen!

 

[PuffDriver]

What are the chances of new Delta aircraft going to NWA instead of Delta because NWA pays less? This might end up like the regional whipsaw on a much bigger scale. DALPA took for itself short term without considering the consequences.

About 0.

Just my take though.

 

[ThisistheDream]

Looks like this is going to arbitration!!! there is no way both groups will be happy, so it will be the arbitrator that will make the final decision

 

[tomgoodman]

Negotiations will continue

I was going to be seriously impressed if these two groups could forge a list and a joint contract before the merger was announced ....

The announcement does not close the door to a pre-merger agreement, and may actually facilitate one, since more cards are now on the table. There is more than enough time to forge one list and one contract before the merger becomes a fact. The danger is that we tend to become prisoners of our past statements, and treat our hardliners better than we treat our compromisers.

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

 

[~~~^~~~]

Excellent, Excellent point Tom

...waiting for either MEC to pick up the phone and start a "do over."

 

[N2264J]

Re: NWALPA's response to it's members...

Unfortunately, the Delta pilot leadership rejected arbitration, whether expedited or not, as a means to resolve the seniority list dispute. From that point, Delta management, the Delta pilot leadership and Northwest management chose a different path. NWA management proposed a traditional merger to Delta management. Then Delta management entered into bilateral negotiations with the representatives of the Delta MEC. The representatives of the Northwest pilots were excluded from the negotiations. Inexplicably, the Delta pilot leadership reversed its position...

Oh my!

So Razor, tell us what that's like when your MEC is excluded from negotiations that affect your interests.

How do you feel?

 

[~~~^~~~]

N2264J:

The NWA MEC was not excluded from negotiations. They just reached a "disagreement," instead of an agreement.

Also, the NWA MEC's letter is not completely accurate. Delta only refused to enter expedited arbitration based on their last table position. They did not (and maybe can not) refuse normal arbitration.

The difference is that the expedited arbitration started at DAL's final position and NWA's initial position, which heavily slants the table in favor of the NWA side if the arbitrator splits the difference.

This is just basic fairness. The Delta side could not go forward with such a concessionary position as an opener.

I'm hoping the MEC's get on the phone with each other.

 

[Morning Wood]

This might make a good news headline on the heels of all the maintenance problems (which are nothing but posturing by the FAA) and the endless stories about delays and people being left on airplanes for hours. I frankly don't think the DOJ is going to approve this unless a bunch of assests get sold off.

The other reality is that the two boards of directors and the government will decide the outcome, not any of the employee groups.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Oh my!

So Razor, tell us what that's like when your MEC is excluded from negotiations that affect your interests.

How do you feel?

Funny you should mention that! The only thing both sides agreed to was that you were a whiney loser. (Yes, by name)

 

[PuffDriver]

This might make a good news headline on the heels of all the maintenance problems (which are nothing but posturing by the FAA) and the endless stories about delays and people being left on airplanes for hours. I frankly don't think the DOJ is going to approve this unless a bunch of assests get sold off.

The other reality is that the two boards of directors and the government will decide the outcome, not any of the employee groups.

If I were to venture a guess, I would guess that it has already been given the go ahead from the DOJ. I mean, the announcement, the website, and the Delta Chair's letter all came out within 5 minutes of each other. That was no accident. The grunt work has been done. This deal has been 1 1/2 years in the making

 

[PuffDriver]

Funny you should mention that! The only thing both sides agreed to was that you were a whiney loser. (Yes, by name)

Agreed. I raise you that 100 seaters with anything but a NWA or Delta a$$ in them is a no vote. Still haven't seen the language.

 

[PCL_128]

Excellent, Excellent point Tom

...waiting for either MEC to pick up the phone and start a "do over."

Very hard to do now that DALPA has basically given the finger to the NWA MEC. This was just really bad politics on Lee's part. He should know better. NWA pilots will still be pissed off about this 30 years from now.

 

[N2264J]

Re: NWALPA's response to it's members...

The NWA MEC was not excluded from negotiations. They just reached a "disagreement," instead of an agreement.

Also, the NWA MEC's letter is not completely accurate.

So the NWA MEC who routinely excluded Mesaba, Compass and Pinnacle pilots from negotiations that affected their interests is not being totally upfront when crying foul about the NWA MEC being excluded? Gee, imagine that.

I'm sorry, this is like watching a snake eat a rat. It's ruplusive to witness but it's so fascinating, you can't turn your eyes away.

The good news is: ALPA once again has a golden opportunity to fix all it's scope problems in that management is somewhat receptive to close this deal.

The bad news: ALPA doesn't have a friggen clue.

 

[N2264J]

Re: NWALPA's response to it's members...

Funny you should mention that! The only thing both sides agreed to was that you were a whiney loser. (Yes, by name)

Something in your eye?

Here's a tissue.