NWA wants DOH

[Fly4hire]

FDJ2, The cases have been made, nothing has been decided, we are still negotiating, but you parade around here absolutely trashing NALPA and stating with certainty it will be absolutely in your favor and of course the arbitrators will see "your" arguments as the True Way. I'm glad you have convinced yourself.

 

[michael707767]

Had the DAL list kept people closer to relative position instead of favoring ALL DAL pilots and hurting ALL NWA pilots it might have been more "fair". Stapling 10% of a pilot group and giving the rest of the pilot group a negative 1-6% cut in seniority is not "fair".

I won't even argue with you about the DAL proposal. But, do you really think DOH is even close to fair?

 

[Superpilot92]

I won't even argue with you about the DAL proposal. But, do you really think DOH is even close to fair?

I am not saying either side is "fair". Thats all in the eye of the beholder. However the 10 year fence makes DOH more fair imho. Those NWA pilots in front of the DAL pilots will be gone by the fence comes down and in the meantime the DAL positions and protections wont be lost. Also after 10 years the majority of the top of the list will be DAL pilots.

Again its not perfect but it doesnt negatively effect a large percentage of either pilot group over an entire career like the DAL staple and negative 1-6% hit that ALL NWA pilots get hit with under the DAL proposal. At least under the NWA proposal it eventually evens out and no body takes a career loss in seniority like the 10% staple job.


We'll see :beer:

 

[NuGuy]

I'm comfortable with the arbitration process and the fact that the the arbitrators see right through the smoke and mirrors presented by NALPA. The average DAL pilot gets 84 hours of pay/month, NALPA knows that as a fact, but chooses to paint a different picture in arbitration. Of course facts don't play well with the NWA MEC, facts weaken their case.

What the NWA MEC doesn't want the arbitrators to see:

NWA Hotline: [FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,BoldItalic]Tuesday, September 30, 2008[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Pay Rumor: NWA vs. DAL[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
[/FONT]It has been brought to the attention of the NWA MEC leadership that some pilots believe that when we go
to the DAL pay and work rules, pay raises will be a wash. The foundation of this belief is that we will get a pay raise followed by less working hours. This is a rumor.​

This incorrect statement computes pay based on our NWA monthly max to DAL Average Line Value
(ALV), as if ALV was the max for the month. This is not the case. The ALV is the average. To get the max for the month, 7.5 hours would need to be added to the monthly ALV (see chart below). In addition, last year the average pay for DAL pilots was round 84 hours per month; making it possible to get more hours of pay under the DAL system vs. the current NWA pay system.​

Naturally, given the choice of providing the arbitrators with factual information concerning DAL pay, the NWA MEC chose to present incorrect and misleading information.​

FDJ,

Your spin continues.

From one day AFTER the above was published:

October 1st, 2008

Yesterday’s Hotline contained a piece comparing flight hours under the Northwest contract to the Delta contract. Unfortunately, this item contained factual inaccuracies and has been pulled from the Hotline. We will provide our pilots with information on this subject in the future.

If you're going to spin something, at least use the most up to date version.

Nu

 

[Scope out RJ's]

FDJ,

Your spin continues.

From one day AFTER the above was published:

October 1st, 2008

Yesterday’s Hotline contained a piece comparing flight hours under the Northwest contract to the Delta contract. Unfortunately, this item contained factual inaccuracies and has been pulled from the Hotline. We will provide our pilots with information on this subject in the future.

If you're going to spin something, at least use the most up to date version.

Nu

Nu:
You guys are priceless! Can't your side ever get anything right? I guess after 22 years of infighting and 26 arbitrations, probably not.
But at least you can hold on to the fact that you got your duble super delux awsome premium totally rad wide body flying!:laugh:

 

[NuGuy]

I am not saying either side is "fair". Thats all in the eye of the beholder. However the 10 year fence makes DOH more fair imho. Those NWA pilots in front of the DAL pilots will be gone by the fence comes down and in the meantime the DAL positions and protections wont be lost. Also after 10 years the majority of the top of the list will be DAL pilots.

