NWA hires FLYi EX Management CP, DOM, CI, DOS for Compass

[TurboAWD]

Explain to me why Northwest needs to even waste money buying a new certificate. Why don't the Northwest pilots fly these planes under the Northwest banner at industry standard rates?

I welcome anyone to answer this question. No one seems to know the answer. Its just 'that's what everyone else is doing'.

Oh, I know this one!!!!

It is to:

1) Raise capital by selling the compass unit in a few years (see MDA, and the Pncl IPO)

and
2) Create more long term leverage against the employee groups. It will accomplish this by putting more of the flying in a "contract" basis, which means if any one group gets too good a contract, that company can be replaced by one with lower paid employees. It will also allow mgmt to point at a yet larger aircraft being staffed, maintined, etc. by lower paid employees when discussing the airplanes at mainline. As in "well, we'd like to pay more to fly the EMB190/DC9?A319, but look at how much lower these people operate the EMB175 for. And it will work great in the next downturn too: "judge, our airlink partners fly the EMB175, so it makes much more economic sense for us to outsource our EMB195's to the them as well, given the efficiencies of operating them together."

Turbo (running to walgreens for KY)

 

[Tank Commander]

Anyone want to post a guess on how long it will take Northwest Management to sell Compass? It would be a great way to get exit financing.

The precedent is there. US Air pilots thought they saved the E190 flying. Now they work for Chautauqua making less than turboprop pilots at ASA and Horizon. Mid Atlantic got sold off to Republic.

All this is is a job grab - and what prime positions they will be. Compass pilots will have the joy of negotiating against the pilots at Mesa, Chautauqua, ASA, Skywest, Pinnacle, Air Wisconsin........ Heck, maybe Mesaba guys can return the favor some time.

9E and XJ pilots are safe if they vote for this TA. They are cheaper. They will be sold-off. 18mo-36mo. That would fall in with NWA's BK exit plan. Go a head and vote yes, come-on down, the view is great down here!

 

[starvingredtail]

Anyone want to post a guess on how long it will take Northwest Management to sell Compass? It would be a great way to get exit financing.

The precedent is there. US Air pilots thought they saved the E190 flying. Now they work for Chautauqua making less than turboprop pilots at ASA and Horizon. Mid Atlantic got sold off to Republic.

All this is is a job grab - and what prime positions they will be. Compass pilots will have the joy of negotiating against the pilots at Mesa, Chautauqua, ASA, Skywest, Pinnacle, Air Wisconsin........ Heck, maybe Mesaba guys can return the favor some time.

bingo

 

[starvingredtail]

Oh, I know this one!!!!

It is to:

1) Raise capital by selling the compass unit in a few years (see MDA, and the Pncl IPO)

and
2) Create more long term leverage against the employee groups. It will accomplish this by putting more of the flying in a "contract" basis, which means if any one group gets too good a contract, that company can be replaced by one with lower paid employees. It will also allow mgmt to point at a yet larger aircraft being staffed, maintined, etc. by lower paid employees when discussing the airplanes at mainline. As in "well, we'd like to pay more to fly the EMB190/DC9?A319, but look at how much lower these people operate the EMB175 for. And it will work great in the next downturn too: "judge, our airlink partners fly the EMB175, so it makes much more economic sense for us to outsource our EMB195's to the them as well, given the efficiencies of operating them together."

Turbo (running to walgreens for KY)

Double Bingo.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

nevermind

 

[Occam's Razor]

Anyone want to post a guess on how long it will take Northwest Management to sell Compass? It would be a great way to get exit financing.

Put me down for 2 years from the emergence from Chapter 11 of NWA. I'll guess the price too: $500-million.

The precedent is there. US Air pilots thought they saved the E190 flying. Now they work for Chautauqua making less than turboprop pilots at ASA and Horizon. Mid Atlantic got sold off to Republic.

The pilots at Compass will have an ALPA contract and their own MEC made up of their own pilots to lead them through that process.

All this is is a job grab - and what prime positions they will be. Compass pilots will have the joy of negotiating against the pilots at Mesa, Chautauqua, ASA, Skywest, Pinnacle, Air Wisconsin........ Heck, maybe Mesaba guys can return the favor some time.

A whipsaw!

