NWA TA ratified

[CaptainMark]

what is a 10 star senior member?

i was awarded that for the continual friendly banter back and forth with you!!!!!!!

 

[pilotyip]

Then I should be a 15 star senior member for bantering with both you and SWA F/O

 

[regionaltard]

D'Angelo is gone, he's really gone!

Well, not really I just figured out how to ignore him on the User CP.

To paraphrase someone else's comment on the same topic (Tony C maybe?), as long as people continue to quote It, It is never truly gone.

 

[densoo]

Does anybody know if the NWA rates curenlty posted (5/7/06) on airline pilot central are the rates before or after the TA takes effect?

[FONT=Arial,Bold]NWA Tentative Agreement [FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]



[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Bold]Effective DOS[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Bold]

Equip Year 6 Year 7 Year 8 Year 9 Year 10 Year 11 Year 12​

747-400 ​

[/FONT]$ 168.74 $ 170.06 $ 171.38 $ 172.72 $ 174.04 $ 175.36 $ 176.69
[FONT=Arial,Bold]747 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$ 160.53 $ 161.80 $ 163.05 $ 164.32 $ 165.58 $ 166.83 $ 168.10

[FONT=Arial,Bold]B7E7 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$ 155.05 $ 156.27 $ 157.49 $ 158.71 $ 159.92 $ 161.14 $ 162.36

[FONT=Arial,Bold]A330-800/900 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$ 155.05 $ 156.27 $ 157.49 $ 158.71 $ 159.92 $ 161.14 $ 162.36

[FONT=Arial,Bold]A330-200/300 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$ 151.96 $ 153.16 $ 154.35 $ 155.55 $ 156.74 $ 157.93 $ 159.13

[FONT=Arial,Bold]DC-10 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]


[/FONT]

$ 151.21 $ 152.40 $ 153.59 $ 154.77 $ 155.96 $ 157.15 $ 158.33​

[FONT=Arial,Bold]757 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$ 135.88 $ 136.95 $ 138.01 $ 139.08 $ 140.15 $ 141.22 $ 142.28

[FONT=Arial,Bold]A320 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$ 130.78 $ 131.81 $ 132.83 $ 133.86 $ 134.89 $ 135.91 $ 136.94

[FONT=Arial,Bold]DC-9 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$ 118.11 $ 119.04 $ 119.96 $ 120.89 $ 121.82 $ 122.75 $ 123.68

[FONT=Arial,Bold]101-110 Seat Jet [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$95.25 $98.99 $ 102.87 $ 106.91 $ 111.11 $ 115.47 $ 116.37

[FONT=Arial,Bold]EMB-195 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$90.58 $ 92.99 $ 95.39 $ 97.79 $ 100.19 $ 102.60 $ 105.00

[FONT=Arial,Bold]77-100 Seat Jet [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold]
[/FONT]$ 87.53 $ 89.29 $ 91.07 $ 92.89 $ 94.74 $ 96.64 $ 98.58



[/FONT]

 

[whymeworry?]

Wasn't there a post on flightinfo last week about a letter from a retired DAL captain pissed off because ALPA was in-effect selling his pension down the river?

Clearly the senior pilots at NW totally screwed the junior ones, as is histroically the case in unionism. Once their pension gets the shaft , ala UAL style, it will be hard to have any sympathy for those guys. They voted yes to help ruin our industry and ruin the careers of their own union brothers. So much for ALPA unity.

The race continues.

 

[D'Angelo]

Wasn't there a post on flightinfo last week about a letter from a retired DAL captain pissed off because ALPA was in-effect selling his pension down the river?

Clearly the senior pilots at NW totally screwed the junior ones, as is histroically the case in unionism. Once their pension gets the shaft , ala UAL style, it will be hard to have any sympathy for those guys. They voted yes to help ruin our industry and ruin the careers of their own union brothers. So much for ALPA unity.

The race continues.

The MAJORITY did what they thought was best for them. You seem to think this is a stalinist regime. WRONG. The NWA guys voted to save their careers and I commend them for it. Its time to start bowing to this illogical union pressure!!!! BUY THOSE NWA MEN A BEER. It doesnt matter whats best for the industry it matters whats best for them. They voted and thats that. End of story. They have bal*s.

