NWA reports it, so it must be true

[DTW320]

Second, if management tries to force a merger without the pilots' consent, the Delta pilots will support their MEC. Delta has a Strike Preparedness Committee which is also funded, prepared and spun up. Just as prepared as the Merger Committee.

So let me get this straight Fins...are you saying that IF management(s) decide to go through with a merger anyway, despite the pilot's opposition, that DALPA will consider a Strike??? You do know what the RLA has to say about such a thing don't you? You do know that DALPA has never struck even within the legal bounds spelled out in the RLA right? (and I'm not saying that they ever should have or had a reason to, so don't go down that road). You do know what RLA stands for right?

 

[~~~^~~~]

The SPC is the tactical arm of the MEC. It is prepared should its use be needed. It was spun up and funded.

Do you think management put 2 Bn USD on the table because they thought it would be a pleasant gift for the pilots?

All these decisions are made way beyond my pay grade and are not likely to be an issue. But, I have my comfortable shoes shined and a second job lined up in the event that it is necessary. New hires at either airline would be smart to be similarly prepared anyway.

If you are not thinking three or four moves ahead in this game, you are behind. When you bring a position to the table, you have to be ready to execute.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Keep believing whatever they tell you. They really like it when you do that....

I read the transcripts pretty closely and never read such a statement from Bastian. Anderson said he was not brought on board to facilitate a merger with NWA, but never said it would not happen.

If you have a quote, post it, we fellow flightinfo readers would like to see it.

 

[DTW320]

I read the transcripts pretty closely and never read such a statement from Bastian. Anderson said he was not brought on board to facilitate a merger with NWA, but never said it would not happen.

If you have a quote, post it, we fellow flightinfo readers would like to see it.

I don't read DAL transcripts....I was just assuming that your fellow Delta Buds knew what they were talking about when they said it here. (read FDJ2's post.....skipover Robert E Lee's excrement)

As for your SPC comments, I couldn't make much sense of your reply and it really didn't answer my question to you. Again, are you aware of the circumstances, under the RLA, that allow a strike? I sure am (think Fall 1998) and, while I wish it were otherwise (no fan of the RLA) the unfortunate reality is that being unhappy with your managements merger plans is not one of the criteria that makes a work stoppage legal in this industry. Or even a sickout (ask an APA member).

 

[~~~^~~~]

DTW,

Well it has been more than 6 months.... I do not see anything that suggests Ed Bastian is, or was, less than candid. The merger forces were applied externally by hedge fund managers who unfortunately own significant portions of both of our airlines and who want a quick and easy buck. Hopefully some bailed at $17 a share.

As far as I know, there is nothing being forced on us and nothing to resist. It is entirely premature to debate self help options. You used the word "strike," not I. Besides, a spun up SPC has other functions.

DALPA 2, infidels 0. You think that was a happy accident?

 

[PuffDriver]

I don't read DAL transcripts....I was just assuming that your fellow Delta Buds knew what they were talking about when they said it here. (read FDJ2's post.....skipover Robert E Lee's excrement)

As for your SPC comments, I couldn't make much sense of your reply and it really didn't answer my question to you. Again, are you aware of the circumstances, under the RLA, that allow a strike? I sure am (think Fall 1998) and, while I wish it were otherwise (no fan of the RLA) the unfortunate reality is that being unhappy with your managements merger plans is not one of the criteria that makes a work stoppage legal in this industry. Or even a sickout (ask an APA member).

Nonetheless,

There are many options at the disposal of the Delta MEC, which were also used to fend off the USAir hostile takeover as well as in BK to preserve the contract drastically more than Delta wanted. Informational picketing as use of the press were just two of the items. There was even a time that the SPC had the pilots clear out their lockers at their bases. Illegal or not, the Delta pilots have always carried a big stick under the leadership of our current administration, and the proof is that other MECs have started to utilize the same tactics.

 

[DTW320]

DALPA 2, infidels 0. You think that was a happy accident?

Wow....that's some STRONG Koolaid they're mixing over on Sullivan Rd these days.

PS. Actually you did use the word Strike and talked about comfortable shoes and second jobs, but what do I know.....I'm just an "infidel"

 

[~~~^~~~]

DTW:

I used the word "strike" as part of a name of a standing committee. If I wrote "Hotel Committee" would you assume we are buying Hilton? I've walked in circles on occassions which were not strikes.

You an infidel? Only if you choose to be. NWA pilots did not come seeking the merger, hedge fund managers did.