Just like I'm being whipsawed against the pilots of United, American, Delta, and USAirways! Most of them voted for pay cuts and other concessions before we found ourselves in the crosshairs. In 2003, others were approving cuts to their contracts, while we gained a 10% raise. We tried to keep the trend moving up, but the industry didn't recover as quickly as ALL of us had hoped it would...and NWA pilots found themselves under the same pressure that others had experienced.

Unless things turn around in the next year or two, I fully expect MSA, PCL, CMR, ASA, etc pilots to face the same whipsawing all of us experience when management has the Possession Arrow. Using the same inertia, pilot groups try to whipsaw managements when the Possession Arrow is in OUR favor. The UAL contract in 2000 leapfrogged the NWA post-strike contract of 1998. The DAL contract of 2001 leapfrogged UAL. CMR pilots went on strike for 89 days in 2001 to set the bar higher for all RJ operators.

 

[dbrownie]

Put me down for 2 years from the emergence from Chapter 11 of NWA. I'll guess the price too: $500-million.



The pilots at Compass will have an ALPA contract and their own MEC made up of their own pilots to lead them through that process.

Occum;

You must be a MSP based pilot; you guys seem to be the only ones
in full "cool aide" mode.

This TA is a total sell out by our union. You really think we can't do better?

Did you see that out Frieght Dept. has been renamed Compass?
Guess what that means? Wake up.

You claim to be going back to the DC-9 and yet still are going to vote yes.
This will be the end of the DC-9 flying at NWA.

Welcome to Compass.

You claim Compass will have it's own alpa mec, after the screwing NWA pilots
get from alpa I wouldn't bet on that.

Dave B

 

[Occam's Razor]

You must be a MSP based pilot; you guys seem to be the only ones
in full "cool aide" mode.

I am a MSP pilot. Are you suggesting that pilots from other bases don't support the T/A? If so, you need to read more.

This TA is a total sell out by our union. You really think we can't do better?

Disagree...and I believe the risk/reward ratio favors ratification of the T/A. I've attended a Roadshow and listened to the advisors and experts. Have you?

Did you see that out Frieght Dept. has been renamed Compass?
Guess what that means? Wake up.

Have you actually read the document? That's a rhetorical question. If you had, you wouldn't have mentioned it. The name "Compass" was embedded in an old NWA subsidiary filing. (Note: Northwest Cargo is a subsidiary of NWA, Inc. Since you work here, you should probably know that sort of thing) The SEC filing regarding "Compass" and our cargo operation means nothing. They filed to move a name from one subsidiary to another. That's all.

You claim to be going back to the DC-9 and yet still are going to vote yes.
This will be the end of the DC-9 flying at NWA.

Based on what? Your trick knee? Tea leaves? A "gut feeling"? Fact: NWA published a "parking" schedule for the DC-9 fleet in May, 1999. Since then they have followed that schedule (based on 104,000 cycles on each hull) +/- 5 hulls per year. The only big exception was the retention of the DC-9-10 fleet for 6-months longer than they told us.

From May 1999, when we got the schedule, until 9/11, NWA parked DC-9's as they hit the cycle limit, purchased RJ's for our Airlinks...and hired pilots at the mainline!

Think about that for a minute before you assert facts you know nothing about.

The DC-9's are paid for, and NWA will not get the $$ they need to exit bankruptcy with 1/4 of the fleet parked. DC-9's are about 1/4 of the fleet. It was covered at the Roadshow...

You claim Compass will have it's own alpa mec, after the screwing NWA pilots
get from alpa I wouldn't bet on that.

I don't claim it. It's in the T/A. You should read it sometime...or at least go to a Roadshow.

 

[Diesel-9]

Not having the t/a in front of me it might be hard to explain. It depends on if the carrier is an affiliate or not and who owns the aircraft. The 36 Avro's at Mesaba are part of the 55/90 limit. For example. Mesaba will replace the 36 Avros and add 19 more 76 seat a/c for a total of 55. They can go above that 1 for 1 by adding 77-110 seat a/c at mainline. Compass could have up to 36 as long as the total between the two doesn't exceed 90 unless the mainline adds 77-110 seaters. If they reduce mainline/narrowbody a/c there is a peelback clause where they have to shrink the 76 seaters 1 for 1.