 

[D'Angelo]

Because you just want to fly your shiny CRJ, no matter what the overall cost to the industry is. Why do I get the impression that I'm fighting pilots like you more than I'm fighting management?

Is this why people have this guy on ignore?

Why is it that SOMEONE ELSE always has to take the fall just so everyone else can have a good industry. Guess what at comair everyone wanted us to be someone else. We said screw em and voted what was best for us. It was close but none the less the majority spoke. We get to decide "what is best for the industry" now. Obviously if we could not still make a decent living we wouldn't have voted yes. Sorry I am unwilling to sacrifice my career so someone else can take my job. NOT ON MY DIME NOT ON MY TIME. I dont care what the vocal minority says anymore.

 

[kmox29]

Sorry I am unwilling to sacrifice my career so someone else can take my job.

It's not a career anymore. Due to attitudes like yours spread across the industry, this is just a job now. I think I've learned something...at XJ, my fight is with management. For my profession, my fight is with people like you.

I'm willing to "lose my job" and vote no at XJ. I don't want to contribute to this crap that's going on in the industry. Could I take a 20% pay cut and still make a living? Yes. As a college graduate with over 7000 hours, 10+ years in my profession, and 7 years of loyality to my company, do I deserve more than $45,000 a year? You're f*%king right I do!

But not you.

Your answer to everything is: the majority spoke. Ever think that the majority is wrong?

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm willing to "lose my job" and vote no at XJ. I don't want to contribute to this crap that's going on in the industry. Could I take a 20% pay cut and still make a living? Yes. As a college graduate with over 7000 hours, 10+ years in my profession, and 7 years of loyality to my company, do I deserve more than $45,000 a year? You're f*%king right I do!

Very true. D'Angelo (Da Anglo) is a short-sighted moron. "Buy those guys at NWA a beer?" They don't want your beer, Danglo. To them, YOU stole THEIR job. Why do you think the most contentious issue in their fight was scope, not wages? You are not the solution, you are the problem.

Maybe you need to come up from your parent's basement and walk out into the daylight.

Price out a real house in any West Coast city (not a "starter house"), a private school for your kids, a condo or a nice boat, and a couple of vacations to internatational destinations a year, and college for your kids, or whatever you think an Airline Captain could expect to provide for his family, for all of the time away, all of the weekends, holidays and "firsts" that he won't be there for, and then you tell me why you deserve to make less . . . .

Come to think of it, D'Angelo, you do deserve to make less. But the rest of us don't. So, do us a favor- go into middle management. You'll get a little raise, and you'll be surrounded by other people who think as you do. . . . and our profession will be a little better off for your departure.


.

 

[jbDC9]

Sorry I am unwilling to sacrifice my career so someone else can take my job.

Jesus tapdancing christ, you just get dumber with each post. Where do you think your job came from? A DL mainline pilot perhaps??

Shut your pie hole already you ignorant freakin' retard. Oh, and congrats on being the Village Idiot for Flightinfo.com.

 

[320AV8R]

Hey Frankie-

You seem to have a real good handle on the industry. Maybe you could enlighten us with more of your intelectual dribble..... it doesn't even boarder on interesting. Are you even connected with this industry?

The NWA pilots made a choice, that affects NWA pilots. Are you a NWA pilot?

You may be suffering from CRAFT, (Can't Remember A F%*in' Thing). A few years ago, thousands of LCC pilots were signing up to fly for wages & benefits that were drastically lower than Legacy pilots'. Fast forward to today, & the Legacy wages & benefits have come down to meet the LCCs. And you think it's the NWA pilot's fault? LOL.

I bet you blame the rooster for the sunrise, too.

I would like to be one of the first to congratulate the NWA pilots on a job well done. By lowering the bar to whore wages and signing off on outsourcing all of your DC-9 flying, you will now help collectively lower "industry standard." I always hate bargaining with a pilot group that is pointing to higher paid pilots at other carriers! I think I will start issuing contract openers by grouping NWA in with Mesa and Gulfstream.