Any junior pilot at either airline would be smart to have their contingency plans lined up if a NWA merger happens. Hopefully your scope will protect you from my worst fears about the DC9 fleet, but, neither of us has seen the scope language of the combined airline and DAL clearly has excess RJ capacity which is more ASM efficient than your DC9's (and the large RJ's beat our MD88's too).

Others have noticed too. Part of this deal was rumored to be the sale of Comair with an additional RJ flying award.

If your Reps will show you, ask to see ALPA's EF&A analysis. Ignore the rhetoric and look at the ASM costs. After you read the numbers you might come to agree with me that:
1. Fuel prices are not going to fix the scope problem
2. The death of the RJ has been exaggerated
3. Delta would use their excess RJ capacity that they are contractually bound to pay for to backfill DC9's very quickly.
4. We really do not know how differences in Delta and NWA's scope agreements were going to be resolved.

I do trust hard numbers. I do not have much faith in "no furlough" clauses. The coolaid is good around here, but not nearly good enough to let other employment options slip away.

 

[airlinepilot]

What does the MEC say regarding if the merger will go ahead without SLI

 

[Redmeat]

The SPC is the tactical arm of the MEC. It is prepared should its use be needed. It was spun up and funded.

Do you think management put 2 Bn USD on the table because they thought it would be a pleasant gift for the pilots?

All these decisions are made way beyond my pay grade and are not likely to be an issue. But, I have my comfortable shoes shined and a second job lined up in the event that it is necessary. New hires at either airline would be smart to be similarly prepared anyway.

If you are not thinking three or four moves ahead in this game, you are behind. When you bring a position to the table, you have to be ready to execute.

If you want to see Delta disappear quicker than a fart in the wind...go on strike while the industry is entering a DEEP recession.

 

[Redmeat]

What does the MEC say regarding if the merger will go ahead without SLI

"Get the lube, cause we're idiots"

?

 

[DTW320]

If your Reps will show you, ask to see ALPA's EF&A analysis. Ignore the rhetoric and look at the ASM costs. After you read the numbers you might come to agree with me that:
1. Fuel prices are not going to fix the scope problem
2. The death of the RJ has been exaggerated
3. Delta would use their excess RJ capacity that they are contractually bound to pay for to backfill DC9's very quickly.
4. We really do not know how differences in Delta and NWA's scope agreements were going to be resolved.

I personally have a copy of the E&FA analysis(you mean DALPA didn't give you guys one? Hmmmmmm.....) and didn't notice any rhetoric in it. You have made one of my points perfectly. DALPA's scope clause is much worse than NWA's (Here's where you should ignore the rhetoric....the rhetoric from deltoids here about how vastly superior DAL's contract is). See why NWAALPA may have been more concerned about SLI than the retractable goodies on the table? See why we laugh so hard when you guys go right back to: "but, but, you guys would have gained so much by our contract"

 

[EdTeachLives!]

I personally have a copy of the E&FA analysis(you mean DALPA didn't give you guys one? Hmmmmmm.....) and didn't notice any rhetoric in it. You have made one of my points perfectly. DALPA's scope clause is much worse than NWA's (Here's where you should ignore the rhetoric....the rhetoric from deltoids here about how vastly superior DAL's contract is). See why NWAALPA may have been more concerned about SLI than the retractable goodies on the table? See why we laugh so hard when you guys go right back to: "but, but, you guys would have gained so much by our contract"

The nwalpa EFA document had plenty of inaccurate statements and facts within it. So, if the shoe fits...wear it.

This deal is 99% dead. It alledgedly came down to possibly one disfunctional ex republic guy in your MEC or committee structure,

The integration deal frame work for the pilots no longer remains in its original form so even if it were to be revived, it would be far less palatable for those involved.

Quite frankly, it would be ironic if DAL moved on and purchased ALK thus taking away NWA's west coast feed. Asian expansion could then be added comensurate to economic conditions and demand with out NWA utilizing point to point vs. the Narita hub.

This is/was part of the package of options DAL is/was exploring.

And this all over dysfunction inherited over 26 years ago.

Ed

 

[DTW320]

The nwalpa EFA document had plenty of inaccurate statements and facts within it. So, if the shoe fits...wear it. How 'bout an example Ed. As for the shoes, I'm not the one that said I had comfy ones ready to walk circles (although, unlike Fins, I have)

This deal is 99% dead. It alledgedly came down to possibly one disfunctional ex republic guy in your MEC or committee structure, emphasis on the word "allegedly".

