NWA buys Independence Air Op Cert.

[Detroitpilot22]

I doubt pinnacle is going to stay exactly the same? Is there really the need for 126 crjs when you are going to have 70 seat aircraft taking over some of the routes we do, for example, dtw-jfk

 

[Detroitpilot22]

giggidee giggidee, giggidee goo

 

[FlyinPiker]

Sounds like no growth for Pinnacle. And the end of the rumor of using the Big Sky certificate for NewCo. Definitely bad for Mesaba as well. If the Northwest pilots vote for MidAtlantic II, then they will most likely get sold off the same way. The TA is horrible for every redtail pilot on the property.

Wow growth has actually been in your thought process through all of this?? Isn't a decent chunk of your fleet currently up for bid right now?

Good luck to all in this mess...

 

[fam62c]

I don't get this.

I'm getting confused here. NWA is bankrupt, they owe everybody money and they're not going to pay most of it back. They are almost broke and they are fighting for their survival. Now, in the middle of all this they want to spend money to start another division? How do they justify all of the start-up costs necessary to get a new company up and running? They already have an operating certificate and a fully operational company why do they need to duplicate all kinds of functions and personell to operate a second certificate when they can't afford to pay their bills as it is? Who pays for this? Also, what are they going to use to secure the leases on all the new airplanes that they want?

They already have (if ratified) an agreement with the employee groups (pilots anyway) to work at rates that will make the operation of the smaller jets competitive so why not just use the operating certificate, employees, resources and structure that they already have and just operate the EMB's as another aircraft type (airline within an airline)? I can't see how totally reinventing the wheel with a parallell operation is going to save money here; it's just going to increase complexity. For Christ sake, this company owned another carrier (Pinnacle) and spun it off, now they want to start ANOTHER airline when they can least afford to do it? If they really wanted the new operation to be seperate why not have a 3rd party foot the bill for starting the thing up and obtaining the planes or use an existing regional. This seems like a half-baked plan to me that is more likely to hurt Northwest than help it reorganize. I honestly don't know if Northwest has a chance to survive with this kind of thinking.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

The crazy part is that Northwest Airlines is under bankruptcy protection. But Northwest Holdings is actually doing very well... Same sort of deal with Mesaba in bankruptcy and MAIR Holding not. I highly doubt that Northwest Airlines will front the final dollars for the new operating certificate and associated startup costs with a new airline. They'll rely on Northwest Holdings for that.

All in all, the new operating certificate and airline allows NW managment one more tool to whipsaw the regionals, and since the new carrier will be flying larger aircraft, this places direct pressure on the mainline pilot group as well...

When NW spun off 9E, if I recall correctly, it had a different purpose. I think the IPO associated with 9E was to help fund the pension at NW. Well, can't exactly do that again with Pinnacle. So they now need another cash cow to help with the bankruptcy exit financing, ala MidAtlantic. Start a new carrier, place some desirable aircraft on the certificate and later on sell it to the highest bidder. It'll generate a ton of cash for it's desired purpose. Problem is that it corn-holes the employees associated with the sold carrier... But wait, management doesn't care about us anyways...

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I'm getting confused here. NWA is bankrupt, they owe everybody money and they're not going to pay most of it back. They are almost broke and they are fighting for their survival. Now, in the middle of all this they want to spend money to start another division? How do they justify all of the start-up costs necessary to get a new company up and running? They already have an operating certificate and a fully operational company why do they need to duplicate all kinds of functions and personell to operate a second certificate when they can't afford to pay their bills as it is? Who pays for this? Also, what are they going to use to secure the leases on all the new airplanes that they want?

They already have (if ratified) an agreement with the employee groups (pilots anyway) to work at rates that will make the operation of the smaller jets competitive so why not just use the operating certificate, employees, resources and structure that they already have and just operate the EMB's as another aircraft type (airline within an airline)? I can't see how totally reinventing the wheel with a parallell operation is going to save money here; it's just going to increase complexity. For Christ sake, this company owned another carrier (Pinnacle) and spun it off, now they want to start ANOTHER airline when they can least afford to do it? If they really wanted the new operation to be seperate why not have a 3rd party foot the bill for starting the thing up and obtaining the planes or use an existing regional. This seems like a half-baked plan to me that is more likely to hurt Northwest than help it reorganize. I honestly don't know if Northwest has a chance to survive with this kind of thinking.

