NWA Super Premium Wide Body Boondoggle - if 65 Wasn't Bad Enough...

[Fly4hire]

There is an old NWA resolution being carried forward to the new DAL MEC over allowing age 60 plus pilots to fly part time while drawing retirement benefits.

The resolution is well meaning and well articulated, however only addresses the upside while conveniently side stepping unintended negative consequences.

The short version is to allow pilots to retire early (post 60, but prior to 65) and draw full retirement benefits while flying a partial schedule. The gist of the rationale is that it would allow pilots to leave early and for every two pilots who fly part time free up a position to be filled by a junior pilot.

What it does not address is that pilots can already retire at 60 without penalty (and allow 1:1 progression), and the danger is that it might provide incentive for pilots to remain to 65 when they might otherwise fully retire earlier. Given the stats to date on FN retirements this might well SLOW retirements and career progression.

What a good gig - retire, fly one choice senior trip a month to your favorite foreign destination, and con the junior pilots into thinking it's helping them!

OBTW, this resolution does not address part time flying with full benefits for those under 60 who might like to fly a partial schedule.

I urge all junior DAL pilots to contact their Reps to ensure this one dies a swift legislative death at the next MEC meeting

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They more than likely do not want it to die. It saves them the cost of training a ton of new pilots et al.

I am guessing that since these guys are part time, they do not get your active employee health care as well.

 

[Fly4hire]

They more than likely do not want it to die. It saves them the cost of training a ton of new pilots et al.

I am guessing that since these guys are part time, they do not get your active employee health care as well.

Who is they? Management? Are you willing to stagnate your career further to save the company training costs? Age 70 would help as well....

This an MEC/PWA issue to allow or not.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am not willing to do anything.
I have made my issue with this known when it was passed on your side. We tried this before at DAL, but it did not work out that well or for two long.

They retired, they need to go. I can just see the company really be rooting for this one. It is a huge cost savings to them, and hence was the point of my previous post.

They is management. I am sure that there are some that think we can gain something by allowing this. The only thing it allows is slower attrition.
I know what it is and who has a say, but with the PWA, the company has a stake in it too.

 

[ASA_DFW]

When Delta hired again in 07-08, we allowed retired guys to come back and interview BUT they had to start at the bottom of the list.

I don't think they should be able to fly part time. They would be able to fly the best trips whenever they wanted. You are either retired or you are not. You cannot collect a pension and fly whenever you wanted to. It is pretty much double-dipping and even state employees in NY are not allowed to do that.

I think the new MEC will be smart enough to deny them this resolution.

 

[~~~^~~~]

We don't need this right now.

 

[Linedriver]

May want to consider the possibility that if this is pushed to be eliminated, some of those pilots that would have retired and returned to partial lines may not retire at all, thus eliminating that upward slot altogether. Afterall, they will be senior and can drop the choice trips and maintain ALL of their full time priveleges.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree, you cannot have your cake and eat it to. Having the benefits of your retirement and the benefits of your seniority is just not right.

 

[hockeypilot44]

May want to consider the possibility that if this is pushed to be eliminated, some of those pilots that would have retired and returned to partial lines may not retire at all, thus eliminating that upward slot altogether. Afterall, they will be senior and can drop the choice trips and maintain ALL of their full time priveleges.

That is their choice. Right now we have a solid line between retired and active. Let's keep it that way. There is no reason to complicate things more. I am a firm believer in keeping things simple.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

We don't need this right now.

It was smart to edit the origional post.

 

[~~~^~~~]

It was a joke. You have to admit, that'd kill it.

It always cracks me up when resolutions get so completely amended on the floor that the author is just going nuts with "but, tha, no, ..."

 

[Scope out RJ's]

It was a joke. You have to admit, that'd kill it.

It always cracks me up when resolutions get so completely amended on the floor that the author is just going nuts with "but, tha, no, ..."

I understood the joke, and thought it was funny too. Just not necessary to feed the trolls when we don't have to!

 

[asaflyer]

Just wondering, but what keeps the senior guys from only flying a couple of trips a month now. Do they have to have a min. block per month. I think here at AT you can drop all your block you just won't get paid and may have to pay extra to cover health costs if you don't fly enough to pay for it. Also, are you guys still restricted on the # of hours you can get paid for per month?

 

[Hamburger]

I think the new MEC will be smart enough to deny them this resolution.

I'd warn against thinking any MEC is smart enough to read your mind on any particular resolution. Go to the meeting or at the least contact your rep an let them know your concerns.
A panel of 55+ year old guys may think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

If the golden oldie NWA guys are using this to double dip because of their A fund, what would be in it for the DAL guys?

I don't see how any Delta guy would benefit from this. They want these guys gone as much as the rest of us.

I hope this gets laughed out of the new DAL MEC.

Nu

 

[ASA_DFW]

The computer will assign you trips based on your seniority and preferences. We have an ALV (average line value) for each aircraft every month. The ALV will vary according to the number of block hours and number of qualified pilots in that category. On the MD-88 B ATL the ALV is 82-89 for the month of February. Your line value will be between those numbers.

Senior guys on the 777 might have a lower line value. To drop a trip, somebody must pick it up of it can be dropped if there is coverage.

I do not want the senior guys to have the option to get a full pension and only fly when they want to. It is not fair to the Delta guys who lost their pension and now have to fly until 65 to make up lost money.

I do not buy the arguement that the NWA guys will only fly part-time and everybody will move up a little. There is too much money at stake. The company may not want it because it costs too much to pay two guys to one person's job. I do not think that the MEC will vote on the proposal. If they let the senior guys fly part-time why can't I fly part time? It must be fair and representive to all.

 

[ASA_DFW]

I'd warn against thinking any MEC is smart enough to read your mind on any particular resolution. Go to the meeting or at the least contact your rep an let them know your concerns.
A panel of 55+ year old guys may think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I have faith in my MEC. They think in the long term and not just for one group of pilots. My voice and reasoning will be know and I will listening to what the MEC has to say about the issue.

At Northwest, was the MEC a certain group of pilots who only looked out for themselves? Not to flame, just curious.

 

[Fly4hire]

At Northwest, was the MEC a certain group of pilots who only looked out for themselves? Not to flame, just curious.

In a nutshell yes. There was a 51/49 split between the forces of good and the forces of darkness. Our former MEC CH was the head of the Medusa. Many, many FN pilots are very grateful to be under a new MEC.

 

[FBN0223]

In a nutshell yes. There was a 51/49 split between the forces of good and the forces of darkness. Our former MEC CH was the head of the Medusa. Many, many FN pilots are very grateful to be under a new MEC.

Let us not forget how those forces of darkness at NWALPA created fear, then wrap it up that fear into a contract that took care of the senior pilots and gave the junior pilot's flying away to Compass Airlines.

Not until the FAs voted down their conciliatory contract did the NW pilots realize that NWALPA had led them astray and they had been duped by Steenland and crew.

The 600 million that the pilots negotiated away from themselves was then was distributed amongst upper management and what was left was used to create Compass Airlines. A "slap in the face" flow-down was put in place so that in the event of tough times, junior NWA pilots could slide down and reclaim their flying but at bargain basement prices that gave no credit for longevity.

Sorry for the quick history lesson but when things go wrong they really go wrong. Hopefully, with the new DALPA, we will use common sense and not let fear and greed divide the group. No more giving away flying off the bottom or off the top. If you want to fly part-time after 60, go buy a super cub.

 

[clippyrip]

golden oldie NWA guys are using this to double dip because of their A fund

These are the same guys that are sitting on 10K+ a month pensions. It's time for them to move on so the rest of us can try and eek out a living.