The integration deal frame work for the pilots no longer remains in its original form so even if it were to be revived, it would be far less palatable for those involved.

Quite frankly, it would be ironic if DAL moved on and purchased ALK thus taking away NWA's west coast feed. Asian expansion could then be added comensurate to economic conditions and demand with out NWA utilizing point to point vs. the Narita hub. Good Luck with that.....what with all the Asian route authority that ALK has.

This is/was part of the package of options DAL is/was exploring.

And this all over dysfunction inherited over 26 years ago. Ya got me there teach....what happened around 1982?

Ed

Happy Easter

 

[~~~^~~~]

If you want to see Delta disappear quicker than a fart in the wind...go on strike while the industry is entering a DEEP recession.

I used the word "strike" as part of a name of a standing committee.

Reading comprehension requires the reading part.

 

[DTW320]

Reading comprehension requires the reading part.

Maybe you should elaborate on what else a STRIKE Preparedness Committee Prepares for. And if you say informational picketing then please explain why you need a second job lined up for that scenario. Thanks.

Strike preparedness requires the strike part.

 

[NuGuy]

Maybe you should elaborate on what else a STRIKE Preparedness Committee Prepares for. And if you say informational picketing then please explain why you need a second job lined up for that scenario. Thanks.

Strike preparedness requires the strike part.

Heyas,

Has DAL (real DAL, that is) ever struck?

I would question if they would strike even in a valid section 6 release/major dispute scenario, let alone something that is not considered a "legal work action".

Nu

 

[Fly4hire]

Heyas,

Has DAL (real DAL, that is) ever struck?

I would question if they would strike even in a valid section 6 release/major dispute scenario, let alone something that is not considered a "legal work action".

Nu

C'mon now. The CMR pilots went on strike and they are part of the DAL family.

 

[DTW320]

Heyas,

Has DAL (real DAL, that is) ever struck?

I would question if they would strike even in a valid section 6 release/major dispute scenario, let alone something that is not considered a "legal work action".

Nu

Nope. But Fins is ready to go man! Heck, he's even written a resignation letter. Dick Anderson is quaking in his new corner office I'm sure. He's never dealt with a p/o'd pilot group before

 

[General Lee]

Heyas,

Has DAL (real DAL, that is) ever struck?

I would question if they would strike even in a valid section 6 release/major dispute scenario, let alone something that is not considered a "legal work action".

Nu

We threatened to strike during the Summer of 01, but incoming President Bush said "there will be NO major airlines striking this Summer." We still got our large raises before that time. Comair did succeed in striking, and that action cost Delta $1 billion.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[400ADude]

We threatened to strike during the Summer of 01, but incoming President Bush said "there will be NO major airlines striking this Summer." We still got our large raises before that time. Comair did succeed in striking, and that action cost Delta $1 billion.


Bye Bye--General Lee

What was the end result of the large raises?

 

[EdTeachLives!]

OK DTW...

About the NWA EFA doc. It made its rounds in cyberspace where most who are intimately familiar with DAL read it and recognized the errors. It is amazing that both airlines have the same national union representing the pilots....yet they could not even get the number of active pilots correct for instance. That just starters.

Dysfunction 26 years ago.... That was roughly the time Steve Wolf showed up at Republic. Republic sold out to NWA in 1986. That is when things really got dysfunctional. Besides bringing the current red/blue/green book divisions that obviously last to this day....Republic brought a fleet of old aircraft to NWA. 15 Convair 530's and approx 128 DC-9's.

At least people are not arguing about parking Convairs as NWA promptly did just that. However most of those DC-9's that Republic inherited from Hughes Air West and Southern are still flying today!

Tell everyone...with oil at 103.00 and crack spread climbing...how long do you think they'll last at NWA, or, how about DAL? Or, any airline that would merge with NWA. And while you are at it .....if they are parked and NWA merges with some other airline, which pilot group should shoulder the bulk of job cuts associated with putting those 9's in the desert?

Finally, about the feed. Here is an easy explanation. What about ALL of the west coast feed ALK gives NWA for their Asian departures out of the west coast cities. What happens to NWA when the feed disappears over night if ALK is purchased or merges with someone else? Big, big dent.

Also a very viable plan for DAL ....or AA..etc.

Ed

 

[737 Pylt]

Ed:
Shhhhhhh.......Don't confuse dtw320 with facts, it only throws his spin machine on its axis and ruins his argument. Then, besides being clueless, he's arrogant, not a good combo!

