NWA TA ratified

[CaptainMark]

Just brought this back to remind everyone that d'angelo is an idiot...

 

[D'Angelo]

Just brought this back to remind everyone that d'angelo is an idiot...

So you think employers are the only ones that discriminate? Read again buddy

Seattle, WA (May 4, 2006) – With free legal assistance from the National Right to Work Foundation, a Safeway employee filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) union for maintaining a discriminatory policy intended to deter workers in King and Kitsat counties from exercising their religious freedoms.
Daniel Gautschi, manager in a Safeway meat department, filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington after union officials set forth conditions that force him to affiliate with – and pay additional money to – a union he finds morally offensive if he should ever have an employment grievance.
UFCW Local 81 union officials allowed the forwarding of Gautschi’s forced union dues (paid as a condition of employment) to a charity – an accommodation previously won by Foundation attorneys under federal law. However, they continue to maintain an illegal scheme intended to deter employees from exercising their right to assert religious objections in the first place. The scheme forces only employees who file religious objections to pay the union all costs associated with use of grievance procedures under the bargaining agreement – even though union officials tightly control the process and employees are totally barred from filing grievances on their own.
As a devout Christian, Gautschi believes that supporting the UFCW union violates his sincerely held religious beliefs due to the union hierarchy’s support for special rights for homosexuals.
On October 17, 2005, Gautschi filed charges (also with free legal aid from Foundation attorneys) with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). The EEOC issued a letter to Gautschi dated March 8 advising him he has the right to institute a civil action in federal court under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.
“Union officials want employees of faith to shut up and pay up,” said Stefan Gleason, vice president of the National Right to Work Foundation. “Employees should not be forced to choose between honoring their faith and exercising their workplace rights.”
Under Title VII, union officials may not force any employee to financially support a union if doing so violates the employee’s sincerely held religious beliefs. To avoid the conflict between an employee’s faith and a requirement to pay fees to a union he or she believes to be immoral, the law requires union officials to attempt to accommodate the employee – most often by designating a mutually acceptable charity to accept the funds.
Gautschi’s lawsuit seeks a permanent injunction barring the UFCW union from discriminating against him on the basis of religion, as well as an order that the union inform all employees under the monopoly bargaining agreement that those with religious objections need not additionally reimburse the union for any costs associated with grievance processing. Union officials demanded and received total monopoly control over the grievance process. Nevertheless, they seek to force religious objectors – but not others covered by the monopoly bargaining agreement – to pay large sums of money to the union if they have a grievance in the workplace.
The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation is a nonprofit, charitable organization providing free legal aid to employees whose human or civil rights have been violated by compulsory unionism abuses. The Foundation, which can be contacted toll-free at 1-800-336-3600, is assisting over 250,000 employees in over 200 cases nationwide.

 

[CaptainMark]

shut up and pay up .

you should read it again...nevermind..i highlighted the most important part

 

[whymeworry?]

The MAJORITY did what they thought was best for them. You seem to think this is a stalinist regime. WRONG. The NWA guys voted to save their careers and I commend them for it. Its time to start bowing to this illogical union pressure!!!! BUY THOSE NWA MEN A BEER. It doesnt matter whats best for the industry it matters whats best for them. They voted and thats that. End of story. They have bal*s.

You don't know the first thing about unionism. And you certainly don't know a thing about leverage in the barginnig process. Look at AQ. Their pilots showed up everyday to a SRO courtroom proceeding thereby scaring the judge into seeing just how serious they were at defending the profession and their jobs.

By contrast, NW pilots did, for all intents and purposes, nothing. Since they put little or no effort into their fight, they got a $hitty contract. BTW, if they think this contract is bad now, wait till they experience the enforcement side of it, or lack thereof, over the next 5 years. The company is going to attempt to violate it every chance they get. It's going to be purely miserable to fly there... unless your a senior 74 driver.

Good Luck, NW guys and gals. Ya' get what ya' fight for... or in this case what you didn't fight for.


