NWA Wants....WHAT?

[ackattacker]

Good point, I never thought of that. In meetings they have specifically mentioned how even if NWA had the same pay scale as JetBlue, our pilots would cost more because JetBlue pilots have only been around 5-6 years.

Sure, that's why JetBlue is so efficient (for now). If I was to start an airline, and wanted to operate it cheap as possible, I would seperate it into as many different companies as possible. I'd have one company to operate RJs, one company to operate 737's, one company to operate 757's, on and on. Then if someone wanted to upgrade from the 737 to the 757 they'd have to start at the bottom of the list again. And then when the 787 came out I'd just liquidate the company operating the 767 and start a new company. This way, no one would ever make it past 5 years seniority and they'd always be chasing a carrot that's never delivered. The future. My prediction for 5 years from now: The majors all break scope and start alter-ego's for 100 seat flying. They also start alter-ego's for low-fare flying (wait that already happened). All that's left for the true mainline is international. I predict Northwest's low-cost alter ego will be called Northwesterly. Jetblue spins of the E190's into a seperate company (JetBluey). Two years later they declare bankruptcy, default on their aircraft leases, and management takes huge bonuses and retires to Switzerland. Then another spate of low cost carriers comes in to fill the void... I predict Peoples Express 2.

 

[FN FAL]

Oh I agree about Newco, I don't believe the bankruptcy judge will LET mgmt even BEGIN to start up a new company - that kind of capital expenditure just isn't justified when mainline is right there and so are two regional affiliates. No way, no how.

I thought the Newco thing was a way for management to appease labor, because labor didn't want 70 seaters in house. Seems to me that the news from last year was that management WANTED NWA mainline pilots to fly the 70 seaters in house. I'm not picking a fight with you, that's just what I seem to remember from the press releases last year.

 

[Lear70]

It was and it wasn't. NWA pilots (rightfully) keep holding to the claim that they gave up OTHER items to KEEP scope years ago, and that the flying is THEIRS.

Management then came up with NewCo and said, "We're starting this new company to fly the 70 and 90 seaters and we're going to furlough more pilots but they can flow back to NewCo, so your pilots would still fly them. Is THAT OK?"

Needless to say, the NWA MEC didn't think that was such a hot idea either, and neither do I; unfortunately, we don't get much say in it.

 

[FN FAL]

It was and it wasn't. NWA pilots (rightfully) keep holding to the claim that they gave up OTHER items to KEEP scope years ago, and that the flying is THEIRS.

Management then came up with NewCo and said, "We're starting this new company to fly the 70 and 90 seaters and we're going to furlough more pilots but they can flow back to NewCo, so your pilots would still fly them. Is THAT OK?"

Needless to say, the NWA MEC didn't think that was such a hot idea either, and neither do I; unfortunately, we don't get much say in it.

Ouch. A buddy of mine's dad retired from NWA a few years ago (CA 747/Airbus), I'm sure he's not missing a thing. His wife is still a senior flight attendant there, so I wonder how long she'll hang in there.

I figured for sure that the industry would have turned a corner for the better by now.

 

[Av8rPHX]

Maybe I'm just reading too much into this... but the only airline in the MSP area that would have the need to hire 240 people would be NW. Maybe they are looking to outsource rampers already?

Company: Manpower Location: US-MN-Minneapolis Base Pay: N/A Other Pay: DOE Employee Type: Contractor Industry: Airline - Aviation Manages Others: No Job Type: Skilled Labor - Trades Req'd Education: None Req'd Experience: At Least 1 Year Req'd Travel: None Relocation DESCRIPTION Local airline has 240 openings for Equipment Service Employees. Theses direct hire opportunities require:

Ability to work any shift

HS Diploma/GED

Must pass drug/background check

Must pass a physical examination, vision exam, hearing exam

Ability to lift up to 75 pounds

Good English skills (reading & writing)

Valid driver's license and good driving record

 

[TinGoose1]

Wow, that's more qualifications than Pinnacle requires for flight crews.

 

[mynameisjim]

Maybe I'm just reading too much into this... but the only airline in the MSP area that would have the need to hire 240 people would be NW. Maybe they are looking to outsource rampers already?