The parent company of Northwest bought it. NWA is bankrupt not NWA holdings, it's all a big shell game. Holdings is a collection of commercial banks and high dollar investments, they basically have unlimited resources. Airlines aren't in the business of making money, they are in the business of making someone else a lot of money.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah agred NWA management is a bunch of idiots

yeah so when they get ten of those 1:1 aircraft on property, they can sell this new company off, or, as they did with Pinnacle, do a IPO and make money hand over foot. I just hope walstreet will see that the same thing will happpen to that stock as happened to Pinnacle stock.

I'm getting confused here. NWA is bankrupt, they owe everybody money and they're not going to pay most of it back. They are almost broke and they are fighting for their survival. Now, in the middle of all this they want to spend money to start another division? How do they justify all of the start-up costs necessary to get a new company up and running? They already have an operating certificate and a fully operational company why do they need to duplicate all kinds of functions and personell to operate a second certificate when they can't afford to pay their bills as it is? Who pays for this? Also, what are they going to use to secure the leases on all the new airplanes that they want?

They already have (if ratified) an agreement with the employee groups (pilots anyway) to work at rates that will make the operation of the smaller jets competitive so why not just use the operating certificate, employees, resources and structure that they already have and just operate the EMB's as another aircraft type (airline within an airline)? I can't see how totally reinventing the wheel with a parallell operation is going to save money here; it's just going to increase complexity. For Christ sake, this company owned another carrier (Pinnacle) and spun it off, now they want to start ANOTHER airline when they can least afford to do it? If they really wanted the new operation to be seperate why not have a 3rd party foot the bill for starting the thing up and obtaining the planes or use an existing regional. This seems like a half-baked plan to me that is more likely to hurt Northwest than help it reorganize. I honestly don't know if Northwest has a chance to survive with this kind of thinking.

 

[xjhawk]

oh and one more thing.....those of you at MEsaba like i am.....now that it looks like we are out of the picture, it makes total sense to vote NO for sure now. Full pay til the last day!

 

[SEVEN]

I also heard from the Mesaba training department yesterday that the Avro sims in MSP are being removed . Looks like we will be a 49 saab fleet with 450 pilots for a while.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I also heard from the Mesaba training department yesterday that the Avro sims in MSP are being removed . Looks like we will be a 49 saab fleet with 450 pilots for a while.

Yes, the paperwork is finalized to remove the ARJ's from service at NWAlk. It's possible Mesaba is being kept around right now to explore the depths of bankruptcy. If the judge does reject the contract, a work stoppage must come immediately even if an injuction from the court is granted. This will allow more leverage for pilots at other carriers looking to bankruptcy to fix the labor problems.

 

[SEVEN]

Yes, the paperwork is finalized to remove the ARJ's from service at NWAlk. It's possible Mesaba is being kept around right now to explore the depths of bankruptcy. If the judge does reject the contract, a work stoppage must come immediately even if an injuction from the court is granted. This will allow more leverage for pilots at other carriers looking to bankruptcy to fix the labor problems.

Well if that's the case and we are being used as guinney pigs for some test experiment it's time to say NO. We've got nothing too lose. They picked the wrong airline to experiment with the bankruptcy process. Hopefully I'm right.

 

[DoinTime]

The parent company of Northwest bought it. NWA is bankrupt not NWA holdings, it's all a big shell game. Holdings is a collection of commercial banks and high dollar investments, they basically have unlimited resources. Airlines aren't in the business of making money, they are in the business of making someone else a lot of money.

YPF, I would think you would know better considering you claim to have been employed by NW. The parent/holding company of Northwest Airlines is NWAC (Northwest Airlines Corporation). There is no such thing as NWA holdings. NWAC and all of its subsidiaries are currently under bankruptcy protection. The FLYi certificate is being purchased by bankrupt NWAC.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I also heard from the Mesaba training department yesterday that the Avro sims in MSP are being removed . Looks like we will be a 49 saab fleet with 450 pilots for a while.

Any idea where the sim is being moved to?

Guess I'll always be stuck with that SIC only limitation on at least the
BAE-146, AVR-146.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

YPF, I would think you would know better considering you claim to have been employed by NW. The parent/holding company of Northwest Airlines is NWAC (Northwest Airlines Corporation). There is no such thing as NWA holdings. NWAC and all of its subsidiaries are currently under bankruptcy protection. The FLYi certificate is being purchased by bankrupt NWAC.

