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NWA -- more 9s going... *sigh*

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Exactly... Its all pressure for the mechs to act.... I'm not saying the fuel price doesnt sting... but come on..... It is all too obvious. Typcical NWA Labor Management. C'mon AMFA.. gonna sell out all the junior boys to keep you fat paycheck ?

Too bad. I sincerely feel for many of the mechanics and pilots who are on the street. All freinds and neighbors.

RAISE THE FARES YOU CORPORATE FATHEADS !
 
It's funny how the NWA regional folks are all like "sorry, good luck, let's just get along when things are going their way". Let's see how they act when the NWA pilots agree to fly 70 seaters at regional rates and they park the Avro's . Or when Skywest gets to fly 50 RJ's and things get stagnant at the POS Pinnacle.

Hope you folks enjoy those little jets. By the time the majors will hire again, they won't be a good place to work anymore. Never thought your aspirations would be for Jetblue or Airtran did you.
 
Also, yes the regional feeds the mainline, but what the hell do think the DC-9 does? All that I know is that, for example, sice Mesaba has been going to ORD, that stations on time performance went down 60%, cancellations are up 30%, and the general station personel say the pax are pissed they have to fly on that AVRO. Coach seats suck, no room in overhead, etc. UAL and AA went back to mainline kets on the route because people (high paying ORD folks) do not like flying in the jet. But here is NWA expanding. Too funny
 
nwaredtail said:
All that I know is that, for example, sice Mesaba has been going to ORD, that stations on time performance went down 60%, cancellations are up 30%, and the general station personel say the pax are pissed they have to fly on that AVRO. Coach seats suck, no room in overhead, etc.

You've got to be kidding! Just short of being in a premium seat on mainline, the Avro's back seats are by far the most comfortable seats arounds. I would sure as h*ll prefer to sit in the back of an Avro for three hours than the back of a 757-300.

Having worked as a gate agent, when pax see the Avro sitting out there, they automatically associate the Avro with NWA. Their boarding pass says "Northwest Airlines", not Mesaba Airlines. And half the people don't even listen to the onboard announcement to catch the "Northwest Airlink, operated by Mesaba Airlines."

You're pullin' for strings hear dude. Yeah, parking the DC-9's really sucks. But none of us want to stoop to the level of "slinging" to see who has the more correct stance.
 
Dude, the seats in the AVRO Suck. Not the seat with regards to seat pitch. The seat itself. The lumbar blows. And yes, when they see a NW AVro there, they think it's a NWA plane. So when you all screw up it reflects bad on us, not you. great deal huh. It may be the biggest regional jet around but that is like saying your crap smells the best. Do flatter yourself. Just be careful when the NWA guys agree to fly 70 seaters, AVRO will be gone.
 
Well, ya know what, I certainly hope that we will come to an agreement to have NWA guys flying left seat and XJer's in the right. This will ultimately help out YOUR union by getting people off of the street and ours by providing limited growth. Will the Avros go by the wayside??? Probably. Will this happen overnight. Nope.

So lets relax on the banter and not forget that WE WORK FOR THE SAME TEAM!!!
 
nwaredtail said:
It's funny how the NWA regional folks are all like "sorry, good luck, let's just get along when things are going their way". Let's see how they act when the NWA pilots agree to fly 70 seaters at regional rates and they park the Avro's . Or when Skywest gets to fly 50 RJ's and things get stagnant at the POS Pinnacle.

Hope you folks enjoy those little jets. By the time the majors will hire again, they won't be a good place to work anymore. Never thought your aspirations would be for Jetblue or Airtran did you.


nwaredtail,

I think our regional guys/gals have shown alot of class in their
responses to this announcement. They are just along for the
ride like the rest of us. Looks to me like most of them
have the "big picture".

I know you are pissed, I am also.

Dave B
 
dbrownie said:
nwaredtail,

I think our regional guys/gals have shown alot of class in their
responses to this announcement. They are just along for the
ride like the rest of us. Looks to me like most of them
have the "big picture".

I know you are pissed, I am also.

Dave B

Great response, DB. Sorry about the 9s….

Redtailer,

I think all regional pilots know this is pretty much the end of their run to the majors. I don't think any of them wanted to end up at the regionals for the rest of there lives. And I know the majority of Regional pilots hate seeing any NWA pilots on the streets. It is us (NWA,XJ, 9E Pilots) against MANAGEMENT. lets stick together so we (pilots) can all acheive our goals....

