NWA Wants....WHAT?

[PCL_128]

IB6 UB9, I understand that you're frustrated with the situation, but what do you expect the NWA JS Chairman to do? The NWA CBA specifically states that the jumpseat is at the Captain's discretion. The only exception is the previously mentioned FAA inspector. The Chairman can do nothing more than call the Captain in question and ask him to not be such a jerk in the future. He can't force him to allow JB pilots, nor should he. The jumpseat is one of the few areas where Captain's authority is still recognized.

 

[NuGuy]

I think Nu Guy is as appalled as 99.9% of our guys are/will be when they hear this.Deli

True...I've been hoop jumping trying to nail this down...it seems that there are a few guys out there making like difficult for themselves. 10% rule, I guess.

It's no means isolated to NWA (http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21094) , but still not cool.

Nu

 

[Spooky 1]

NWA scab pilots

Do you understand how long it would take to train "scab pilots"?


Ask UAL, CAL and EAL...........not very long in the scheme of things. The rewards are great to management and very down sided to the pilots, especially with so many pilots out of work.

 

[Ualexpress]

Do you understand how long it would take to train "scab pilots"?


Ask UAL, CAL and EAL...........not very long in the scheme of things. The rewards are great to management and very down sided to the pilots, especially with so many pilots out of work.

Um ..... UAL attempts failed, EAL is out of business because they couldn't train enough guys (although there is more to it than that) and many of the scabs at CAL were already with CAL so training wasn't necessary.

 

[Lear70]

Ask UAL, CAL and EAL...........not very long in the scheme of things. The rewards are great to management and very down sided to the pilots, especially with so many pilots out of work.

Put down the crack pipe and step away... Before you hurt "your fragile little mind".

2 months, minimum to train a new pilot. Max pilots through the program at any time is probably 40-50.

How many thousands of pilots to train?

Get real... the company would grind to a halt and Chapt. 7 would be the next thing knocking on their door.

 

[castle bravo]

Hey IB6

" nobody should be doing this. I am sure that the Capt's involved are "head up their a$$" types"




My bet is that most of the offenders are MEM, and especially MSP crews. Since many of the DTW people are commuters themselves, it defies logic as to why they would engage in this embarrassing activity.

 

[AA717driver]

IB6 UB9, I understand that you're frustrated with the situation, but what do you expect the NWA JS Chairman to do? The NWA CBA specifically states that the jumpseat is at the Captain's discretion. The only exception is the previously mentioned FAA inspector. The Chairman can do nothing more than call the Captain in question and ask him to not be such a jerk in the future. He can't force him to allow JB pilots, nor should he. The jumpseat is one of the few areas where Captain's authority is still recognized.

What he should do is turn it over to the Pro Standards people. NO ONE needs a "range war" over jumpseats.

On the SCAB issue--There is a supply of trained DC9-typed and 757-typed pilots out of work between the TWA people who are laid off and TMA, Ryan...etc. Not saying that the TWA people would SCAB but ALPA created an entire force of potential strikebreakers by turning their backs on the TWA people.

You get what you pay for.TC

 

[Spooky 1]

Put down the crack pipe and step away... Before you hurt "your fragile little mind".

2 months, minimum to train a new pilot. Max pilots through the program at any time is probably 40-50.

How many thousands of pilots to train?

Get real... the company would grind to a halt and Chapt. 7 would be the next thing knocking on their door.

I'll pass on the personal insults. It can be done. It has been done, and probably will be done again. You seem to think that you are not replaceable which is the first step in a very slippery slide to the bottom. The whole operation might come to a grinding halt when it's over, but the results are the same. With ALPA in it's current state of suspeneded animation, anything is possible.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey AA717 driver and Spooky 1,
There are probably a handful of guys out there that have types in the planes, but they would have to go through the FAA approved NWA designed course even if they were typed in the plane. This training could maybe put 40-50 guys through at a time and would take 2 months with the training on a 24 hour basis. Then there is the in flight period being conducted by who? If you are trying to imply that at this time, NW pilots could be replaced you are wrong. What could be done much easier is to promise the senior guys higher pay / incentives (retirements seem to have settled themselves) to sell out the junior guys, reduce the "mainline guys" to a conquerable number, THEN the mainline pilots could be replaced. My take is mgmnt is trying to get mainline down to a defeatable number. I (.....gulp....) am trusting ALPA when they are saying "SCOPE IS THE FOCUS". I think they see the divide and conquer scheme and it is not in ALPA's best interest to lose so many guys.