What everybody on these boards and in ALPA seem to forget is this:

Remember why DAL and NW filed CH 11? BECAUSE THE BANCRUPTCY LAWS WERE CHANGING! Changing in a way that managements would no longer be compensated with ridiculous stock options as the result of a CH 11 bailout process. Both NW and DAL filed just days prior to the law change and they weren't in any worse shape than Continental or American. They filed as a strategy that was in part motivated by greed. And nobody has called them on this... because everyone involved is shock that the ship is actually sinking.

Fact is, while their financial problems were certainly monumentous, many airlines with similar situations have proven you can tighten the belt, hunker down and work with labor to get through to the next level. The timing of NW and DAL ch 11 process was most obviously motivated by corporate greed. A greed that is probably more prominent now that it has ever been before in the history of this country.

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/

 

[D'Angelo]

you should read it again...nevermind..i highlighted the most important part

Hey if the Almighty ALPO is so great why should it be pay up or shut up? BTW I still pay my dues, reluctantly but still pay them. Its the only way I can still vote on the issues. If they were really convinced on how great they were there would be no need for forced fees or dues or whatever. It shouldnt matter if your in a right to work state or not. No forced fees, no forced dues but still the ability to vote. They are cowards thats why they do not allow it. They are too afraid the house is crumbling and they will lose a lot of money because not nearly as many people are rah rah as you think.

 

[D'Angelo]

You don't know the first thing about unionism. And you certainly don't know a thing about leverage in the barginnig process. Look at AQ. Their pilots showed up everyday to a SRO courtroom proceeding thereby scaring the judge into seeing just how serious they were at defending the profession and their jobs.

By contrast, NW pilots did, for all intents and purposes, nothing. Since they put little or no effort into their fight, they got a $hitty contract. BTW, if they think this contract is bad now, wait till they experience the enforcement side of it, or lack thereof, over the next 5 years. The company is going to attempt to violate it every chance they get. It's going to be purely miserable to fly there... unless your a senior 74 driver.

Good Luck, NW guys and gals. Ya' get what ya' fight for... or in this case what you didn't fight for.


What everybody on these boards and in ALPA seem to forget is this:

Remember why DAL and NW filed CH 11? BECAUSE THE BANCRUPTCY LAWS WERE CHANGING! Changing in a way that managements would no longer be compensated with ridiculous stock options as the result of a CH 11 bailout process. Both NW and DAL filed just days prior to the law change and they weren't in any worse shape than Continental or American. They filed as a strategy that was in part motivated by greed. And nobody has called them on this... because everyone involved is shock that the ship is actually sinking.

Fact is, while their financial problems were certainly monumentous, many airlines with similar situations have proven you can tighten the belt, hunker down and work with labor to get through to the next level. The timing of NW and DAL ch 11 process was most obviously motivated by corporate greed. A greed that is probably more prominent now that it has ever been before in the history of this country.

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/

Union greed is just as bad, they provide false hope and promises then lead the sheep to the slaughter. Just look at what is happening in the auto industry. The unions led them astray, let them fall on the sword and laughed all the way to the bank. You see with how easy it is to outsource most jobs(pilots not included) unions really are a foolish proposition now a days. Sure its hard to replace pilots for now however due to the glut of flying its easy to simply transfer flying to another carrier. Its internal outsourcing if you will. So the AQ pilots did their little chants in the end they still took pay cuts. The NWA guys decided this was what was best for them and they voted on it. Its not your place to tell someone else whats best for them, pure union rhetoric right there.

