NWA Position Update

[JAM-BRO]

Hi Guys,

An update as far as the thread topic is concerned:

The age 65 thing has reared its ugly head at NWA.

You can usually tell how well the planning is going at NWA by the timing of the position awards every month.

IF they know what they're doing and where the airline is going, the awards are early, say around the 17th or 18th.

If they don't, it's usually published on the contractual date (the 20th). If they REALLY don't know, then it's to the hour the contract requires.

Anyway, this month's award was published at the very last minute, and was 1/2 the size of the last two, and 1/3 the size of the 4 month average. There was VERY little movement, and almost no captain awards.

I'd say that movement has come to a screeching halt. There were no displacements on this award, but withthe ROPES coming back, that can only be around the corner once they figure out who is doing what.

You should factor this into any decisions that you make.

Nu

The award was not that small... About 19 CAs and a lot of FO awards. Correct me if I am wrong, but the ropes will not cause any displacements. If the position they are bidding is not available, they wait till the following month. You can have Whale CA on your card, but if it is not available(opening and seniority), u don't get it.
I am sure that they were blind sided with Age 65 up in the 3rd floor. But you and I know that the top 1000 guys are close to full pension. They will work for pennies if they stay. They will stay till 60 for the lump sum and go. Approx 250 rets/yr. 4 yrs of normal retirements. Pretty minimal effect.
Again dude, why the negative crap!!!!

 

[123]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the ropes will not cause any displacements. !!!!

I think the jury is still out on this. Word I got from one of my reps is that it hasn't been determined how they are treated (i.e. displaced from their CA spot or not). Either way, we aren't talking a HUGE number of people.

Again dude, why the negative crap!!!!

Agreed, why such negativity. As you said, the award wasn't that small. 50 plus movements and they were all upward. It was about half the size of last months APA, but it was still a fair amount awards and forward movement. Life is good, now, if only I knew what to bid next (320 or 757). Decisions, decisions....

 

[NuGuy]

Again dude, why the negative crap!!!!

Dude, how long have you been at NWA?

I was being positive. This is as positive as it gets at NWA....

Nu

 

[FmrFreightDog]

....already stirring it up at your new gig.....:beer:

Nah, I think my "stirring it up" days are over. Just haven't been here long enough to understand much about how things work around here. Finally, for once, I got the chance to ask a legitimate question on this board with no hint of sarcasm whatsoever. Will wonders never cease?!?

Merry Christmas

 

[ThisistheDream]

The award was not that small... About 19 CAs and a lot of FO awards. Correct me if I am wrong, but the ropes will not cause any displacements. If the position they are bidding is not available, they wait till the following month. You can have Whale CA on your card, but if it is not available(opening and seniority), u don't get it.
I am sure that they were blind sided with Age 65 up in the 3rd floor. But you and I know that the top 1000 guys are close to full pension. They will work for pennies if they stay. They will stay till 60 for the lump sum and go. Approx 250 rets/yr. 4 yrs of normal retirements. Pretty minimal effect.
Again dude, why the negative crap!!!!

Would there be any penalty for the top 1000 guys who's pension is still almost full, if they retire early now at 60 vs. 65? Can the company find a loop hole that says they have to fly until 65 to get the full pension now that the FAA legal retirement age is now 65 or allows the company to not pay out a full pension until you reach 65?

 

[JAM-BRO]

Dude, how long have you been at NWA?

I was being positive. This is as positive as it gets at NWA....

Nu

Dude

Long enough to know, not to let it get to me. I do my trips and try to have as much fun as I can... Do you remember how to do that?

Later

 

[nwaredtail]

Use some logical math on age 65:

No movement on APA due to age 65 BECAUSE, the law changed after the December 5th close date.

Before age 65, there were 190 ish planned retirements. Now, the plan is to park AT LEAST 30 DC-9's in 2008 with no new airplanes coming. 30 times 12 pilots per airframe = 360 less positions. Before, retirements would have kept up with the displacements caused by parking these planes.

I think at least 50% will stay past 60, so IMO, hiring will stop soon and there will be displacements of the DC-9 capt by summer. Especially with 50 plus RJ's coming.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Use some logical math on age 65:

No movement on APA due to age 65 BECAUSE, the law changed after the December 5th close date.

Before age 65, there were 190 ish planned retirements. Now, the plan is to park AT LEAST 30 DC-9's in 2008 with no new airplanes coming. 30 times 12 pilots per airframe = 360 less positions. Before, retirements would have kept up with the displacements caused by parking these planes.

I think at least 50% will stay past 60, so IMO, hiring will stop soon and there will be displacements of the DC-9 capt by summer. Especially with 50 plus RJ's coming.

Again, that's what YOU think...Do some logical thinking here. Tell me WHY 50% of those retirees would want to stick around and fly all night to Narita? They can sit in their lazy boy at home and get payed the same. I don't think there is gonna be any displacements.

Later

 

[propdog]

Now, the plan is to park AT LEAST 30 DC-9's in 2008 with no new airplanes coming. 30 times 12 pilots per airframe = 360 less positions. Before, retirements would have kept up with the displacements caused by parking these planes.

I think at least 50% will stay past 60, so IMO, hiring will stop soon and there will be displacements of the DC-9 capt by summer. Especially with 50 plus RJ's coming.

Is that fact or guess work?? How can an additional of 50+ RJs come into property? I believe 18 more RJs is all they can bring in under current scope clauses.

