NWA Leather Jackets........

[xjhawk]

Here is a funny story....but one thing first. I have my preference, i like them, whenever i see one, i think..."wow, a comfortable, warm, long lasting, and multi-functional coat to be used at work and look cool on overnights." That said.... last year i tried to get my airline to get them. I got a bad reaction from many.......i think they are one card shy of a full deck.....

Anyways, I was non-reving on a NWA flight and was talking to a NWA guy who was doing the same thing, who seemed like a nice guy.....but here goes the story. The first officer came back to talk to us, i saw his leather jacket, and mentioned how cool they were. He said he has gotten a lot of flack for having it. He said that many at NWA equat the new leather jackets as being a symbol of their lower pay and bad work rules.....he basically said the leather jacket made his life more comfortable and he thought those who thought that were idiots. Meanwhile, that other NWA pilot who was nonreving, had a scowl on his face and was shaking his head, obviously at the leather jacket.......

Now I say this.....southwest airlines has those same jackets......and their work rules are great.........so it must not be the leather jackets......and those attitudes by those who hate the jackets, they must hate themselves.....

I forsee if NWA buys XJ, the XJ pilots will be hated even more than those leather jackets.......I will say this.....i have known many NWA pilots....most are cool.......so to those of you who are NWA pilots.....and hate the new jackets...ask yourself why??????? Oh, if you do not like the jacket, do not buy one......this has been just a story.......not meant to offend anyone....even PETA (well, i do not care if i offend them!)

 

[GuppyWN]

What in the he!! was that all about?

Gup

 

[nwaredtail]

Why would you equate NWA buying Mesaba to the NWA pilots hating Mesaba folks. There you be no merger of any seniority list as the plan would be to buy you dirt cheap, pay off your management, and then operate Mesaba as a separate company (like we did with Pinnacle, Delta with Comair, ASA ). In a couple of years, IPO you or sell again for big money.

I am sure there aren't too many folks thinking we were going to merge with Mesaba..... Not that flying a Saab wouldnt be fun in the summer.

 

[nwaredtail]

as far as the leather jackets go, there have been some outspoken guys that spout the "lack of Professionalism" rant about them, but who the hell cares. Most of the pilot's I know are pretty much dorks and I could care less what they think. I like the comfort/ convenience.

respect is earned, not demanded. Usually the guys that make fun of the leather coats are the same ones still wearing their hats thinking people actually "care" about what pilots look like.

 

[xjhawk]

i guess the story is a little more funny when i tell it in person.....ha...sorry...i guess the moral of the story is displaced anger......

 

[xjhawk]

see, someone who knows.....

as far as the leather jackets go, there have been some outspoken guys that spout the "lack of Professionalism" rant about them, but who the hell cares. Most of the pilot's I know are pretty much dorks and I could care less what they think. I like the comfort/ convenience.

respect is earned, not demanded. Usually the guys that make fun of the leather coats are the same ones still wearing their hats thinking people actually "care" about what pilots look like.

exactly....that was the moral of my story.....

 

[LaidOffAgain]

as far as the leather jackets go, there have been some outspoken guys that spout the "lack of Professionalism" rant about them, but who the hell cares. Most of the pilot's I know are pretty much dorks and I could care less what they think. I like the comfort/ convenience.

respect is earned, not demanded. Usually the guys that make fun of the leather coats are the same ones still wearing their hats thinking people actually "care" about what pilots look like.

Wow so NWA finally got leather jackets! Let me guess they are paid by the company also right?? Well at least payroll deducted! haha

 

[filejw]

I think a point is missed here.NWA approved a jacket that cost about 400$ after 40% pay cuts. The same jacket can be imported from our station in BOM for about 95$.

 

[c9skytrain]

Pop's leather. They will even put in a concealed carry pocket. zip in/out liner, or sewn in etc.

http://www.popsleather.com/prod_v2.php3?prod=224

 

[bestpilot]

Usually the guys that make fun of the leather coats are the same ones still wearing their hats thinking people actually "care" about what pilots look like.

Duuude yoo are so rong! Wehn ole Ty Guy an me go clubbin and stuff in dat Ellle--Ayyyy-XXXXX chicks be diggin da hat!

Ty Guy sayz dat hiz "special friends" in Cisco luvvem too!

 

[sfomarc]

respect is earned, not demanded. Usually the guys that make fun of the leather coats are the same ones still wearing their hats thinking people actually "care" about what pilots look like.