I love this! God, I have to fly out to MSP and pop a few corks with Steenland. Maybe I can get Seigel and Wolf to come along. I can't wait to hear how Steenland is going to pocket the proceeds of this give-away!

Zippedy do-da, zippedy-ay, my oh my what a wonderful day!

Thanks again guys!

 

[TinGoose1]

320,

Did the LCC cause you NWA pukes to undercut the regional wages at Compass? You folks over at the redtail got so excited in the race to the bottom, you beat your regional feeds. You guys didn't do anything other than undercut yourselves. Now the rest of us won't just be competing with LCC's, we will be competing with the regionals. Have fun at the commuters.

-TG

 

[Lear70]

Village idiot indeed... have any of you considered that this guy is just stirring the pot to keep all of you pissed off and riled up? Just like Uppercrust and Einstein...

Capt Mark doesn't have anything to be ashamed of, his flight times were respectable when he got hired, he had the right connections, and will probably have one of the last "golden era" careers ever recorded (hired at 25 is pretty d*mn rare, gotta admit). Why does that make his debate points any less worthy of consideration?

What really interests me in this whole debate is that NO ONE has really bashed the Northwest pilots for lowering the bar like they have SO many times accused jetBlue of doing. Why is that?

Everyone talks as if the pay rates really aren't that bad, I beg to differ. You just signed for max rates on a 757 that are LOWER than what our 717 CA's make ??!! And you guys claim this as a "WIN" ??!! Why don't you pass some of that sh*t you're smoking, maybe I won't be as pi*sed.

Year AirTran Pay NWA Pay
6 $124 / hr $117 / hr (DC-9)
7 $127 / hr $119 / hr (DC-9)
8 $132 / hr $120 / hr (DC-9)
9 $137 / hr $134 / hr (A320)
10 $144 / hr $140 / hr (B757)
11 $147 / hr $141 / hr (B757)
12 $153 / hr $142 / hr (B757)

But maybe I shouldn't include the DC-9, most if not all of them will be replaced in the next 5-7 years by 90-seat RJ's anyway...

Incidentally, whoever said earlier in the thread something about "bringing back the RJ feed in-house", you're smoking crack. Pinnacle will still have a bunch of 50-seaters, management can still farm out a large percentage of the new 76-seaters to the regionals, and Compass will eventually be spun off for cash. Plain english: 80% or so of your regional feed will still be done out-of-house.

p.s. No way I'm taking that bet on their pensions. My bet is the announcement of the pension default happens right after the RFP announcement right about the beginning of the 4th quarter. You guys are CRAZY if you think you're keeping your pension...

It'll be interesting to see if the senior guys keep standing by their "WIN" claim once that happens... God am I glad I never got hired by a legacy carrier in the late 90's.

p.s.s. For those who think you can't start over at age 50, we had 4 guys over age 50 in our new-hire class at airTran, including 2 ex-DAL pilots, and my buddy who just finished new-hire class over at Netjets says there were several in his class, too. There ARE other options...

 

[D'Angelo]

Jesus tapdancing christ, you just get dumber with each post. Where do you think your job came from? A DL mainline pilot perhaps??

Shut your pie hole already you ignorant freakin' retard. Oh, and congrats on being the Village Idiot for Flightinfo.com.

Im no retard my friend. Your union MY MEC SPEAKS FOR ME clearly shows who the tard is. If you cant even speak for your self maybe you need to go back to special ed. I am able of thinking for myself thank you very much. Its unfortunate what has happened however the floodgates were opened 10 years ago. No one though things would be as out of control as they are today. Oh well it is what it is and im not falling on my sword so someone else can benefit while I sit on the street or start all over again. You can forget about it.

 

[D'Angelo]

It's not a career anymore. Due to attitudes like yours spread across the industry, this is just a job now. I think I've learned something...at XJ, my fight is with management. For my profession, my fight is with people like you.

I'm willing to "lose my job" and vote no at XJ. I don't want to contribute to this crap that's going on in the industry. Could I take a 20% pay cut and still make a living? Yes. As a college graduate with over 7000 hours, 10+ years in my profession, and 7 years of loyality to my company, do I deserve more than $45,000 a year? You're f*%king right I do!

But not you.

Your answer to everything is: the majority spoke. Ever think that the majority is wrong?