The structure of NWA:
Corporate Structure & Units

(A) NWA Corp., Holdings and NWA Inc.

Northwest Airlines Corporation is the parent corporation of
Northwest Airlines Holdings Corporation, which, in turn, is
the parent corporation of NWA, Inc. NWA Inc. is the parent
corporation of Northwest Airlines, Inc., and the indirect
parent corporation of the other Debtors as well as certain
non-Debtor entities.

(B) Northwest Airlines

Northwest Airlines, Inc., is the principal operating
subsidiary of NWA Corp. Together with the other Debtors,
Northwest Airlines operates and manages a consolidated global
business with employees, assets and creditors located all
over the world.

(C) NFS

NWA Fuel Services Corporation, a New York corporation with
offices located at 1270 Avenue of the Americas, 6th floor,
New York, New York, operates a jet fuel supply and trading
business. In the course of its business, NFS purchases jet
fuel directly from numerous fuel suppliers and supplies the
fuel to Northwest and to other airlines.

NFS supplies fuel directly to Northwest Airlines' operations
at airports by truck. In addition, NFS arranges for fuel to
be shipped through common carrier pipelines across the United
States to various third party storage facilities located in
proximity to Northwest Airlines' major terminal hubs. NFS
primarily relies upon revenues obtained from Northwest
Airlines to sustain its business operations.

(D) MLT

MLT Inc. is among the largest vacation wholesale companies in
the United States. MLT develops and markets Worry-Free
Vacations that include air transportation, hotel
accommodations, car rentals, ground transportation and
leisure activities. In addition to its Worry-Free Vacations
charter program, MLT develops, markets and supports
Northwest's WorldVacations travel packages to destinations
throughout the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, Europe
and Asia, with air transportation provided primarily on
Northwest or its codeshare partners. During the fiscal year
ended December 31, 2004, MLT had revenues of $469,000,000.

(E) NATCO

Northwest Aerospace Training Corp. provides training and
aircraft simulation services primarily to pilots for
Northwest. NATCO makes all unused time available for sale by
a third party to other airlines, governments and
corporations. The NATCO training facility includes 18 full-
flight simulators and four fixed-base training devices. In
2004, NATCO had approximately $3,565,000 in revenue from the
sale of idle time.

 

[DoinTime]

They are all still bankrupt.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

They are all still bankrupt.

Correct, my mistake, I was thinking of something else. After reading a company email, bankrupt NWA bought it. It will receive approval since newco is part of the restructing plan.

 

[Rossa]

Thanks NWA pilots - You guys are the BIGGEST dimwits out there if you approve this TA!!!!

Think about it: You not only screw the regional guys, but you screw your own pilot group in the short term aswell as the long term!

There is NOTHING beneficial in this TA for you guys OR the Airlinks.

It's unbelievable that you would throw your junior guys under the bus like this - just to benefit a few senior guys - A$$HOLE$!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is the best your negotiating commitee can do, you should kick them to the kerb!!

 

[blackbox]

Thanks NWA pilots - You guys are the BIGGEST dimwits out there if you approve this TA!!!!

Think about it: You not only screw the regional guys, but you screw your own pilot group in the short term aswell as the long term!

There is NOTHING beneficial in this TA for you guys OR the Airlinks.

It's unbelievable that you would throw your junior guys under the bus like this - just to benefit a few senior guys - A$$HOLE$!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is the best your negotiating commitee can do, you should kick them to the kerb!!

wow, those are some big words.....lets just wait and see what the outcome of the TA vote is before we go calling other pilot groups names.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Thanks NWA pilots - You guys are the BIGGEST dimwits out there if you approve this TA!!!!

Think about it: You not only screw the regional guys, but you screw your own pilot group in the short term aswell as the long term!

There is NOTHING beneficial in this TA for you guys OR the Airlinks.

It's unbelievable that you would throw your junior guys under the bus like this - just to benefit a few senior guys - A$$HOLE$!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is the best your negotiating commitee can do, you should kick them to the kerb!!

Mesaba would be in this position no matter what happens. Management threw you guys under the bus. As NWA pilots, we are just reacting to what management is throwing at us.

 

[XJohXJ]

Divide and Conquer always wins!