737

 

[737 Pylt]

What was the end result of the large raises?

Pay cuts that still resulted in better compensation than every other legacy carrier that went through the process.
Isn't it time now to head over to the Air Tran thread and throw some more mud around?
How's things at Midwest Express troll, or is it Skyway? You update your resume yet?

737

 

[NuGuy]

We threatened to strike during the Summer of 01,

Um, I'll put that down as a "NO".

And I don't see that Comair shares your certificate, contract or MEC, so they don't count.

Nu

 

[DTW320]

Ed:
Shhhhhhh.......Don't confuse dtw320 with facts, it only throws his spin machine on its axis and ruins his argument. Then, besides being clueless, he's arrogant, not a good combo!

737

What I should have posted on that other thread:
DELTA. Doing Everything Like Total A@#holes

 

[DTW320]

OK DTW...

About the NWA EFA doc. It made its rounds in cyberspace where most who are intimately familiar with DAL read it and recognized the errors. It is amazing that both airlines have the same national union representing the pilots....yet they could not even get the number of active pilots correct for instance. That just starters. It was all done on 3Q07 numbers. How off were the financials?

Dysfunction 26 years ago.... That was roughly the time Steve Wolf showed up at Republic. Republic sold out to NWA in 1986.Wolf joined Republic in February 1984....but I acknowledge your point. That is when things really got dysfunctional. Besides bringing the current red/blue/green book divisions that obviously last to this day....Republic brought a fleet of old aircraft to NWA. 15 Convair 530's and approx 128 DC-9's. They were Convair 580's and there were 13 + 128 DC9's + 15 727's + 8 MD80's + 6 757's

At least people are not arguing about parking Convairs as NWA promptly did just that.By late 1988. However most of those DC-9's that Republic inherited from Hughes Air West and Southern are still flying today! Republic brought 35 DC9-10's. They are gone. 65 DC9-30's. Will be down to 22 I believe later this year. 28 DC9-50's. All still flying. So 50 still flying out of 128. 39% = Most???

Tell everyone...with oil at 103.00 and crack spread climbing...how long do you think they'll last at NWA, or, how about DAL? Or, any airline that would merge with NWA. And while you are at it .....if they are parked and NWA merges with some other airline, which pilot group should shoulder the bulk of job cuts associated with putting those 9's in the desert? They will last a lot longer at NWA than DAL due to your scope clause. So if it's your scope that allows them to be replaced by RJ's you tell me who should "shoulder the cuts". I admit NWA can also park them but the ASM's can't be replaced with RJ's due to our scope. If NWA downsizes by eliminating those ASM's then we will lose jobs. At a merged DAL they could replace the ASM's without shrinking the airline. That's our fault?

Finally, about the feed. Here is an easy explanation. What about ALL of the west coast feed ALK gives NWA for their Asian departures out of the west coast cities. What happens to NWA when the feed disappears over night if ALK is purchased or merges with someone else? Big, big dent.

Also a very viable plan for DAL ....or AA..etc.What are you guys gonna do with all the ALK pax? Fly them to Narita, and as Occam says, have them rappel to the ramp? You think RA would go with that plan vs existing code-share Skyteam issues already in place with NWA?

Ed

Take Care. And 737 Pylt.....I'll put my facts up against the tripe you post here any day. Jetstream's Rule Dude!

 

[~~~^~~~]

What I should have posted on that other thread:
DELTA. Doing Everything Like Total A@#holes

DTW,

It is not happening. You will not have to fly with us. Just let it go. Get outside and enjoy the nice weather.

 

[DTW320]

DTW,

It is not happening. You will not have to fly with us. Just let it go. Get outside and enjoy the nice weather.

Oh, didn't you hear Fins? NWA folks are always in dark, cold, frozen parts of the world. We don't go outside cause the wx's always lousy. If only I could get to Rio......

 

[737 Pylt]

What I should have posted on that other thread:
DELTA. Doing Everything Like Total A@#holes

Clever....See what a community college education does for you.
I guess you'd know, since you guys have been doing it like A$$oles for 22 years dude! After all you guys wrote the book (you know, red, green, blue)!
I Can't wait for this junior prick to be swinging gear for me!

Take Care. And 737 Pylt.....I'll put my facts up against the tripe you post here any day. Jetstream's Rule Dude!

I know, its like a DC 9 only with props. Actually, its better, and more reliable than a DC 9 !
737