Or Ropers

 

[SNOWBUM]

it is not about what people think, is about the perception you give to management and the peception of worth you have over yourself. have you ever seen a legacy airline CEO go to a board meeting wearing a leather jacket?no, they wear armani suits and prada shoes.

it is all psicological. if you dress like a truck driver you will get paid like a truck driver. it is one more of the many management ways to "show us " how little they value you and your services, how you don't belong making six figures and how they are entitled to their huge pay. they are superior to you, they drive nice cars , have big homes and dress with expensive suits. you don't , because you shouldn't, because you are a worthless comodity.

every union should negotiate expensive designer uniforms to the shoes and t-shirts with very small epaulets. dress pilots like businessmen, doctors,lawyers......highly paid proffesionals.

conduct yourself with pride, don't sell yourself short. have you ever heard one of those upper management clowns prop him/herself up about something he /she did that a 3 year old could have done ?they make everything they do seem incredible...the cool/hero factor of flying needs to go away, the "good old boy just doing my job" attitude needs to go away. docotrs don't make what they do sound cool, they make it sound important and difficult and don't wear leather jackets and dirty $50 shoes. If you want to earn like a doctor act like one, proyect your proffesion to be as important as theirs, dress like you should. your sense of worth is all psicological.

the leather jacket is one more way to lower your expectations and diminish your self worth.

I know it sounds weird, but is one more psicological battle we just lost.

and no, at home I don't dress with expensive suits, but at work , you should. .

 

[HalinTexas]

if you dress like a truck driver you will get paid like a truck driver

Most truck drivers get paid more than most airline pilots when they start out.

When you're a member of a union you will be treated like labor unless you can hold your skills out independently of the industry. Don't see much of that do you?

If you want to blame someone, blame your union for reducing your standards (assuming you voted against the concessions) and your management for incompetence. Just make sure you blame someone else. If this were a true profession you could go independent. Like a doctor or a lawyer or a trucker or a gypsy cab.

 

[captcaveman]

"psychological"

 

[SNOWBUM]

actually most truck drivers start at 25-30k a year and make about $50k a year after having enough experienceto drive triple loads, unless they are working as a team driver( read 24 hours non-stop on trucks coast to coast) or nigth shifts with no weekends and split days off, in wich case they can pull 70-80k. A ups truck driver with lots of senority and a cake route makes abour 70k(no overtime ) ,but geting hired as a ups or fedex truck driver is like getting hired as a ups/fedex pilot ( lots of experience needed, lots of applicants).

I'm not blaming leather jackets for the pitiful state of the industry, however, it is just one more psychological factor to add on the pile of "you are not worth it".

it used to be that there was a big pay, benefits and QOL difference between legacy pilots and everyone else, and the "everyone else " pilots had leather jackets ( and wanted to be legfacy pilots). now there is not much difference between the LCC/everyone else and the legacies when it comes to PAY bennies and QOL, and the legacy uniform now includes a leather jacket.it is a way for management to make you feel like you are not worth more as a UAL 747-400 captain than a 320 skybus FO.

is all about perception , the perception of selfworth you have about yourself and the management perceptiopn of you and your worth.

 

[HalinTexas]

Have you seen how much UPS and CAL pay to start?

The "$25-30K" you quote is still higher than all regional carriers.

 

[SNOWBUM]

I guess you still miss the whole point . nevermind.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Saw one of the NWA pilots wearing the leather jacket the other day... just doesn't look right, I have to say.

I guess I'm too traditional...

 

[XJohXJ]

Southwest pilots are, overall, the best paid pilots in our country. Southwest management respects, supports, and appreciates their pilot group. Southwest management treat their pilots as assets, rather than as liabilities. Southwest pilots wear leather jackets. (They also get cheap beer at their hotels and only have an 8 hour rule, rather than 12, because Southwest knows they are professionals, not high school kids, and the pilots know that it is OK to have fun.)

What you wear to work does not matter to ANYONE. The only things that matter are:

Do you enjoy your work and do it well?
Do you earn enough to support your family?
Do your work rules protect you from exhaustion/chronic stress?
Do your work rules keep your job as one worth having?

What you wear has no bearing on any of these factors.

 

[nwaredtail]

************************* an A Bubby, somebidy who actually gets it................

 

[SNOWBUM]

swa pilots had leather jackets from day 1 or almost from day 1. big difference, and they were not always, by a long shot , the best compensated, quite the oposite.
go backy to june 2000, see who had leather jackets and what their compensation was.

again is just one more mental game from management.

 

[TWA Dude]

it is not about what people think, is about the perception you give to management and the peception of worth you have over yourself.

What does that have to do with leather? Contracts are decided in the negotiating room; not walking through the terminals.

have you ever seen a legacy airline CEO go to a board meeting wearing a leather jacket?no, they wear armani suits and prada shoes.

How many layovers, walks to McDonalds, exterior preflights in dripping glycol, trips through security, and tired commutes do CEOs have? You're comparing their jobs to ours?

it is all psychological.

To you it is. To me, it's about convenience at a job that wreaks havoc with quality of life.

every union should negotiate expensive designer uniforms to the shoes and t-shirts with very small epaulets.

And you think this would make management respect us more? Methinks your knowldege of phsychology needs some work. All that would do is increase our day-to-day cost to maintain our uniforms.

conduct yourself with pride, don't sell yourself short.