 

[doh]

So you think employers are the only ones that discriminate? Read again buddy

Seattle, WA (May 4, 2006) – With free legal assistance from the National Right to Work Foundation, a Safeway employee filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) union for maintaining a discriminatory policy intended to deter workers in King and Kitsat counties from exercising their religious freedoms.
Daniel Gautschi, manager in a Safeway meat department, filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington after union officials set forth conditions that force him to affiliate with – and pay additional money to – a union he finds morally offensive if he should ever have an employment grievance.
UFCW Local 81 union officials allowed the forwarding of Gautschi’s forced union dues (paid as a condition of employment) to a charity – an accommodation previously won by Foundation attorneys under federal law. However, they continue to maintain an illegal scheme intended to deter employees from exercising their right to assert religious objections in the first place. The scheme forces only employees who file religious objections to pay the union all costs associated with use of grievance procedures under the bargaining agreement – even though union officials tightly control the process and employees are totally barred from filing grievances on their own.
As a devout Christian, Gautschi believes that supporting the UFCW union violates his sincerely held religious beliefs due to the union hierarchy’s support for special rights for homosexuals.
On October 17, 2005, Gautschi filed charges (also with free legal aid from Foundation attorneys) with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). The EEOC issued a letter to Gautschi dated March 8 advising him he has the right to institute a civil action in federal court under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.
“Union officials want employees of faith to shut up and pay up,” said Stefan Gleason, vice president of the National Right to Work Foundation. “Employees should not be forced to choose between honoring their faith and exercising their workplace rights.”
Under Title VII, union officials may not force any employee to financially support a union if doing so violates the employee’s sincerely held religious beliefs. To avoid the conflict between an employee’s faith and a requirement to pay fees to a union he or she believes to be immoral, the law requires union officials to attempt to accommodate the employee – most often by designating a mutually acceptable charity to accept the funds.
Gautschi’s lawsuit seeks a permanent injunction barring the UFCW union from discriminating against him on the basis of religion, as well as an order that the union inform all employees under the monopoly bargaining agreement that those with religious objections need not additionally reimburse the union for any costs associated with grievance processing. Union officials demanded and received total monopoly control over the grievance process. Nevertheless, they seek to force religious objectors – but not others covered by the monopoly bargaining agreement – to pay large sums of money to the union if they have a grievance in the workplace.
The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation is a nonprofit, charitable organization providing free legal aid to employees whose human or civil rights have been violated by compulsory unionism abuses. The Foundation, which can be contacted toll-free at 1-800-336-3600, is assisting over 250,000 employees in over 200 cases nationwide.

This is actually a simple case. Check to see if the union was on the property when this yahoo was hired. If the union was in place, then Gautschi freely associated with the union at the time of his employment and has no case. He is free to quit and can associate with a non-union employer. It is in the constitution that he has freedom of association, but the other workers also have the freedom to associate with the union. He knew there was a union and took the job any way.

P.S. You still have not addressed my points about government interference in our employee/employer relations. Are you still for forced accession to the government in matters relating to the work place? Or do you agree that the government should butt out?

 

[CaptainMark]

If they were really convinced on how great they were there would be no need for forced fees or dues or whatever.

ya right...pilots are the cheapest people on the planet...we still have non-paying members enjoying the benefits from our last contract and don't pay a dime....such as the B-fund...the jumpseat to work deal...the pay increases...vacation policy etc....give any excuse u want...they are just too cheap....i do admire the fact that u r smart enough to pay so u can vote...but i saw the comair deal....maybe u should quit...

 

[737 Pylt]

ya right...pilots are the cheapest people on the planet...we still have non-paying members enjoying the benefits from our last contract and don't pay a dime....such as the B-fund...the jumpseat to work deal...the pay increases...vacation policy etc....give any excuse u want...they are just too cheap....i do admire the fact that u r smart enough to pay so u can vote...but i saw the comair deal....maybe u should quit...

He's busy preparing for his replacement as a flight attendant when they walk out. Don't you know, D'Angelo makes enough money.....Why because' he's 23, and lives at home with his mom and dad, pays no rent, mom and dad pay his car insurance, and he buys no food, so the money he makes as an underpaid f/o is used to chase high school girls at the local mall on friday nights!
737

 

[D'Angelo]

This is actually a simple case. Check to see if the union was on the property when this yahoo was hired. If the union was in place, then Gautschi freely associated with the union at the time of his employment and has no case. He is free to quit and can associate with a non-union employer. It is in the constitution that he has freedom of association, but the other workers also have the freedom to associate with the union. He knew there was a union and took the job any way.

