NWA and DAL MECs dropped...

JAM-BRO

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IMHO, the NWA and DAL MECs, as well as the respective Negotiation Committees, dropped the ball on this one... Why are they calling this a status and category award? It's a relative seniority award. Are you telling me that we could not come up with this award on our own? Did we need this stupid process? What a crock....

I feel this has been the biggest negative of this whole merger. It cost every one of us involved, a lot of money. We lost a 2% raise in pay, a 2% increase in DC payments and possibly a higher stock award. Plus, add to that the money wasted on a "war chest" required by each side to hire lawyers to deal with the arbitration process.

ALPA leaders on both sides did all of us a disservice. Not pointing fingers but making the point that we could have come up with this on our own.

Oh well, water under the bridge now... I believe we have a stronger carrier now... Let's make it a great place to fly at...
 

~~~^~~~

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I respectfully disagree. I voted against the JPWA and am not a fan of the SLI result, but, think Reps from both sides did an outstanding job at making the best out of a situation management was going to execute with, or without, pilots' participation.

Failing to staple Compass and rationalize Section 1 was a failure. But that wasn't the entire test.

IMHO the MEC's both get A-, at least a 90%.
 

Sedona16

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On the point of MEC leadership I think we need an entirely different group leading us into the next contract negotiations in four years. I get a little uncomfortable each time (like today at the conference call) managment thanks individuals from the MEC. There starts to become this brotherly love thing where the new found friend is afraid to say what he is really thinking for fear of offending his new VIP friend who is continually praising him in public. As always we will need people who can negotiate but also get tough and not back down when the time comes. I promise you even if Delta is making 2 billion plus a year in profits it will be a bloody battle when you talk about "restoration" that I know a lot of Delta guys rightfully feel should take place, especially with the loss of the pensions.
 
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JAM-BRO

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I respectfully disagree. I voted against the JPWA and am not a fan of the SLI result, but, think Reps from both sides did an outstanding job at making the best out of a situation management was going to execute with, or without, pilots' participation.

Failing to staple Compass and rationalize Section 1 was a failure. But that wasn't the entire test.

IMHO the MEC's both get A-, at least a 90%.

The company needed scope to be relaxed to do the merger, so pilot participation was needed...
 

propdog

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I think both the MECs did a great job considering the complexity of the issue. Now it is time to unite and be a formidable power moving forward.
 

whymeworry?

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I fully agree. ALPA Merger Policy was NOT followed.

This is what annoys me about ALPA. They say one thing while talking out the side of their mouth about something else.
 

captairbusbb

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I fully agree. ALPA Merger Policy was NOT followed.

This is what annoys me about ALPA. They say one thing while talking out the side of their mouth about something else.
Okay........ALPA Merger Policy was not followed.

Call Steve Bradford and Lee Seeham, They will be happy to have all malcontents petition the NMB for representation by USAPA.

When you lose all other benefits that ALPA offers, you can have your day in court sueing and countersueing and be represented by a dysfuctional group of individuals who have all the answers. But when the judge sees through all the BS, you'll find that throwing your ALPA representation off the island is not in your best interest.

I'm just stating facts as they have been presented to the US/AWA merger.........not a pretty sight, but make your own assessment of the situation, and go from there.

Captairbusbb
 

NuGuy

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I fully agree. ALPA Merger Policy was NOT followed.

This is what annoys me about ALPA. They say one thing while talking out the side of their mouth about something else.
Judging from your stats, you're a DAL guy...in what way do you think that ALPA policy was not followed?

Nu
 

Superpilot92

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Dunno?
Judging from your stats, you're a DAL guy...in what way do you think that ALPA policy was not followed?

Nu
He's not a DAL pilot, he is a CAL pilot.
 

Max Powers

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I have some friends hired at DAL in '07 before merger announcement, one of them just prior. Where do they stand on this list?
 

hockeypilot44

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I have some friends hired at DAL in '07 before merger announcement, one of them just prior. Where do they stand on this list?
Everyone's relative percentage is about the same. It was basically a straight ration merger with a little bit of tweaking.
 

twepilot

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RECALL THE MEC"S NOW...RECALL THE BOD NOW...Whoops thought this was the airtran boards sorry.

RV
 

jetjockey#1

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I respectfully disagree. I voted against the JPWA and am not a fan of the SLI result, but, think Reps from both sides did an outstanding job at making the best out of a situation management was going to execute with, or without, pilots' participation.

Failing to staple Compass and rationalize Section 1 was a failure. But that wasn't the entire test.

IMHO the MEC's both get A-, at least a 90%.
I guess you must fly narrow body for DAL. As a junior guy if you happen to be flying a widebody our days are counted. The moment they move, let's say 15 7er from ATL to a different base, it becomes an open bid and chances are 10 year guys at NWA who had no chance of flying a widebody at NWA before, they will jump all over them. My union should've had this foresight and not settle for anything else than 5 year fences.

I give NWA union A+ they got a much better contract for their pilot group than our union got for us, and they still have their frozen pension, which DAL is paying for, contributing to it. As far as seniority is concerned, NWA can hold much better equipment with this new list. I don't think a 98 NWA hire could be mid way up the list in a widebody before at NWA, guess what, he is now.

DAL union failed miserably the DAL pilots. Yes great we get equity in the company, but we have no say in how it's distributed, or when, or how. We got a much lower payraise that NWA did in the contract, and they failed to protect the bottom 30% of the list. Let's just hope Lee steps aside, and the NWA MEC brings the new DAL where it belongs.
 

JOPILOT

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DAL prior to merged list = 91.0 %
DAL/NWA = 90.7 %

-Company most likely moving my category out of SLC, and agreement failed to fence the other two categories in base. I am not excited about the outcome of relative seniority with a company that was on its way to furlough prior to merger announcement, but very pleased that until next fall any furloughs that originate from parking DC-'s will come from NWA side, and that is all I can ask for given the focus of the arbitrators obviously was to protect the senior pilots on the Northwest's list.

If you were on the bottome 15-30% of the DAL list and are in an Int. Category you just lost your QOL, Thanks Lee.

All in all I think the award is what it is and I am very happy this is over, now lets buy another company with furloughs on the way and start all this bs over again, hopefully our leadership can sort out a simple list by themselves this time and leave the pull and plug artists to plug themselves!

JP
 

regionalcap

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I guess you must fly narrow body for DAL. As a junior guy if you happen to be flying a widebody our days are counted. The moment they move, let's say 15 7er from ATL to a different base, it becomes an open bid and chances are 10 year guys at NWA who had no chance of flying a widebody at NWA before, they will jump all over them. My union should've had this foresight and not settle for anything else than 5 year fences.

I give NWA union A+ they got a much better contract for their pilot group than our union got for us, and they still have their frozen pension, which DAL is paying for, contributing to it. As far as seniority is concerned, NWA can hold much better equipment with this new list. I don't think a 98 NWA hire could be mid way up the list in a widebody before at NWA, guess what, he is now.

DAL union failed miserably the DAL pilots. Yes great we get equity in the company, but we have no say in how it's distributed, or when, or how. We got a much lower payraise that NWA did in the contract, and they failed to protect the bottom 30% of the list. Let's just hope Lee steps aside, and the NWA MEC brings the new DAL where it belongs.
You have to admit that the junior guys are pretty fortunate to be on the ER as a new hire in the first place. Even without the merger, there are plenty of senior guys that could bid over to the ER and you would lose that QOL. I agree that there should have been more fences though.
 

Superpilot92

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Dunno?
-Company most likely moving my category out of SLC, and agreement failed to fence the other two categories in base. I am not excited about the outcome of relative seniority with a company that was on its way to furlough prior to merger announcement, but very pleased that until next fall any furloughs that originate from parking DC-'s will come from NWA side, and that is all I can ask for given the focus of the arbitrators obviously was to protect the senior pilots on the Northwest's list.

If you were on the bottome 15-30% of the DAL list and are in an Int. Category you just lost your QOL, Thanks Lee.

All in all I think the award is what it is and I am very happy this is over, now lets buy another company with furloughs on the way and start all this bs over again, hopefully our leadership can sort out a simple list by themselves this time and leave the pull and plug artists to plug themselves!

JP
You are proving that you have very little insight on Northwest Airlines. Some of you paint NWA as a dieing airline when in fact we made as much if not more money even though we were a smaller airline. Also we were hiring up to the merger announcement not about to furlough :rolleyes:

there is no need to pull the drama queen stuff, its over and time to move on. Cheers :beer:
 

ACL65PILOT

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Super, fact is that many of the guys I know there that are mid level commute and are drooling over an international aircraft no matter where it is base.
The way I see it, it is fine, most of us new guys are getting to do something that we KNEW we should not see for 10+ years, now that is a reality. Stinks, but now that your original DAL brethren saw that their was enough reserve fodder below them they were finally bidding up. One way or another your QOL was going to go in the toilet on the ER.
This way you WILL get it back sooner.
I am ready for whatever is thrown our way. It is what it is, and it is done. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I much rather be here than any other US domestic airline.
Five years from now you will be on a seniority freight train that will not stop for the rest of your career's here. Just have a little patience. Instant gratification is great, but when you whine about not keeping it, you sound spoiled. Be happy you have a paycheck.

PS this does not apply to the dead zoners that will be bumped from heir wide body chairs.
 