 

[Diesel-9]

p.s. The DC-9's are going to be here for quite awhile. The cargo isn't going anywhere. The Pacific Division routes aren't ours to sell. Route authority isn't transferable. Again, I'm not a lawyer but this always comes up. People more familiar with the 1952 treaty could explain it better. Alot of spin and scare tactics. Checci and Bonderman are searching the capital markets for the next round. NWA control of CAL stock doesn't expire until about 04/28/2008 as the industry will see activity in the coming year or so. P.S.S. Think the t/a will pass 65-35. Most people I talk to and go to the road show and get the facts lean toward a yes. I am still up in the air and reading the legal stuff on voting down, imposing and loosing all they got in the t/a. The cash flow is so strong I think these guys will do anything to get to the end of the year and exit Ch-11 without D.I.P. financing.

 

[320AV8R]

It's been stated to me by 3 or 4 different sources that the DC9s will retire as they time out. They are paid for, cheap, & reliable.

Mgmt's business plan, that they have to sell to investors, for financing, includes certain ASM projections. The DC9s are a large chunk of NWA lift. If Mgmt violates the agreement, by parking all the DC9s, they'd be in default of the financing agreements, & lose the $$$$$. Factor in the SJ delivery rates, etc.... it's unlikely that a large portion of the DC9s will be parked.

320AV8R

 

[NuGuy]

Factor in the SJ delivery rates, etc.... it's unlikely that a large portion of the DC9s will be parked.

320AV8R

This is a very common misconception. Many MANY of the delivery slots of the SJs are held by leasing companies. A deal can be struck with these outfits to start delivery right away.

If anyone thinks they won't start to park DC-9s RIGHT AWAY, they are kidding themselves.

Nu

 

[Diesel-9]

Gouge from people at the meetings, probability of a few older A-320's leases being let go and DC-9's being brought from storage to cover the flying.

 

[320AV8R]

NU-

This is a very common misconception.

I had numerous misconceptions that were clarified at the RS..... this was one of them.

Many MANY of the delivery slots of the SJs are held by leasing companies. A deal can be struck with these outfits to start delivery right away.

Are you stating opinion or fact ? If fact, can you provide a source ?

If anyone thinks they won't start to park DC-9s RIGHT AWAY, they are kidding themselves.

There were a host of reasons given by no less than 5 or 6 individuals why this won't happen. They have been involved in this process for an extended time period, & have first-hand knowledge. I tend to believe them over you.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

NU-


I had numerous misconceptions that were clarified at the RS..... this was one of them.



Are you stating opinion or fact ? If fact, can you provide a source ?



There were a host of reasons given by no less than 5 or 6 individuals why this won't happen. They have been involved in this process for an extended time period, & have first-hand knowledge. I tend to believe them over you.

There is going to be a lot of people that are going to tell us to vote no on the TA for various reasons. They may work for anither carrier and want NWA to die, or they work for one of our regional partners. There are things that I don't personally like in the TA, however I still see no good reason to vote it down.
If you work for one of the airlink partners, it's important to note that just having only compass around is a great risk to NWA management. I see 9E remaining the same, and the future of XJ is uncertain. Just to have compass around is not a good idea since having pissed NWA pilots and pissed off airlinkers is going to create a militant group. They will be looking for theirs once the company starts turning a profit, especially with a flow through. Although it will be a far cry from what we had before, I still think we can once again achieve an industry leading contract.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Although it will be a far cry from what we had before, I still think we can once again achieve an industry leading contract.

Yeah and if every building in town fell down except yours, you'd have skyscraper. It's easy to give away what you never worked for.

 

[TinGoose1]

Once again, another cheerleader for the tallest midget.

-TG

 

[mjs]

Many of you are working under the wrong assumption. There is a clear idea of what the judge will do if this ta is voted down. He allowed the aquisition of the flyi operating certificate.

Unless this ta is approved, NW management CANNOT operate Compass. The previous ta allowed for a third airlink BUT NW management cound NOT give any funding for aircraft. The 3rd airlink had to be financially on its own.