See ya

PS. Stop calling Saabs - Slaabs;)
 
Man I have ridden in the bus the 9 and the 75 and the avro......as far as my ass is concerned..( and I am talking about my back side that hits the seat!) the bus is tops then the avro. Can't imagine using the seats that are installed in a plane as a way to bash a pilot group....that is original!
 
redtailer,

You can agree to flying the 70 seaters are a low rate all you want, but its not your pay that managment is concerned about that much. NWA can not operate them at a competitive rate due to the high pay rates of the mechs, fa's and ground handlers. Sorry you want to undercut us, wait you did say that, funny thats what we have been accused of by you over and over again.
 
nwaredtail said:
It's funny how the NWA regional folks are all like "sorry, good luck, let's just get along when things are going their way". Let's see how they act when the NWA pilots agree to fly 70 seaters at regional rates and they park the Avro's .

I actually hope this happens. More flying at the mainline means more of a chance for me at the mainline!

nwaredtail said:
POS Pinnacle.

Funny! :D
 
AvroJockey said:
I actually hope this happens. More flying at the mainline means more of a chance for me at the mainline!



Funny! :D


Avrojockey,

You have the right attitude. You do. Not many can see that fact.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
NWA to pare its fleet, cut up to 900 jobs

uhhhgggg. Such an industry we live/work in. Why lord, Oh why lord, me??

Northwest Airlines, facing a lethal combination of persistently high fuel prices and stubbornly low fares, will reduce its fleet by 30 airplanes in 2005 and slash up to 900 high-paying mechanics jobs from its Minnesota payroll.

For airline workers, passengers and investors, the retiring of planes and a new round of job cuts are fresh reminders that the steep, four-year decline in the fortunes of large airlines shows no signs of lifting, even as Northwest and other airline executives win wage reductions from some or all of their employees.

"Just when you think you've hit bottom, they pull it out from underneath you again," said Jeff Mathews, contract coordinator with the mechanics union, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA).

Northwest had 451 planes in its fleet at the end of 2004. Most, if not all, of the 30 that will be parked are DC-9s, which have an average age of 33.8 years and seat between 78 and 125 passengers. On Monday, Northwest said it would freeze the number of domestic seat miles it will fly this year at 2004 levels.

It blamed a glut of seats in the U.S. aviation market.

It's unclear how Twin Cities passengers will be affected by Northwest's decision to take some planes out of service, but a company spokesman said the airline expects to reduce the frequency of flights on some routes.

The Eagan-based carrier said Wednesday that it will shut down a DC-9 heavy-maintenance check line in the Twin Cities and not bring back six planes that had been scheduled to fly this year. The immediate impact: 130 mechanic jobs will be cut. Notices will go out in the next couple of weeks, and mechanics could use their seniority to take jobs elsewhere in the Northwest system -- displacing less senior workers in the process -- or simply accept a layoff and leave the Northwest payroll.

Another dozen AMFA members who work in a Twin Cities composite shop also will be given notices because they support the heavy maintenance work.

Before the 2001 terrorist attacks, AMFA represented about 5,300 Northwest workers in the Twin Cities. That number has fallen to about 3,150, according to Ted Ludwig, president of AMFA Local 33 in Bloomington.

"I was here when we had the Iraq war layoffs when 1,683 guys got their pink slips in one day," Ludwig said. "This is just something that we've grown accustomed to and we will deal with it one day at a time as it comes."

Northwest said Wednesday that it will take another 24 planes out of service, but it declined to give a timetable for those changes.

"The first reduction will take place in June while additional aircraft will be phased out later this year," the Northwest pilots union said in a memo to pilots on Wednesday night.

"Because a large number of DC-9s are owned rather than leased, Northwest indicated it can realize a net savings by removing these aircraft from routes that are identified as unprofitable," the pilots union said.

Taking two dozen planes out of service will mean cutting an extra 700 to 800 mechanic jobs in the Twin Cities, where workers take planes apart, inspect them for cracks and wear, and rebuild them over the course of weeks. By eliminating so-called heavy maintenance work on its DC-9s, Northwest said it will close two of its maintenance lines operated by an outside vendor in Texas.

The worst-case scenario for the mechanics union is 930 job cuts this year.

But three other large Northwest unions -- the pilots, flight attendants and ground workers -- are not expecting job cuts.

Management does not plan to furlough any more Northwest pilots this year, according to the Northwest branch of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA). But the company also does not expect to call more pilots back to work, and about 500 are still on furlough.

Bob Krabbe, an official with the Professional Flight Attendants Association (PFAA), said Northwest is not expected to furlough more flight attendants. Instead, he said, any changes in staffing levels will be managed through voluntary leaves.

Union leader Steve Dunn said his union, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), has been notified that job cuts for IAM ground workers are not planned.

However, the flight attendants, ground workers and mechanics unions all are in mediated contract negotiations with Northwest. Management is seeking at least $950 million per year in labor savings from its workers, and CEO Doug Steenland has said that target could go higher.

Some mechanics believe Northwest is trying to shift more of its domestic flying to regional partners such as Pinnacle Airlines, where pay levels are lower and planes are newer, and thus require less maintenance.