~~~^~~~

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The way I see it, it is fine, most of us new guys are getting to do something that we KNEW we should not see for 10+ years, now that is a reality.
I do not see how you can look at what you hold today and say that is not a reality. To me it is much more surprising that a group of pilots will go from $68 to $105 overnight and be able to take your job.

Status quo is your ability to continue to fly, what you fly, in the same relative position & pay. This award fails that test. The fact that the MAJORITY of this airline is out of position for what their seniority will hold at SOC is a clear indication of that fact. At its core, this decision fails to abide by ALPA merger policy ( and of course it does not have to ).

There was a huge demographic difference between DAL and NWA new hires. NWA was not worth leaving a regional for unless you were very young and very mobile.

The Delta MEC took the high road. It cost the Delta pilots, but made the overall Company stronger while preserving the union. ALPA did a fine job, Delta is a great Company, but no longer a first choice at a DC9B slot.

Fred Ex is getting 757's.
 
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~~~^~~~

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DAL union failed miserably the DAL pilots.
Jet I hear you, but you are equating effort with results. The Delta MEC took the high road and lost by virtue of the arbitration panel "splitting the Baby up the middle."

The Delta MEC was not wrong to try to accomplish the SLI with integrity.

Your frustration is understandable, very much so.
 

DTW320

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To me it is much more surprising that a group of pilots will go from $68 to $105 overnight and be able to take your job.
I must be missing something....I'm looking at the new contract rates and I can't see who you are referring to....even without the "able to take your job" comment.
 
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