 

[nwaredtail]

Is that fact or guess work?? How can an additional of 50+ RJs come into property? I believe 18 more RJs is all they can bring in under current scope clauses.

The rj's aren't on property yet

 

[nwaredtail]

Again, that's what YOU think...Do some logical thinking here. Tell me WHY 50% of those retirees would want to stick around and fly all night to Narita? They can sit in their lazy boy at home and get payed the same. I don't think there is gonna be any displacements.

Later

Most have pensions in the 10-12k range per month. They make 13-14k per month working. Believe me, it's enough to have them stick around. I have asked 13 "older" pilots if they will stay, and 9 said yes.

 

[propdog]

The rj's aren't on property yet

Makes sense...thanks.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Dude, how long have you been at NWA?

About 20 years. You?

I was being positive. This is as positive as it gets at NWA....

Ouch!

Attention noobs! Mr. Glass-Half-Empty is a good guy...he's just cranky right now. Wait 'til Mr. Glass-Half-Full buys him lunch at NATCO next month. Everybody feels better after a free lunch!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Most have pensions in the 10-12k range per month. They make 13-14k per month working. Believe me, it's enough to have them stick around. I have asked 13 "older" pilots if they will stay, and 9 said yes.

Any NWA pilot with a frozen monthly benefit of $10,000 is also into the Excess Plan. As soon as they read the R&I Committee e-mail that went out today, showing that their Excess lump sum will decrease if they fly past 60...they might change their minds.

 

[nwaredtail]

Any NWA pilot with a frozen monthly benefit of $10,000 is also into the Excess Plan. As soon as they read the R&I Committee e-mail that went out today, showing that their Excess lump sum will decrease if they fly past 60...they might change their minds.

Excess plan lump sum @ 60 = 129k
excess plan lump sum @ 65 = 115k

You think they will leave for a lump sum difference of 2-4 thousand annually when they can make 2-3 grand more each month?

Don't think so.

 

[NuGuy]

Attention noobs! Mr. Glass-Half-Empty is a good guy...he's just cranky right now. Wait 'til Mr. Glass-Half-Full buys him lunch at NATCO next month. Everybody feels better after a free lunch!

It's not that I'm a glass half empty kind of guy. Rather, I want to know who the fkuc stole half outta my glass!


Nu

 

[Occam's Razor]

It's not that I'm a glass half empty kind of guy. Rather, I want to know who the fkuc stole half outta my glass!


Nu

Good one!
:beer:

(His name was "Gropper")

 

[Occam's Razor]

Excess plan lump sum @ 60 = 129k
excess plan lump sum @ 65 = 115k

You think they will leave for a lump sum difference of 2-4 thousand annually when they can make 2-3 grand more each month?

For many...yup.

The key here is the verb. "Make" involves dragging your aging carcass out of the rack at 0500 for the commute to your 13-day Pacific funfest.

That flying makes 40-year olds age like the picture of Dorian Gray. Seen any of the "In Memoriam" notices for the ROPE's doing that stuff now?

There will be a few hardy mooks who'll hang on, but I think the impact will be less than we think.

 

[nwaredtail]

For many...yup.

The key here is the verb. "Make" involves dragging your aging carcass out of the rack at 0500 for the commute to your 13-day Pacific funfest.

That flying makes 40-year olds age like the picture of Dorian Gray. Seen any of the "In Memoriam" notices for the ROPE's doing that stuff now?

There will be a few hardy mooks who'll hang on, but I think the impact will be less than we think.

I hope so.

 

[123]

Excess plan lump sum @ 60 = 129k
excess plan lump sum @ 65 = 115k

You think they will leave for a lump sum difference of 2-4 thousand annually when they can make 2-3 grand more each month?

Don't think so.

Actually, the difference is quite significant if you look at the time value of money. Retiring today and getting $129k in todays dollars vs retiring in 5 years and recieving $115k in Future Value. Assuming a 7% interest rate, that $115 is equal to approximately $82k in todays value. That is significant.

 

[donvag]

Can someone already in NW explain how international trips work for you guys. I know you guys fly some routes out of NRT to other parts of Asia. My questions is how do those trips start for you guys? Are they 4 day trips? Do you guys fly from lets say DTW to NRT and then a Manila turn and then back to DTW 2 days later? Any explanations would be very helpful.

 

[NuGuy]

Can someone already in NW explain how international trips work for you guys. I know you guys fly some routes out of NRT to other parts of Asia. My questions is how do those trips start for you guys? Are they 4 day trips? Do you guys fly from lets say DTW to NRT and then a Manila turn and then back to DTW 2 days later? Any explanations would be very helpful.

Heyas Don,

Most of the Pacific stuff involves long trips, say 10-12 days.

First day, you fly out to NRT, then you do inter-pacific stuff for 8-10 days, then fly back the last day.

Nu

 

[YourPilotFriend]

For many...yup.

The key here is the verb. "Make" involves dragging your aging carcass out of the rack at 0500 for the commute to your 13-day Pacific funfest.

That flying makes 40-year olds age like the picture of Dorian Gray. Seen any of the "In Memoriam" notices for the ROPE's doing that stuff now?

There will be a few hardy mooks who'll hang on, but I think the impact will be less than we think.

I agree with Occam here. Also, NWA is not going to displace the whole airline to accommodate the ropes. It's much cheaper to throw them all on the 400 and give them crap ass schedules. At that point their difference in pay between staying and retiring is negligible.

 

[Superpilot92]

TTT bump