While the number of seat miles flown by Northwest pilots will be flat this year, Northwest projected that its flight capacity for regional carriers will increase by 32 to 34 percent.

"We are moving into the busiest part of the travel season. I don't know why we'd be reducing capacity," Ludwig said. "I believe they are moving these flights over to Pinnacle."

Northwest said it has not made a policy decision to shift a major portion of its flying to Pinnacle.

"The reduction in Northwest domestic capacity will currently not be offset by regional jet flying," Northwest spokesman Thomas Becher said.

Joel Denney, an airline analyst at Piper Jaffray & Co., said industry insiders have been waiting for some airlines to go out of business because of massive losses that have been posted over the past four years.

Instead, United Airlines, the nation's second-biggest carrier, and US Airways continue to languish in bankruptcy court. Delta Air Lines is once again warning that it might have to file for bankruptcy protection and Continental Airlines announced Tuesday that its employees must approve concessionary contracts by March 30 or it will insist on even deeper labor cuts.

Last year, Northwest lost $878 million, and it has lost about $2.5 billion on its operations over the past four years. Federal aid and the sale of some major assets helped lower its total net loss.

"You've got more capacity than the market can handle, which is why you are seeing Northwest holding back," Denney said. The airline is attempting to reduce losses and boost fares, he said. With fuel prices remaining at record levels, Denney said, there are no signs of significant improvement in the airline industry.

AMFA leaders had been fearful that Northwest would phase out heavy maintenance jobs in the Twin Cities, because the airline plans to tear down an airport hangar to make way for more gates.

Ludwig and other union members have urged members of the Minnesota Legislature and Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC) to block the further loss of mechanic jobs.

But the MAC and Gov. Tim Pawlenty have shown strong support for Northwest's airport expansion plan, and the Legislature has not inserted itself into the airline's labor-management relations.
 
The saab has crew costs, on average, of about 54/hr for capt., 32/hr for fo, and 18?/hr for fa. I gotta believe the break-even point on that aircraft is 10 passengers or less. Most of my legs have 15-34 on board, the exception is a few routes like msp-yqt. The profit flows up through mesabi to nwa. This after 5% increases for capt, and 17% for fo. We could have got more, if not for a timid mec, and the possibility nwa might find someone cheaper (mesa?). Who is subsidizing whom?

About keeping 70 seaters on nwa, that is great in the long run for the profession and the "union", but let's remember that if nwa does ever start hiring, only a few mesabi folks will go, while most will retire right there. mesabi pilots will only be selected after military types and affirmative action slots are taken. Thousands of "other" regional and corporate types will compete for the few dozen slots left.
So, our best hope is to continue the good service we provide(in spite of mgmt.), and demand fair treatment from mgmt. and our nwa "brothers". You are far more likely to retire on the saab, than move up to nwa. How's that for a dream!
 
saabservant said:
The saab has crew costs, on average, of about 54/hr for capt., 32/hr for fo, and 18?/hr for fa. I gotta believe the break-even point on that aircraft is 10 passengers or less. Most of my legs have 15-34 on board, the exception is a few routes like msp-yqt. The profit flows up through mesabi to nwa. This after 5% increases for capt, and 17% for fo. We could have got more, if not for a timid mec, and the possibility nwa might find someone cheaper (mesa?). Who is subsidizing whom?

Dont forget about the per fee departure that NWA pays the airlinks. That means your break-even point with pax is even lower and could even be in the negative.

Now lets take the 50 seater rj. I hear that it cost the same to run that a/c as it does to run a 737-300. That translates into higher seat cost and less revenue.
 
CRJ casm's are high, true, but nwa must be making money on it's regionals anyway. Consider the combined effect of lower paid mechanics, crews, and ground personnel. That's why mgmt. wants 70 seaters at airlink.
If the airlinks were losing money, then I suppose the only reason mgmt. operates them are as a lever to permanently restructure pay and benefits across the board. If so, what is the solution to that?
I have an idea, but the costs to senior people would be too high....

Again, does anybody put their passengers on a turboprop by choice, or because the market/route will not support a larger aircraft, and tb's are cheaper to operate.?
 
So What

HowlinMadMurdoc said:
That are gas-guzzlers...

While I don't like seeing planes parked because of the effects on recalls, all airlines (including NWA) are getting squeezed on fuel costs. Parking paid-for planes and transferring that flying to regional partners OR continue flying fuel-inefficient airplanes? Which is the lesser of two evils? I don't know.

Best of luck to all at NWA.

HMM
The CASM is still higher on an RJ than it is on a DC9. That includes maintenance, aircrew cost, benefits, etc. Why not park them instead. They are uncomfortable and piss off the passengers. Just ask one if they would rather fly on a 9 or an RJ some time. My neighbors are always ragging on me about them "buying a NWA ticket and end up on some crappy RJ."
 
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