Again its not perfect but it doesnt negatively effect a large percentage of either pilot group over an entire career like the DAL staple and negative 1-6% hit that ALL NWA pilots get hit with under the DAL proposal. At least under the NWA proposal it eventually evens out and no body takes a career loss in seniority like the 10% staple job.

Heyas Super,

All you are seeing is the latest version of the DAL spin. It began way back when "they could stop ANY merger".

When RA came onboard to turn DAL into the "stealth NWA", it was "he's not here to do a merger".

None of them wanted to do anything with us (fine by me). But when it became apparent how toothless they really were in the face of management's real plan, they did the only thing they could do....roll over, run for cover (LOA 19) and spin it their way.

Check out their posts. They have always consisted with 4-5 carefully crafted "talking points". The truth? Doesn't matter....repeat something often enough, and it becomes "the truth". This is all right out of "Communications 101": At all costs, control the message. This is FDJs "official" task....do a search on "Astroturfing".

You can tell when the message breaks down and they are operating "off script". The spelling errors, bad grammar, and verbatim "cut and pastes" from various, self-designated Illuminati from their webboard. All signs of frustration at losing control of "the message".

The really curious thing about the "Keep Delta my Delta" crowd is that despite what you think about DOH or ratios, a tall fence does exactly that. Everyone stays with what they brought. Their Delta would be their Delta for a long time.

The real question is why THEY don't want a tall fence after spending 8 months on this very forum telling us about how little they think of our bases, aircraft and flying. You'd think that they wouldn't want anything to do with us, and would be all for a fence (which some, to their credit, have).

But if you take even a cursory look at "their list" after 5 years, you will see why: a 4:1 DAL occupation in every WB seat and most NB Captain seats. Their fences are short because they KNOW that the top numbers at NWA will be long gone in 3-5 years, providing unimpeded access to NWAs WB flying, along with a lion's share of the left seats on the 757.

The garbage about "it's too expensive for the company to administer" is absolute, unadulterated bovine scatology. Find ONE pilot who gives a rats a$$ about what management thinks when his seniorty is being discussed.

They're going to go back to negotiate. A deal will probably be in between the final positions from the beginning of the year.

Any arbitration award will probably look suspiciously similar.

Nu

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You think Nu? Of course it will look like what we were doing earlier this year.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Scope,

Why are you such an angry d@#Kh^%d?? If dalpas case is so strong then it won't really matter what nu, superpilot or any nwa guy on here says. Btw, they are just giving their take on the transcripts. It is an opinion just like yours, however they don't act like an ***********************************. You seem to have an anger issue with not only nwa pilots but with others. Get some help.

Nu:
You guys are priceless! Can't your side ever get anything right? I guess after 22 years of infighting and 26 arbitrations, probably not.
But at least you can hold on to the fact that you got your duble super delux awsome premium totally rad wide body flying!:laugh:

 

[Superpilot92]

Scope,

Why are you such an angry d@#Kh^%d?? If dalpas case is so strong then it won't really matter what nu, superpilot or any nwa guy on here says. Btw, they are just giving their take on the transcripts. It is an opinion just like yours, however they don't act like an ***********************************. You seem to have an anger issue with not only nwa pilots but with others. Get some help.

Agree 100%. Most of us post our opinions and all he/she does is come on here and flame anyone with a difference of opinion. Thats exactly why he/she is on my ignore list. Whats the point of an aviation discussion board if all you do is flame? Scope adds nothing meaningful to any discussion or debate.

 

[DTW320]

Scope,

Why are you such an angry d@#Kh^%d?? If dalpas case is so strong then it won't really matter what nu, superpilot or any nwa guy on here says. Btw, they are just giving their take on the transcripts. It is an opinion just like yours, however they don't act like an ***********************************. You seem to have an anger issue with not only nwa pilots but with others. Get some help.

Do yourself a favor and put "it" on your ignore list. Scope is the epitome of a waste of bandwidth. In case you didn't know, Scope is the latest screen name of the BANNED 737Pylt.