P.S. You still have not addressed my points about government interference in our employee/employer relations. Are you still for forced accession to the government in matters relating to the work place? Or do you agree that the government should butt out?

Basically what your saying is you want your cake and to eat it too. So not only do you want to have to constanly be able to change your contract and if you don't get what you want you throw a tantrum and go on strike every 5 years. If you don't like the results of your CBA you can always quit. You basically want to be able to throw a tantrum, strike then be able to come back to work when the issue is settled. You don't want to quit because you dont like it you want the ability to hold not only the company but the flying public hostage because you don't always get what you want. Government intrustion is an unfortunate reality in this buisness. Its really quite simple if you don't like the contract then quit. You basically want to be able to quit, stomp your feet like a toddler then get your job back when you get what you want without any consequences. Basically a strike is a privledge not a right granted only under very special circumstances. Your always free to quit however you shouldnt be able to just walk off the job and come back when you get what you want. With no government intrusion there would be no RLA and you wouldnt even have a right to strike ever. The govt is the one that stepped in and allowed the whole union thing to go down. If you want no government interferance then the RLA should be taken away, no more arbitrators, no more courts, nothing. Thats right it would be a union free world. Maybe taking the government out of the equation is the best answer. Find a way to repeal all of the laws pertaining to unionism and let the chips fall where they must. What you propose is not negotiating thats called holding someone hostage. Yea thats worked real well with unions. How many former union production jobs have been outsourced again? This is why arbitration is the best answer. You still get to keep your union if you want it and you find the fairest deal possible without breaking the bank

 

[PCL_128]

Why do you guys even bother with this idiot? It's obvious that he's either a management goon or a flamebaiter that just gets off on working everyone up. Ignore him and he'll go away.

 

[doh]

You could not possibly be more wrong. The constitution gaurantees me the RIGHT to associate with whom I please. It also gives me the RIGHT to enter into contracts. Therefore, if I and my co-unionists democratically (even you retain the right to vote) reach a voluntary agreement with our employer, we can have a closed shop. Then when others seek employment, they can also decide if they want to voluntarily associate with us, or they may seek employment elsewhere. Management has the right to not agree to a closed shop. If we strike, management has an absolute right to replace us. But once they enter into a voluntary agreement, they have an obligation to abide by that agreement until it expires. Doing away with the RLA and government interference in our lives would not end our constitutional right to freedom of association, as this is governments proper roll, that of upholding the constitution. I hope that clarifies it for you, but I hold little hope.

 

[kmox29]

If you don't like the results of your CBA you can always quit.

Right on! Whatever you do, DO NOT fight for what is right. Just hurry up and quit. I mean c'mon! All you mainline guys "acting like toddlers" and forcing management's hand trying to improve you quality of life...get real! If you'd just stop yer whining and quit, D'Angelo would be able to get your job faster. You guys are making it awfully difficult on him. Show some love to the CRJ pilot working for peanuts (market driven peanuts might I add).

 

[D'Angelo]

You could not possibly be more wrong. The constitution gaurantees me the RIGHT to associate with whom I please. It also gives me the RIGHT to enter into contracts. Therefore, if I and my co-unionists democratically (even you retain the right to vote) reach a voluntary agreement with our employer, we can have a closed shop. Then when others seek employment, they can also decide if they want to voluntarily associate with us, or they may seek employment elsewhere. Management has the right to not agree to a closed shop. If we strike, management has an absolute right to replace us. But once they enter into a voluntary agreement, they have an obligation to abide by that agreement until it expires. Doing away with the RLA and government interference in our lives would not end our constitutional right to freedom of association, as this is governments proper roll, that of upholding the constitution. I hope that clarifies it for you, but I hold little hope.