Company: Manpower Location: US-MN-Minneapolis Base Pay: N/A Other Pay: DOE Employee Type: Contractor Industry: Airline - Aviation Manages Others: No Job Type: Skilled Labor - Trades Req'd Education: None Req'd Experience: At Least 1 Year Req'd Travel: None Relocation DESCRIPTION Local airline has 240 openings for Equipment Service Employees. Theses direct hire opportunities require:

Ability to work any shift

HS Diploma/GED

Must pass drug/background check

Must pass a physical examination, vision exam, hearing exam

Ability to lift up to 75 pounds

Good English skills (reading & writing)

Valid driver's license and good driving record

Your conspiracy theory juices are in overdrive. That is a posted position.
http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/career/jobs/GO20051741x2453642.shtml

Career Opportunities

Job Title:Equipment Service EmployeesPosting Number: GO20051741Close Date:October 28, 2005

 

[Green]

The fact that the new Airways has managed to secure E-190 flying for mainline should help the NWA Alpa negotiating position...Right?

 

[General Lee]

The fact that the new Airways has managed to secure E-190 flying for mainline should help the NWA Alpa negotiating position...Right?

It should, and they secured a better rate than JB. (I think $98 an hour for a 12 year captain on the E190) (I know, over 70 hours in doubles or goes up by one half at JB....) That is important in our negotiations too at DL. We were told that we would get some sort of new 100 seater eventually too... We'll see about that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IB6 UB9]

Just curious, do you consider the fact that it will be probably 7-8 yrs (maybe 10-12) before we have any 12 yr Captains on the airplane, which probably is not the case at the aforementioned companies?

 

[General Lee]

Just curious, do you consider the fact that it will be probably 7-8 yrs (maybe 10-12) before we have any 12 yr Captains on the airplane, which probably is not the case at the aforementioned companies?

10-12 years until you hit the top of the 100 seat scale? Gawd, I hope you increase the rates before then. I would ask your union, um, scratch that. I would beg the Daves, um, no, that won't work. I would bring it up in your 5 year interviews.....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[zonker]

10-12 years until you hit the top of the 100 seat scale? Gawd, I hope you increase the rates before then. I would ask your union, um, scratch that. I would beg the Daves, um, no, that won't work. I would bring it up in your 5 year interviews.....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

........


why bother.

 

[Morning Wood]

IB6
Good post and good questions. If ALPA was truely interested in stopping
the "race to the bottom", or "lowering the bar" or whatever the catch
phrase is this week, then why do they allow flow back or Jets for Jobs
type agreements? As soon as the shoe is on the other foot, they
are the first group to negotiate lower pay rates.

Why are so many furloughed ALPA pilots looking for jobs at JetBlue, AirTran,
or the regionals they flew for before getting hired at a major?

I guess if it is for your own self preservation, it is okay to fly an RJ until
you get recalled when the economy improves, but anyone else that
dares work there is "lowering the bar".

 

[mynameisjim]

The fact that the new Airways has managed to secure E-190 flying for mainline should help the NWA Alpa negotiating position...Right?

You mean the creation of MidAtlantic right? Where US Airways created a certificate to have furloughed mainline pilots fly 90 seat jets?

Did you also know that Republic/Chautauqua bought those jets, so now those jets (and pilots) are at the regional?

 

[NuGuy]

You mean the creation of MidAtlantic right? Where US Airways created a certificate to have furloughed mainline pilots fly 90 seat jets?

Did you also know that Republic/Chautauqua bought those jets, so now those jets (and pilots) are at the regional?

Jimmyboy,

Nope. The "new" USAirways pilot's have secured 90-100 seat flying with management flying EMB-190s. This is totally separate from the old MDA deal.

What you're talking about is old news. MDA was flying the -170s, not 90 seaters.

Nu

 

[Deli Guy]

Quote/email from Jetblue Jumpseat coordinator
Unfortunately, I feel we have reached an impasse with our jumpseat issues with NWA, in fact we are seeing it deteriorate even further. This does not imply that we will not continue to work toward a solution; it’s just a notice to our pilots that frequent NWA jumpseats for your commute to plan alternatives.