The market will set what you make sir. If you don't like the wages you have every right to leave for better destinations. You do not have the right however to drag everyone down with you and use union thug tactics to get your way. I will not jump off a cliff just so everyone can live it up. People would have been laughing their A$$es off had comair voted no. They would be livin it up on our sacrifice and wed be farting in the wind like a bunch of tards wondering what happened. The majority is what speaks in this buisness. You cant fault a guy for doin what hes gotta do to save and feed his family. Screaming HOLD THE LINE while the kids are in line at the soup kitchen does nobody 1 bit of good. You yourself admitted you can make a living. For now we all need to keep doing what we need to do to survive. Don't worry if the airlines are ever profitable again you can bet the unions will be trying to hold airlines hostage. Its kind of like ground hog day. Unfortunately the union never learns from their mistakes. The vocal minority always wants to tell you that you are wrong. NWA pilots are more than capable of deciding whats best for them thank you very much. "BUY THOSE MEN A BEER"
"FINALLY A PILOT GROUP WHO TRULY GETS IT"

 

[D'Angelo]

Very true. D'Angelo (Da Anglo) is a short-sighted moron. "Buy those guys at NWA a beer?" They don't want your beer, Danglo. To them, YOU stole THEIR job. Why do you think the most contentious issue in their fight was scope, not wages? You are not the solution, you are the problem.

Maybe you need to come up from your parent's basement and walk out into the daylight.

Price out a real house in any West Coast city (not a "starter house"), a private school for your kids, a condo or a nice boat, and a couple of vacations to internatational destinations a year, and college for your kids, or whatever you think an Airline Captain could expect to provide for his family, for all of the time away, all of the weekends, holidays and "firsts" that he won't be there for, and then you tell me why you deserve to make less . . . .

Come to think of it, D'Angelo, you do deserve to make less. But the rest of us don't. So, do us a favor- go into middle management. You'll get a little raise, and you'll be surrounded by other people who think as you do. . . . and our profession will be a little better off for your departure.


.

Short-sighted? You have got to be kidding me. How is saving my career and my lifestyle short-sighted. Being short sighted would be "taking one for the team" while they all sit on the sidlelines laughing at how stupid the pilot group is. This is the wrong environment to be doing things like that. Its time to hold on to what we can and worry about the rest later. I don't nessecarily say a person deserves more or less of a certain amount. I do say however that wages are set by the market. Obviously this is not the market to be demanding outlandish contracts. Part of the union problem is they were getting out of control during the glory years. They asked for way too much and now look at em. If they would have been more reasonable they wouldnt be taking such huge pay hits. Is live getting more expensive? Absolutely but just because we make the CHOICE to be away from home and we make the CHOICE to put up with all the requirements that come from being a pilot doesnt automatically mean we should be making outlandish wages. We can certainly live with less toys and more saving thats one thing I don't think anyone can argue with. Hopefully this will teach the unions a lesson. Meet in the middle and stop being so outrageous. They better learn from the past or they are doomed to repeat the cycle over and over.

 

[DTW320]

Everyone talks as if the pay rates really aren't that bad, I beg to differ. You just signed for max rates on a 757 that are LOWER than what our 717 CA's make ??!! And you guys claim this as a "WIN" ??!! Why don't you pass some of that sh*t you're smoking, maybe I won't be as pi*sed.

I disagree that everyone says the pay rates aren't that bad. In fact, who says that? I think the payrates suck, although at least on the 320 they are higher than UAL and US and include work rules, unlike UAL. You seem to ignore the fact that NWA is Bankrupt. If Airtran ever ends up CH11 your payrates WILL be lowered too. Hey, I voted no for a variety of reasons including payrates but the truth is that they are not significantly out of line with other BK airlines.

As for the pension, like you I would not take that bet either. BUT...I will say that if the legislation passes there is a reasonable chance that it will survive. The key is that NWA management wants it to survive for their own selfish reasons: If it terminates, the PBGC will take a significant stake of equity in the new stock when we emerge from BK which will seriously dilute the value of stock that the execs get. For once their blatant greed may be a good thing.