Absolutely! Why did you change the subject?

the leather jacket is one more way to lower your expectations and diminish your self worth.

Lofty words. Prove it! That's right; prove it. Prove that the pilots at airlines that permit leather jackets give more concessions than those that don't. Until you can your opinion is nothing more than an opinion.

and no, at home I don't dress with expensive suits, but at work , you should. .

People who wear expensive suits generally own many of them. Who exactly would you expect to pay for multiple uniforms? The company? Yeah sure, what concessions are you willing to give for the priviledge of wearing fancy uniforms? You think they're just going to give them to us?

 

[Britpilot]

it is not about what people think, is about the perception you give to management and the peception of worth you have over yourself. have you ever seen a legacy airline CEO go to a board meeting wearing a leather jacket?no, they wear armani suits and prada shoes.

it is all psicological. if you dress like a truck driver you will get paid like a truck driver. it is one more of the many management ways to "show us " how little they value you and your services, how you don't belong making six figures and how they are entitled to their huge pay. they are superior to you, they drive nice cars , have big homes and dress with expensive suits. you don't , because you shouldn't, because you are a worthless comodity.

every union should negotiate expensive designer uniforms to the shoes and t-shirts with very small epaulets. dress pilots like businessmen, doctors,lawyers......highly paid proffesionals.

conduct yourself with pride, don't sell yourself short. have you ever heard one of those upper management clowns prop him/herself up about something he /she did that a 3 year old could have done ?they make everything they do seem incredible...the cool/hero factor of flying needs to go away, the "good old boy just doing my job" attitude needs to go away. docotrs don't make what they do sound cool, they make it sound important and difficult and don't wear leather jackets and dirty $50 shoes. If you want to earn like a doctor act like one, proyect your proffesion to be as important as theirs, dress like you should. your sense of worth is all psicological.

the leather jacket is one more way to lower your expectations and diminish your self worth.

I know it sounds weird, but is one more psicological battle we just lost.

and no, at home I don't dress with expensive suits, but at work , you should. .

Ha,ha.ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ho,ho,ho,ho,ho,BwwwHaaa,ha.
Best laugh this year.

 

[Oh-ryan]

swa pilots had leather jackets from day 1 or almost from day 1. big difference, and they were not always, by a long shot , the best compensated, quite the oposite.
go backy to june 2000, see who had leather jackets and what their compensation was.

again is just one more mental game from management.

Snowbum,

I've held my tongue long enough. After reading all of your posts on this thread I can't help but laugh at your attempts to raise the perception of the professional pilot to that of doctors and CEOs. Your main argument in order to do this is to basically tell all of us to stop wearing leather jackets. I'll make you a deal, I'll stop wearing a leather jacket if you promise to make one single post that does not have spelling/grammatical errors all over it. God help all of us if you get into a position to bargin with CEOs through written correspondence. I know this is just a message board, and generally I would just look the other way, but I'd rather look like a "unprofessional" in my leather jacket than spell/type like my 3 year old. I guess it's just "psicological"... but hey that's me.

Deer Mr. Airline CEO,

We pilots our unifyied. Just look at how we dress, proffessional... just like you. We demand hi salarys and better working conditions. Please except are terms.

Thank you,
Snowbum

 

[XJohXJ]

Snowbum:

It appears that you like the argument and philosophy of blaming the victim, as if through their own behavior, they have brought their fates upon themselves. You are claiming that because a pilot desires comfort and high utility from his enforced (and expensive) work clothing, he deserves greedy and unethical management. I suppose that battered children don't behave well enough, and rape victims just dress too sexy, also?

 

[SNOWBUM]

what I was trying to say is that before all the QOL,PAY and Bennies cuts, most of us who worked for the regionals, outfits and LCC's wore leather jackets and wanted to work for the big boys.

now that the big boys compensation has gone down to equal ( in some cases even worse) that of the LCC's and outfits, they get the leather jacket too. coincidence? not.It is one more thing management has done to separate you from the good all days of 2000 and before.

I don't think your job as a pilot is more important of that of the CEO ( is not) or that you should get paid like one.

I don't think you are less profesional for wearing a leather jacket. but it does separate you from the days when this was a real career and a real profesion( like doctors or lawyers) , with real earning potential, good QOL, retirement and respect.

 

[XJohXJ]

Snowbum, thanks, that last statement makes more sense. I would only go on to say that I do not believe refusing the leather jacket will make things better regarding pay and QOL. So, why not enjoy being somewhat more comfortable at work?

 

[CF34-3B1]

I'm sure airline managers all over the planet are trying to figure out how to get you to wear paper hats next.

There's about as much correlation between leather jackets and pay cuts as there is between what my neighbors dog ate for breakfast and why the Eagles beat the Cowboys.

 

[catIIIc]

I guess Fed Ex pilots are not professional either, didn't they just sign a very lucrative contract? And oh yeah they don't wear hats either.

 

[AC560]

Men wearing Prada shoes?