If the judge did not intend to allow NW to operate compass no matter what happens with the ta, he would not allow them to spend the $2 million on the certificate. And the push to have flights in June will result in everything in place by the time voting is finished and the pilots either ratify the ta or the judge imposes new terms on the pilots.

 

[mjs]

for those of you who are going to jump all over me b/c you have no idea about the contect of the previous ta, here it is:

Section C.9.g.(3):
Up to 40 Regional Jet aircraft to be operated under the NW code designator by an air carrier other than Pinnacle, Mesaba or any affiliate of the Company may be added to the 104 maximum set forth in subparagraph C.9.c. above, provided that each such additional Regional Jet must be a Regional Jet which is not (a) operated under the NW code designator as of October 11,2004, or (b) on order or option to the Company or any affiliate of the Company as of October 11, 2004, or (c) ordered or leased by Northwest or any affiliate of the Company after October 11, 2004, or (d) financed in any way by Northwest or any affiliate of the Company. If such aircraft are operated by an airline which also operates, or which has an affiliate which also operates, aircraft certificated with a maximum passenger capacity of 60 seats or more, the airline may operate these Regional Jets using the NW code designator notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1.C.2.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Unless this ta is approved, NW management CANNOT operate Compass. The previous ta allowed for a third airlink BUT NW management cound NOT give any funding for aircraft. The 3rd airlink had to be financially on its own.

When a bankruptcy judge grants a 1113c motion, the company is allowed to impose it's own Terms & Conditions. That means the old contract (and all of it's side letters) are null and void. There is no longer a contract for that employee group.

The agreement you cited dies.

 

[dbrownie]

I am a MSP pilot. Are you suggesting that pilots from other bases don't support the T/A? If so, you need to read more.



Disagree...and I believe the risk/reward ratio favors ratification of the T/A. I've attended a Roadshow and listened to the advisors and experts. Have you?



Have you actually read the document? That's a rhetorical question. If you had, you wouldn't have mentioned it. The name "Compass" was embedded in an old NWA subsidiary filing. (Note: Northwest Cargo is a subsidiary of NWA, Inc. Since you work here, you should probably know that sort of thing) The SEC filing regarding "Compass" and our cargo operation means nothing. They filed to move a name from one subsidiary to another. That's all.



Based on what? Your trick knee? Tea leaves? A "gut feeling"? Fact: NWA published a "parking" schedule for the DC-9 fleet in May, 1999. Since then they have followed that schedule (based on 104,000 cycles on each hull) +/- 5 hulls per year. The only big exception was the retention of the DC-9-10 fleet for 6-months longer than they told us.

From May 1999, when we got the schedule, until 9/11, NWA parked DC-9's as they hit the cycle limit, purchased RJ's for our Airlinks...and hired pilots at the mainline!

Think about that for a minute before you assert facts you know nothing about.

The DC-9's are paid for, and NWA will not get the $$ they need to exit bankruptcy with 1/4 of the fleet parked. DC-9's are about 1/4 of the fleet. It was covered at the Roadshow...



I don't claim it. It's in the T/A. You should read it sometime...or at least go to a Roadshow.

I have read the TA and No I have not been to a road/sales show.

The T/A is over reaching, If you do not think so feel free to keep beating the company drum.

So you think 76 seat airplanes won't be DC-9 replacements, No DC-9s will be parked, Compass means nothing, this T/A is the best we can do and
you are a MSP based capt.

Big surprizes here...

Dave B

 

[800Dog]

Sure. We took a vote and everything.

I believe our managment has considered an injunction too.

What then?

Fight it in the courts. Mass resignation also comes to mind. Grow a pair.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I have read the TA and No I have not been to a road/sales show.

The T/A is over reaching, If you do not think so feel free to keep beating the company drum.

So you think 76 seat airplanes won't be DC-9 replacements, No DC-9s will be parked, Compass means nothing, this T/A is the best we can do and
you are a MSP based capt.

Big surprizes here...

Dave B

Dave, I see that you disagree. What I don't see you offering is anything that resembles analysis or evidence.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I "beat the company drum". Our negotiators delivered this T.A....not the company.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Fight it in the courts. Mass resignation also comes to mind. Grow a pair.

Gee...thanks!

Fortunately, I didn't grow a "pair"...I grew one.

A brain.

I use it to make decisions like this.