As for your DC-9 comments, here is a clip from our road show on the topic....not saying i buy it but here it is:

Q: If up to 90 76-seat jets are allowed under the TA, couldn’t NWA replace many of the DC-9s with 76-seaters?

A:There is no language in the TA that would specifically prohibit management from replacing DC9s with
76-seat jets. However:
• Replacement of 100 seat jets with 76-seat jets makes little sense from a revenue or unit cost
perspective;
• 36 of the 76-seat jets will replace the AVRO aircraft (until replaced, the AVROs count as 76-seat
aircraft);
• A minimum floor of narrowbody aircraft (DC-9, A-319/320, B757, 77-110 seat aircraft) is established on the earlier of the date the Company obtains 36 76-seat aircraft, or 1 year after bankruptcy. As long as this threshold is met, additional 51-76 seat aircraft can only be added to the 55 or 90 aircraft limit if an equal number of 77-110 seat aircraft are placed into service at the mainline. This provides a strong incentive for the Company to replace the DC-9s with 77-110- seat jets or A-319/320s in order to avoid the “peel back” provision of the narrowbody threshold;
• The agreement provides incentives for the Company to put new 77-110-seat jets into active service as soon as possible. Unless 77-110-seat aircraft are in active service at the mainline, the Company may not exceed the 76-seat jet cap and the SJ provisions of the Agreement cannot be changed in the next Section 6 negotiations without ALPA's approval;
• Management’s business plan calls for keeping most DC9s in service until they reach their cycle limits. Management has stated it does not intend to accelerate their retirement. ALPA’s analysis of the economics of the DC9 supports keeping it in the fleet. A significant spike in fuel prices could change that picture, however.

Remember: 76 seats or less = Compass. 77 seats and above = mainline.
Of the max 90 76 seaters, 36 are to replace the current Avros = net max increase of 54 76 seaters. Doesn't the DAL TA allow up to 200 70 seaters with some of the 200 being 76 seaters?

 

[doh]

It is in your best interests. Why should you be the one willing to take the fall for everyone else. Why should you have to start all over at crappy first year pay? ALPO has turned this game into every man for himself. They can't sign off on Mesa style contracts and then expect people not to respond. This is why arbitration is good. No more going on strike and going down in flames. You get a board of 3 people. One management chooses, one the pilots choose and one neutral party.

Where does this "neutral party" come from. If the government has any say in that individuals selection, then there is no neutrality!

The pilot group goes to work, they get input on everything from everyone. You do the best you can and you find out a fair wage that is right in the middle. Then the company does the same thing. No lawyers, no accountants no nothing. Just management people making accurate calculations. If they come in and lowball the arbitrators will look at all the evidence and decide not to entertain the companies offer if its too low. If the union offer is outrageous then it wouldnt be accepeted either. It would either encourage them to go back and negotiate or the deal that meets most in the middle wins. Its quite simple really.

It could be simple if you get government out of it. Let the contract expire. If the actual parties can't or won't come to an agreement, then let the market fill the void. I still can't figure out why you are so afraid of that.

This way you actually get realistic contracts. Its pointless to get a shoot for the moon contract when it only lasts a couple years then you go down in flames anyway because your no longer competitive. Its time to take control back of our lives and stop living the union drama scene. They are going to have to do a better job of finding middle ground and stop wasting time with outrageous proposals. There is already noise of arbitration in Washington. Lets hope they keep working toward it!

Again, you come back with a wish for more government involvement in the process. Government is good why? Have they solved the social security debacle? Medicare? Just what have they done that we should have any confidence in their ability to solve contract issues for us? I want government out of the process, period!

P.S. Sorry I did not respond sooner. I have been at the in laws, and my father in law is too cheap, so they have dial up!

 

[doh]

Hey good for you. Fractionals are a different world. You can still negoiate all that either without a union or using arbitration. The days of unions holding everyone hostage are slowly coming to an end.

There you go again with the arbitration. The only way you are going to force arbitration is through government interference in the process. Why do you want to involve the gov? Please explain that to me. Do you some how have a vested interest in larger more intrusive government?