You can associate with whom you please but lets just say your at a non union airline. You have 60 % vote the union in and 40% say they don't want it. So what you should tell the 40% either join or hit the road? They were there before the union was formed werent they. They should have the right not to pay dues and not to join the union. You can still associate with whomever you wish however the government is the ones who have made things the way they are. Basically the union forces everyone to go on strike with the threat of violence and smear campaigns. So just because 60% wanted the union does that mean you should be able to force it into a closed shop and make the 40% join if they don't want to. Theres no way the company is goign to fire 40% of the work force just because the union demands it. BTW if there was no RLA then there would be no strike and you could be fired without the right to a hearing. Its all spelled out in the laws. Without the laws requiring it the company wouldnt even have to recognize the union.

 

[D'Angelo]

Right on! Whatever you do, DO NOT fight for what is right. Just hurry up and quit. I mean c'mon! All you mainline guys "acting like toddlers" and forcing management's hand trying to improve you quality of life...get real! If you'd just stop yer whining and quit, D'Angelo would be able to get your job faster. You guys are making it awfully difficult on him. Show some love to the CRJ pilot working for peanuts (market driven peanuts might I add).

Sorry my friend that is a perfect example of extreme examples. I am not working for peanuts. If I was working for peanuts I wouldnt be a condo owner, wouldnt be able to take the lady on a nice vacation once a year, wouldnt be able to drive a decent car, would be living on welfare. Guess what we are doing just fine, especially with the combined income. We could still make it ok on just mine however when she works too we really live it up. True we do not have kids but some day we will. Then we will just have to budget properly. The right to strike is an idea that belongs in the old times. Again look at all the outsourcing that took union jobs and put them overseas. It would be very difficult to do that for us however if open skies is ever allowed you better watch out.

 

[kmox29]

Sorry my friend that is a perfect example of extreme examples.

So is the old, tired "If you don't like it, quit" BS. I also know that you think your CRJ pay rate is just fine. So you don't have to tell me your life story. Just realize that some of want a little more out of life than living in a condo, driving a decent car, and having to budget just to have a kid.

By the way, contrary to popular belief, it's not me in my Avatar...that's mah boy. And budgeting my arse off to make things work sucks. I'm willing to fight for what I believe is right. You're perfectly content to sit back and react to your "market driven" lifestyle.

PCL, I know D'Angelo is a moron. It's just fun debating with him.

 

[D'Angelo]

So is the old, tired "If you don't like it, quit" BS. I also know that you think your CRJ pay rate is just fine. So you don't have to tell me your life story. Just realize that some of want a little more out of life than living in a condo, driving a decent car, and having to budget just to have a kid.

By the way, contrary to popular belief, it's not me in my Avatar...that's mah boy. And budgeting my arse off to make things work sucks. I'm willing to fight for what I believe is right. You're perfectly content to sit back and react to your "market driven" lifestyle.

PCL, I know D'Angelo is a moron. It's just fun debating with him.

Hey we all want to be millionaires livin it up however that will not happen with about 98% of the nation. We are absolutely livin it up. Nice condo, secure building, highrise, spacious. The entire premise of a strike is to quit then get your job back when you finally get what you want. Thats why arbitration is so good. It forces management and ALPO to come up with their HONEST and TRUTHFUL best offers. No playing games, no lowballing, no shooting for the moon just straight up negotiating. The fairest deal whens and everyone survives. Why should airfares have to go up just so we can have a lavish lifestyle? Again we all have the right to quit if we are unhappy with our situation and try to find a better one. The day of the strike is numbered. Time to look forward to life in the 21st century and get that arbitration rolling

 

[doh]

You can associate with whom you please but lets just say your at a non union airline. You have 60 % vote the union in and 40% say they don't want it. So what you should tell the 40% either join or hit the road? They were there before the union was formed werent they. They should have the right not to pay dues and not to join the union. You can still associate with whomever you wish however the government is the ones who have made things the way they are. Basically the union forces everyone to go on strike with the threat of violence and smear campaigns. So just because 60% wanted the union does that mean you should be able to force it into a closed shop and make the 40% join if they don't want to. Theres no way the company is goign to fire 40% of the work force just because the union demands it. BTW if there was no RLA then there would be no strike and you could be fired without the right to a hearing. Its all spelled out in the laws. Without the laws requiring it the company wouldnt even have to recognize the union.