We had three of our pilots denied a jumpseat ride on NWA last week. We reported all three cases to the NWA jumpseat coordinator. The response we received was, “I spoke with ____ regarding his handling of the situation. Sorry, but our Captains have the authority to take or deny anyone they choose. I cannot force them to take anyone but a Fed. Unfortunately, it may get worse as our contract, work rules, and lifestyle degrade.”

I don’t interpret his message as a threat but rather as a matter of fact. Obviously the issues with their contract, work rules, and lifestyle degrade, are not the fault of jetBlue pilots. All we are is a convenient punching bag. The dilemma is that no one with the ability is correcting the miss-information.

For anyone that depends on NWA for your commute you should carry a non-rev pass as a back up. You can obtain a pass authorization by filling out an online form on the Pass Bureau website:

Also, please continue to send any reports of jumpseat issues on NWA. Each report is followed up with and is the only avenue we are offered toward a remedy at this point. We’ve been assured that each incident is followed up with the offender. We need: DATE, LOCATION, FLT #, CITY PAIR, and the name of the captain if possible.

As we persist to work on this issues, please continue to welcome all our off line jumpseat riders with our renown hospitality. Any type of retaliation or intimidation would only further deteriorate this situation.

Hey All,
I finally got hold of our JS coordinator. I must have used a bad email address but I did speak with him by phone. His position is a tricky one. He does defend the rights of all jumpseating pilots. His ideal concept would be for him to call the offending Captain, and have a discussion about how we all need each other to get to work etc, etc,. However, he said, it does not work that way. He has talked himself blue in the face to the individuals involved, and they (the Captains) stand by their rights to control their jumpseat. Our JS coordinator did say this is not a widespread conspiricy, just a handfull of guys with an "out there" notion that they are somehow making a statement. Our JS guy did say he would make a particular effort in the case of the Jet Blue pilots to try and explain to the offending Captain, that he was not making matters better for jumpseating in general, and that the action of denying the jump seat reflects poorly on our (NWA's) professionalisn. He is very synpathetic to the pilots who have had to go through this but he is limited in his power. He is also thankful of the professionalism the JetBlue folks have displayed. I wish I had a better report that had the problem solved. I will continue to spread the word on an individual basis with the Captains I fly with about this subject.
Deli Guy

 

[ExAF]

Embarrassing

I flew with a Capt last month that said he wouldn't let a JB pilot ride his jumpseat. His reasoning was BS. I tried to convince him he was wrong and making all NWA pilots look like asses. Don't know if I was successful in convincing him to change his ways since we never had any JB jumpseaters ask for a ride. If I hadn't seen it myself, I wouldn't have believed it. As embarrassing as it is, I now know that they are out there, but they are the exception rather than the rule. For the vast majority of NWA crews, JB pilots are as welcome on the JS as any other pilot group. Add my apologies to any of you out there that have had a bad experience with that minority.

 

[CUZ]

No worries mates. We honestly realize that the vast majority of you all are true professionals, and just caught up in this ugly industry mess like the rest of us. Just because theres a few knuckleheads out there is no reason to get into a tis. We have a couple of them too. You guys are welcome on my jumpseat anytime.

 

[Dizel8]

Jimmyboy,

Nope. The "new" USAirways pilot's have secured 90-100 seat flying with management flying EMB-190s. This is totally separate from the old MDA deal.

What you're talking about is old news. MDA was flying the -170s, not 90 seaters.

Nu

Now we have to see, what UALPA does with the people on the MDA deal? So far it does not look good!

 

[General Lee]

Now we have to see, what UALPA does with the people on the MDA deal? So far it does not look good!