 

[doh]

Oh i see. They are all out to get us arent we. Management is always watching waiting to fire anyone for sneezing wrong. Sounds a bit paranoid to me. Lets hear a story about someone getting fired because they smelled like alcohol and were not allowed to take a breathilizer to prove themselves. Again paranoid union they are all out to get you thinking. Tell me this why doesnt Jet Blue just fire everyone at a whim after 5 years. They are doing just fine without a union. Decertification is going slow but sure. Im just a line pilot sir never done FA training. You never answered my question about arbitration. why are you so scared of it. Youd rather stomp your feet like a baby and strike because you dont get what you want it sounds like. So lets hear it arbitration why dont you want it?

I got the answer! I am mortified of arbitration because the government will pick the "neutral party"! That means that we get stuck with the politics du jour flunky instead of settleing our contract with the people across the table. Let the market speak! If we fail to get an agreement, then we get a market solution to the problem! Why are you so afraid of freedom and free markets that you want the gov. involved?

 

[doh]

Im sure fed-ex was more than fair to their employees. The union mob mentality always gets people fired up for the wrong reasons. As always the truth lies in the middle. Again the RLA is more concerned with "the right to organize" than they are with the right to tell unions to get lost. unions are derived from pure anger. Senseless anger at that I might add. They are trying to convince you guys you must have a pay raise every new contract even though you enjoy golf when you want, have multiple houses and great retirement. Sorry you dont always have to keep "shooting for the moon". Duane just wants his money back since he lost some. No need to strike every time you dont get your way. That is reserved for toddlers. Stomping their feet just because things dont go their way. They always want someone to be their sheep to the slaughter. Tell em to get lost. Your MEC doesnt pee for you. You pee for yourself and speak for yourself as well!!

Fedex went union because management drove them to it. They wrecked the work life balance that people had and just started pushing the pilots as well as every one else. You should listen to yourself here. Didn't you say money isn't every thing? Well, management needs to start realizing that QOL means some thing. They need to stop taking all of the QOL out of this job and then we could maybe work some thing out.

 

[doh]

quit yer whining! It's called a democracy and the majority spoke plain and simple. I commend the NWA guys for having bal*s. Standing up for what they believe in, voting for it and saying screw what the vocal minority is screaming for us to do. Go cry to mommy now

It's not quite a democracy, but if we eliminate the RLA and allow contracts to expire, it could be! You could vote on management's proposal directly and go on strike directly and the majority would rule! And the market would rule! No government forced arbitration to take away our freedom!

 

[Ty Webb]

Short-sighted? You have got to be kidding me. How is saving my career and my lifestyle short-sighted. Being short sighted would be "taking one for the team" while they all sit on the sidlelines laughing at how stupid the pilot group is.

What "career" are you talking about- your wife's? Your mother's? What you have right now isn't a career. It's a McJob. You're just not wise enough yet to realize it, and you're foolish enough to advocate what is happening.

I do say however that wages are set by the market.

No, kid, wages are being set right now by Airline Management exploiting the current situation to shred contracts they signed only a few years back. We don't have a cost problem inthis industry, we have a revenue problem. Unfortunately, people like you can't seem to grasp that concept. Speaking of "grasp", maybe you should stop punishing the monkey long enough to sit down and contemplate how happy you are going to be flying around in a $20 million jet with a few bucks in your pocket, trying to decide how to make that last for the rest of the week.

Part of the union problem is they were getting out of control during the glory years. They asked for way too much and now look at em. If they would have been more reasonable they wouldnt be taking such huge pay hits.

This argument is what is known as a "false economy". Perhaps you should have gone to college . . . no guarantee, but maybe it would help you to see how stupid and foolish your posts really are.

Maybe if we all lived at home with our parents, but got to fly shiny jets for our spending money, like an airborn paper route, maybe we'd be as cool as you .

 

[320AV8R]

TG-

If you don't work here, you don't have to worry about it.

Negotiate yourself a 50% pay raise & you'll be happier.

320,

Did the LCC cause you NWA pukes to undercut the regional wages at Compass? You folks over at the redtail got so excited in the race to the bottom, you beat your regional feeds. You guys didn't do anything other than undercut yourselves. Now the rest of us won't just be competing with LCC's, we will be competing with the regionals. Have fun at the commuters.