 

[IB6 UB9]

...and it is not in ALPA's best interest to lose so many guys.

For the very simple reason that the money coming in to ALPA will decrease. No other reason.

 

[Deli Guy]

IB6 Quote:
For the very simple reason that the money coming in to ALPA will decrease. No other reason.

Yeah IB6,
You nailed that. That is the reason I (....gulp...) trust Alpa on this one. I am definately getting jaded in my old age.

 

[Deli Guy]

Castle Bravo Quote:
My bet is that most of the offenders are MEM, and especially MSP crews. Since many of the DTW people are commuters themselves, it defies logic as to why they would engage in this embarrassing activity.

100% Agree. I really like those guys when I meet them one on one but their "groupthink" is whacked. (I guess you can tell I'm DTW based)

 

[Spooky 1]

Hey AA717 driver and Spooky 1,
There are probably a handful of guys out there that have types in the planes, but they would have to go through the FAA approved NWA designed course even if they were typed in the plane. This training could maybe put 40-50 guys through at a time and would take 2 months with the training on a 24 hour basis. Then there is the in flight period being conducted by who? If you are trying to imply that at this time, NW pilots could be replaced you are wrong. What could be done much easier is to promise the senior guys higher pay / incentives (retirements seem to have settled themselves) to sell out the junior guys, reduce the "mainline guys" to a conquerable number, THEN the mainline pilots could be replaced. My take is mgmnt is trying to get mainline down to a defeatable number. I (.....gulp....) am trusting ALPA when they are saying "SCOPE IS THE FOCUS". I think they see the divide and conquer scheme and it is not in ALPA's best interest to lose so many guys.

Deli Guy, how soon we forget. CAL got 1900+ guys to cross over or join their ranks, EAL got over 2200+ pilots to do the same within 6 months, and UAL got similar results within six months. Not suggesting this is likely to happen agai, but don't think it is some how impossible in todays climate. None of these groups were ablse to sustain a profitable operation but they played further havoc with a fairly healthy airline industry as compared to todays airline hulks. I have a pretty good understanding of this debacle as was around in those days and even this very day I am flying with a former CAL Capt. that did not go back. To think this can not happen again is simply fooling yourselves. All you have to do is look at some of the folks who post on this site and you will see what I mean.

 

[Lear70]

Deli Guy, how soon we forget. CAL got 1900+ guys to cross over or join their ranks, EAL got over 2200+ pilots to do the same within 6 months, and UAL got similar results within six months. Not suggesting this is likely to happen agai, but don't think it is some how impossible in todays climate. None of these groups were ablse to sustain a profitable operation but they played further havoc with a fairly healthy airline industry as compared to todays airline hulks. I have a pretty good understanding of this debacle as was around in those days and even this very day I am flying with a former CAL Capt. that did not go back. To think this can not happen again is simply fooling yourselves. All you have to do is look at some of the folks who post on this site and you will see what I mean.

Ah yes, how soon we DO forget... Read the bold print above. Any airline that would try that would QUICKLY find themselves in Chapt 7... Too many people to replace in that short a time-span, MOST of the TWA guys are probably nowhere NEAR current and would have to go back through FULL initial (as Deli Guy said, 2 months each PLUS who the h*ll is going to do their OE and on WHAT FLIGHTS?), and the airline is going to be shut down for HOW LONG until they can get at least 800-1000 pilots to do any real schedules?

I believe airline management has learned from those debacles also and wouldn't put themselves in the position to lose their entire airline - I'm betting they'll make it JUST livable enough that NWA ALPA won't have the guts to strike over it and this will all be moot anyway.

BTW, I should have put a after my first sentence about the crack pipe, it's a quote from Southpark (yeah, I'm a mid-30's married guy who watches Southpark - funny sh*t right there), it wasn't meant to be demeaning, just an expression of "I can't believe he really thinks that". That's part of what Flightinfo is for though, if we didn't have dissenting views we wouldn't have anything to debate.

 

[Spooky 1]

I don't recall UAL either being in Chapt. 11 or going to Chapt. 7. Don't dismiss this threat as impossible. Desperate airlines will take desperate measures to survive. It might not make any sense, but then again have you seen a lot of intellegent thinking at the majors in the last couple of years. I saw guys at Western Airlines who were flying Capt., that in turn quit Western to take jobs at UAL. Stupid yes, unthinkable, no.