Okay D'ooschbag,
Let's start with the first stupid, wrong thing that came out of your mouth. If you work for a non-union carrier and the union gets voted in, you are grandfathered, ie; you don't have to join or pay dues. Go to the CMR CL65 captains bid packet, look at number one. His initials are M.W. He is one of my all time favorite captains from my brasilia f/o days. He did not join and does not pay dues, you can ask him yourself. Do you feel stupid now, because you certainly look stupid and uninformed for that matter. Without the RLA, if they fired one of us without cause, then all of us would walk off the job until the situation was rectified. If management does not recognise the union, we stay home until they replace us or recognise us. Note please that I said management, not "the company". I AM THE COMPANY. Management is just a bunch of carpet bagging thieves, temporarily looting the coffers while I am out building the business.

 

[doh]

... True we do not have kids but some day we will...

OMFG, say it ain't so!

 

[doh]

Hey we all want to be millionaires livin it up however that will not happen with about 98% of the nation. We are absolutely livin it up. Nice condo, secure building, highrise, spacious. The entire premise of a strike is to quit then get your job back when you finally get what you want. Thats why arbitration is so good. It forces management and ALPO to come up with their HONEST and TRUTHFUL best offers. No playing games, no lowballing, no shooting for the moon just straight up negotiating. The fairest deal whens and everyone survives. Why should airfares have to go up just so we can have a lavish lifestyle? Again we all have the right to quit if we are unhappy with our situation and try to find a better one. The day of the strike is numbered. Time to look forward to life in the 21st century and get that arbitration rolling

And here you go again. If you can't negotiate for yourself, you can always ask for socialism. That is what you get when the government micromanages all these things. You still have not told me why you believe the government should have the final say about our working conditions. You still have not told me how the third "neutral" would be picked for an arbitration panel. Will that "neutral" be put in place by the government, or chosen in a manner stipulated by the government?

 

[Green]

Disregard Capt Mark is out of touch with the rest of the world. He is lucky enough to get hired by FedEx at age 25 and he thinks it has something to do with his skill and desire.

Capt Mark is right on. This is a demanding profession that requires a massive amount of time, money, and skill to succeed. We should be paid accordingly and unless you live in Alabama or something 100k/year does not make you a well paid individual anymore.

People like you and Dangelo could do the industry a favor by switching over to Corporate aviation. You could grovel before management all you want and most likely won't have to worry about making a decent wage.

 

[Green]

Sorry my friend that is a perfect example of extreme examples. I am not working for peanuts. If I was working for peanuts I wouldnt be a condo owner, wouldnt be able to take the lady on a nice vacation once a year, wouldnt be able to drive a decent car, would be living on welfare. Guess what we are doing just fine, especially with the combined income. We could still make it ok on just mine however when she works too we really live it up. True we do not have kids but some day we will. Then we will just have to budget properly. The right to strike is an idea that belongs in the old times. Again look at all the outsourcing that took union jobs and put them overseas. It would be very difficult to do that for us however if open skies is ever allowed you better watch out.

You know you almost have to admire this guy. Give him a condo, a honda civic, and three nights a year in Myrtle Beach and he's happy for life. It's hard to get let down if you live life with low expectations. You should write a book d'angelo.

 

[737 Pylt]

I am not working for peanuts. If I was working for peanuts I wouldnt be a condo owner, wouldnt be able to take the lady on a nice vacation once a year, wouldnt be able to drive a decent car, would be living on welfare.

Translation:

I live at home with my mom and day....I don't have to pay rent, because dad sees I make squat and thinks that its ok because he can brag that I'm a pilot for a major airline. I don't even have to pay for car insurance because mom and dad think that it will help me put more money away. AAAAAND.....All the money I make is for me to go out cruising the malls on the weekend picking up high school chicks that think that I'm a really cool airline pilot!