-TG

 

[CaptainMark]

I think we all now realize what i have been saying all along...D'angelo is a complete idiot..

 

[pilotyip]

Again I would expect that from Capt. Mark, this is a pilot board and it does not deal with reality. When someone states the obvious that reflects reality of the real world, not some fantasy vision we would all love to see, he is immediately beat up. It is an extension of the old shoot the messenger theme. Keep up the good work D'a. Capt Mark go back to programming your Airbus, or do you have the F/O do that?

 

[CaptainMark]

Again I would expect that from Capt. Mark, this is a pilot board and it does not deal with reality. When someone states the obvious that reflects reality of the real world, not some fantasy vision we would all love to see, he is immediately beat up. It is an extension of the old shoot the messenger theme. Keep up the good work D'a. Capt Mark go back to programming your Airbus, or do you have the F/O do that?

Standards require i program it...and i believe you and your boy d'angelo are the ones in fantasyland...look at Ty's reply and if you can comprehend it that you would see that d'angelo and his attitude are just what we don't need around this industry...have u read anything or anyone who agrees with him????????...now you go back to unloading your dme/equipped only falcon...

 

[Ty Webb]

When someone states the obvious that reflects reality of the real world, not some fantasy vision we would all love to see, he is immediately beat up. It is an extension of the old shoot the messenger theme. Keep up the good work D'a.

Sorry, Yip, but you are a victim of your own low expectations. You thought you deserved less, and so you got what you deserved . . . Living on a 20 minute call-out to fly ancient junk to Chihauhau, when most of the guys you trained have moved on and moved up long ago . . . not surprising you come off like a dog that's been kicked a time or two too many.

Do us a favor, and try to refrain from poisoning the new guys with your low expectations, it hasn't worked for you, and it won't work for them, either.

 

[pilotyip]

What is reality?

Hey Ty I thought you were giving a dose of reality "wages are being set right now by Airline Management exploiting the current situation to shred contracts they signed only a few years back. We don't have a cost problem in this industry, we have a revenue problem". That is reality. Is there a solution for unprofitable or marginally profitable companies like yours to increase revenue and not threaten jobs? No one seems to have the answer. As far as my low expectations, who are you to determine what my expectations are. I am still living my dream, I wanted to be a Navy pilot, land on aircraft carriers and fly airplanes until I died. If I could to do that, every thing else would be gravy. I fly some of neatest airplanes in the world B-17, C-47, B-25 if I want. I wouldn't trade that for your job, and I have never had a salary above $100K in my life. I do just fine and my QOL is exactly what I want it to be. How unhappy are you Ty, you seen to want something better than you have, but then again who am I to judge anyone?

 

[Ty Webb]

That is reality. Is there a solution for unprofitable or marginally profitable companies like yours to increase revenue and not threaten jobs?

.

We're hiring approximately 300 pilots this year, and we will continue to be profitable while doing so. We would be even more profitable if the execs could stop rewarding themselves so handsomely, but that is the subject for another thread.

far as my low expectations, who are you to determine what my expectations are. . . . . . . I wouldn't trade that for your job, and I have never had a salary above $100K in my life. I do just fine and my QOL is exactly what I want it to be.

This string dealt with compensation and QOL, and your posts indicate that you have little of either, still, you felt compelled to trot out your tired old mantra that we should all lower our expectations and thus be happier.

I, for one, am tired of hearing you proclaim that $100K is enough for you. It might be for me, too, if my life revolved only around flying other people's airplanes, and I had no aspirations of living a normal life . . . . . If living in a cardboard box on a 20 minute call-out to make peanuts is what you aspire to, well, congratulations, glad it works for you . . . . Silly me, I would like to be able to live well and enjoy some of the finer things in life.

How unhappy are you Ty, you seen to want something better than you have, but then again who am I to judge anyone?

Ahhh, the Human Condition . . . . wanting something better than your current situation. Apparently, you are not afflicted with this condition, but most of us are, so kindly stop telling the rest of us that we want too much, because it doesn't jibe with your oddball point-of-reference that sub-par wages are acceptable "because I get to fly airplanes and no one's shooting at me".uke:

. . . . . . . . .Rant Out