I thought since AWA needed about 300 new pilots coming up here, they were going to hire them from the furloughed pilots. They probably would NOT get DOH from their USAir days, but I guess that is better than the street..... There are so many senior USAir people out on the street, that could be a real mess for the current AWA guys. I would rather start over and fly an AWA/USAir bus than start over at Republic etc.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IB6 UB9]

10-12 years until you hit the top of the 100 seat scale? Gawd, I hope you increase the rates before then. I would ask your union, um, scratch that. I would beg the Daves, um, no, that won't work. I would bring it up in your 5 year interviews.....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Your concern for us is flattering. I am impressed you have it in you to be able to put your own worries aside to focus on our well-being. How about a little advice...call it a grunt giving advice to a General. Spend a little more time looking over your shoulder pal...instead of our shoulders. After spouting for thousands of posts about raising the bar, lets see you do your part to keep it raised. I recall one of your more recent posts where you bleated like a sheep "It's in the judge's hands now, what can we do". How quickly you whistle a different tune after being knocked off your high perch. Good luck to you sir, this is an unforgiving industry.

 

[General Lee]

Your concern for us is flattering. I am impressed you have it in you to be able to put your own worries aside to focus on our well-being. How about a little advice...call it a grunt giving advice to a General. Spend a little more time looking over your shoulder pal...instead of our shoulders. After spouting for thousands of posts about raising the bar, lets see you do your part to keep it raised. I recall one of your more recent posts where you bleated like a sheep "It's in the judge's hands now, what can we do". How quickly you whistle a different tune after being knocked off your high perch. Good luck to you sir, this is an unforgiving industry.

I am so glad you guys had a HUGE outcry after your rates were IMPOSED on you......I really didn't hear much more than a small peep. Probably because most of you won't have to deal with the E190 IF YOU DON'T WANT TO. And you now tell us to do something, after your company set the lower bar. Now our options are limited, while you sit in the bus watching. We did raise the bar, and I can't wait to see you guys go for that same bar or higher.....Right? Riiiiiiiight. You SIR need to take your head out of your bottom. We added good things to this industry--a higher bar. Your lack of response (due to those pesky 5 year interviews that give you a little fear down your spine) hurt this industry. But hey, we all must have it wrong and you have it right. And, it was our pilot salaries that sent this industry into a spin......not high oil and bad management........Our fault. Yep, all ours.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[IB6 UB9]

I am so glad you guys had a HUGE outcry after your rates were IMPOSED on you......I really didn't hear much more than a small peep. Probably because most of you won't have to deal with the E190 IF YOU DON'T WANT TO. And you now tell us to do something, after your company set the lower bar. Now our options are limited, while you sit in the bus watching. We did raise the bar, and I can't wait to see you guys go for that same bar or higher.....Right? Riiiiiiiight. You SIR need to take your head out of your bottom. We added good things to this industry--a higher bar. Your lack of response (due to those pesky 5 year interviews that give you a little fear down your spine) hurt this industry. But hey, we all must have it wrong and you have it right. And, it was our pilot salaries that sent this industry into a spin......not high oil and bad management........Our fault. Yep, all ours.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General, the only thing you add to this industry is a source of entertainment for those of us who visit this forum and see from the amount of times you post here how pathetic your existance really is.

 

[General Lee]

General, the only thing you add to this industry is a source of entertainment for those of us who visit this forum and see from the amount of times you post here how pathetic your existance really is.

I am glad I entertain people. I also "see dead people." When? "All the time."

Good night. And, I am almost at 6,000 posts. That's wonderful. I really hope you guys eventually work on those low rates, because we will be there with you, hoping to do the same someday.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[B6Guy]

Get your facts straight

General get your facts straight before you spill your bile.

There are no 'five year interviews' None, never.

Our 'five year contract' is actually a FOREVER CONTRACT. It automaticaly
renews every five years, so in my mind that is forever.

The fact that you have almost 6000 post speaks volumes about you, I wouldn't be so proud of it if I were you.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Jump seats

Castle Bravo

I am an NWA DC9 FO in MSP and I have never seen any Capt deny anyone a JS... I have been at NWA since 98 and have not seen a JB pilot denied the JS.... I am sorry that it has happened... From our group, I apologize...

Good Luck!!!!!!!!

Hey IB6

" nobody should be doing this. I am sure that the Capt's involved are "head up their a$$" types"




My bet is that most of the offenders are MEM, and especially MSP crews. Since many of the DTW people are commuters themselves, it defies logic as to why they would engage in this embarrassing activity.