Guys:
This turd is a loser....His posts speak volumes of either being really uneducated or a management puke! Either way, he wins the idiot of the decade award! Just look at some of the drivel he posts! For example my tag line!
737

 

[pilotyip]

Wow!

Wow! Green 4000 hours you are really experienced and cool. With that much time you must know everything there is to know about everything. I am impressed you would tag my call sign in a thread. There are many ways to define success and happiness, but in the end it is the individual's right to define his own. Those are the poeple who are truely blessed.

 

[Green]

Wow! Green 4000 hours you are really experienced and cool. With that much time you must know everything there is to know about everything. I am impressed you would tag my call sign in a thread. There are many ways to define success and happiness, but in the end it is the individual's right to define his own. Those are the poeple who are truely blessed.

My bad for lumping you in with D'angelo. His posts throw me off a bit. If you're happy topping out around 100k so be it, good for you. I think we're worth more. Just a difference of opinion. Of course the market might not bear more.

As for knowing everything, I'm not quite there but getting darn close. Maybe after reaching 4200 hours. Calling me 'cool' might be a bit of a stretch though...lol

 

[D'Angelo]

Okay D'ooschbag,
Let's start with the first stupid, wrong thing that came out of your mouth. If you work for a non-union carrier and the union gets voted in, you are grandfathered, ie; you don't have to join or pay dues. Go to the CMR CL65 captains bid packet, look at number one. His initials are M.W. He is one of my all time favorite captains from my brasilia f/o days. He did not join and does not pay dues, you can ask him yourself. Do you feel stupid now, because you certainly look stupid and uninformed for that matter. Without the RLA, if they fired one of us without cause, then all of us would walk off the job until the situation was rectified. If management does not recognise the union, we stay home until they replace us or recognise us. Note please that I said management, not "the company". I AM THE COMPANY. Management is just a bunch of carpet bagging thieves, temporarily looting the coffers while I am out building the business.

Again no one may have to join the union but you still arent allowed to vote. I highly doubt all of you would walk off the job. Its really quite simple if management didnt have to recognize the union they wouldnt. The RLA requires them to recognize the union. Without that it would be even more of a shell game passing flying around to non union carriers. You really live in an ideal world if you think everyone would just walk off their job without the protections of the RLA. Without the rules of a strike they can simply fire all of you, take the parachute and laugh as you stand there like a bunch of tards. To say no one in the union is corrupt is also foolish. We all know of some of the crap unions have pulled in the past. It doesn't matter if you don't have to join or pay dues you still cant vote like you should be able to since you are also an employee. There are definately a few non members out there however your not allowed to vote on issues to the best of my understanding. The supreme court has ruled pilots can be forced by unions to pay maintenace fees. Would the union forgive those? I dunno I have never asked anyone that is a non member. I have never flown with M.W but have heard of him. I dont really ask people whos a member or not because quite frankly that is their buisness. BTW if the RLA "impedes on your constitutional rights" why dont you try taking it up with the supreme court? See how far that gets you. We should have arbitration because unions are out of control. They are out of touch with membership and they demand outrageous things. It's quite simple really most jobs don't even have contracts. You just have a salary that you agree to work for with management which BTW can be cut without a vote or anything. Unions are what have provided the contracts which come from guess what laws that the government created. You are not entitled to even have contracts without laws that the government has in place. Sure you can demand it if you want but without the law requiring the company to do it they would simply laugh in your face and tell you "if you don't like it quit". You are quite the idealist though I give you credit for this. Without the RLA how are you going to get everyone organized to walk out when you dont get your way? What do you do if the majority doesnt want to walk? How do you even get a contract? Most non union companies have some type of policy manual or something however its not enforceable without the RLA requiring the grievance process. How do you plan to fix all that? Oh ya I forgot your going to walk every time you dont get your way, like a toddler. I wonder how many people would actually follow your lead. One always wonders if there is a strike but buisness goes on as usual was there ever really a strike? Arbitration is the best solution. It forces the union to stop being ridiculous and forces the company to stop being ridiculous. You each get your own arbitrator then one neutral one mutually agreed upon. It isnt government interferance its solving a dispute. Remember if you get enough people together you can always walk any time you want, there is no law against quitting. If you get enough people to walk voluntarily theres nothing the courts or anyone can do about it. Oh thats rightt you want to be accepted back every time you throw your tantrum.