You should try it sometimes, it's actually quite useful for pilots.

 

[frjmx328]

http://www.redtailmovie.com/

All those senior NWA guys should watch this. THIS IS WHAT YOU COMPANY HAS TURNED INTO! YOU GUTLESS SWINE! THEY WILL SEND YOUR 747/A330 ASS DOWN THE LINE TOO YOU DAMN IDIOTS!!!

I can hear it now in IAD.... Welcome aboard Northwest flt # yada yada yada, to Amsterdam, operated by Compass.....

Pull your heads out of the sand!!!!

 

[800Dog]

Gee...thanks!

Fortunately, I didn't grow a "pair"...I grew one.

A brain.

I use it to make decisions like this.

You should try it sometimes, it's actually quite useful for pilots.

Actually, we at Delta are facing the same s*** you are facing and I had rather Delta liquidate than see us capitulate. Enjoy your commuter job and your brain that fails to see the obvious.

 

[frjmx328]

Actually, we at Delta are facing the same s*** you are facing and I had rather Delta liquidate than see us capitulate. Enjoy your commuter job and your brain that fails to see the obvious.

Thank you sir! These morons unfortunatly ( the senior ones atleast ) can see nothing more than self preservation at this point. They wil be happy to fly an A320, or an A330, or that whale the 747 if it means saving their skin and selling the junior guy down the river..... In my opinion, ALL NWA PILOTS AE ALL READY SCABS. THEY CROSS A PICKET LINE ON A DAILY BASIS, AND ALPA HAS YET TO PUT A POSITIVE SPIN ON IT! I PERSONALLY HOPE THEY ALL GET PISSED ON AND BURNED AT THE STAKE. I HOPE NWA GOES CH7, AND THESE WORTHLESS SCABS HAVE TO HUNT FOR A NEW JOB. AMFA HAD BALLS, YOU ********************S ARE SIMPLY SCARED....

 

[DTW320]

Thank you sir! These morons unfortunatly ( the senior ones atleast ) can see nothing more than self preservation at this point. They wil be happy to fly an A320, or an A330, or that whale the 747 if it means saving their skin and selling the junior guy down the river..... In my opinion, ALL NWA PILOTS AE ALL READY SCABS. THEY CROSS A PICKET LINE ON A DAILY BASIS, AND ALPA HAS YET TO PUT A POSITIVE SPIN ON IT! I PERSONALLY HOPE THEY ALL GET PISSED ON AND BURNED AT THE STAKE. I HOPE NWA GOES CH7, AND THESE WORTHLESS SCABS HAVE TO HUNT FOR A NEW JOB. AMFA HAD BALLS, YOU ********************S ARE SIMPLY SCARED....

NWA pilots are scabs huh? What "struck" maintenance work for NWA are they performing? I must have missed that memo. Or..........you don't have a clue what the definition of a scab is but you think it adds validity to your position so you throw the label around.

Get a clue. But then you didn't the last time we told you that. Ya know...when we told you that all groups should get in the pool to try and avoid CH11. Yeah thats right....the same time AMFA said that ALPA paycuts should be used to give AMFA a raise.

Oh yeah...when you guys crossed my picket line in '98 did I call you a scab?

Enjoy your AMFA BALLS.

 

[Diesel-9]

Dear 328. NRR. (Time for a new diaper? )

 

[320AV8R]

DTW320-

Take it easy on frjmx328.

He's finally figured it out. AMFA sold him down the river. The union leadership never let the members vote on any proposal. At least we get a vote.

He's probably a little annoyed with the fact that almost 30% of the current mechanics crossed the picket line & are former AMFA. Another 250 have signed up for jobs when they become available. He's probably real far down on the list.

320AV8R

NWA pilots are scabs huh? What "struck" maintenance work for NWA are they performing? I must have missed that memo. Or..........you don't have a clue what the definition of a scab is but you think it adds validity to your position so you throw the label around.

Get a clue. But then you didn't the last time we told you that. Ya know...when we told you that all groups should get in the pool to try and avoid CH11. Yeah thats right....the same time AMFA said that ALPA paycuts should be used to give AMFA a raise.

Oh yeah...when you guys crossed my picket line in '98 did I call you a scab?

Enjoy your AMFA BALLS.