 

[D'Angelo]

Translation:

I live at home with my mom and day....I don't have to pay rent, because dad sees I make squat and thinks that its ok because he can brag that I'm a pilot for a major airline. I don't even have to pay for car insurance because mom and dad think that it will help me put more money away. AAAAAND.....All the money I make is for me to go out cruising the malls on the weekend picking up high school chicks that think that I'm a really cool airline pilot!

Guys:
This turd is a loser....His posts speak volumes of either being really uneducated or a management puke! Either way, he wins the idiot of the decade award! Just look at some of the drivel he posts! For example my tag line!
737

Ha believe what you want why dont you stop by my condo sometime buddy? You guys just don't want to believe that happiness is possible without making gobs of money. No one cares what you invested in this career. No one held a gun to your head forcing you to shell out all that money. No one forces you to endure the checkrides the medicals blah blah blah. We all knew it was an FAA requirement before taking the job. If you didnt know that then shame on you for not doing your homework before you start a job. Everytime someone says something the unionguys dont like they always end up resorting to name calling or violence. There is definately a toddler complex going on here at all airlines with angry unions.

 

[D'Angelo]

Capt Mark is right on. This is a demanding profession that requires a massive amount of time, money, and skill to succeed. We should be paid accordingly and unless you live in Alabama or something 100k/year does not make you a well paid individual anymore.

People like you and Dangelo could do the industry a favor by switching over to Corporate aviation. You could grovel before management all you want and most likely won't have to worry about making a decent wage.

YOU knew the terms of the career before you started. Again if you didnt know all that was required shame on you. You cant go through all that voluntarily then complain that you dont make enough. No one cares what training you went through or how much you spent or how many checkrides you go through. You make what the market sets plain and simple. Obviously at comair the market couldnt quite bear our payrates so we had to save ourselves from ourselves and vote in the paycut.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Note please that I said management, not "the company". I AM THE COMPANY. Management is just a bunch of carpet bagging thieves, temporarily looting the coffers while I am out building the business.

Well said. Someone give me an "Amen!"

As for our favorite R&B artist: Unfortunately, I don't think he/she will tire of being an annoying broken record. Probably being paid handsomely to troll FI spewing anti-labor rhetoric. Over 300 posts since January. And so many words!

In some ways we should appreciate it: the FI readership is finally more or less unified on at least one topic.

 

[D'Angelo]

Well said. Someone give me an "Amen!"

As for our favorite R&B artist: Unfortunately, I don't think he/she will tire of being an annoying broken record. Probably being paid handsomely to troll FI spewing anti-labor rhetoric. Over 300 posts since January. And so many words!

In some ways we should appreciate it: the FI readership is finally more or less unified on at least one topic.

haha you wanna talk about broken records listen to all the chest thumpers on this site. HOLD THE LINE, MANAGEMENT IS EVIL AND HATES EVERY LIVING PERSON, FULL PAY TIL THE LAST DAY, NOT ONE PENNY, BURN IT DOWN, STRIKE THIS STRIKE THAT, WE ARE THE UNION COLLECTIVE WE WISH TO ASSIMILATE ALL WHO DISAGREE WITH US. There is no such thing as unity anymore. Doh so you say YOU are the company eh? Do you sign your own checks, do you run anything behind the scenes besides flying? No your job is to fly from point a to point b wherever you now work if you still fly. Management is sort of the company. They sign your paychecks and allow you to make a living. The company is no one really. It is a name on a piece of paper so buisness can be done. It is a name used for brand recognition. It is quite arrogant to think any one group is the company. Everyone combines to help the company run. Would the company run without pilots nope but it sure wouldnt run without management either. BTW thank god pilots dont run airlines. Trust me they would be in a lot worse shape.