NWA and DAL MECs dropped...

[~~~^~~~]

Longevity and equipment bump, or just ask your FO, they should be able to explain it once you unscrew them from the ceiling.

 

[DTW320]

Longevity and equipment bump, or just ask your FO, they should be able to explain it once you unscrew them from the ceiling.

Not gettin off that easy fins....who is going from $68 to $105 overnight? Be specific.

 

[NuGuy]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I do not see how you can look at what you hold today and say that is not a reality. To me it is much more surprising that a group of pilots will go from $68 to $105 overnight and be able to take your job.

Status quo is your ability to continue to fly, what you fly, in the same relative position & pay. This award completely fails that test. The fact that the MAJORITY of this airline is out of position for what their seniority will hold at SOC is a clear indication of that fact. At its core, this decision fails to abide by ALPA merger policy ( and of course it does not have to ).

We have different theories on how the Company will adjust to such a large rush to the schoolhouse if airplanes are moved.

There was a huge demographic difference between DAL and NWA new hires. NWA was not worth leaving a regional for unless you were very young and very mobile. Frankly for many Delta new hires, there are better opportunities elsewhere - they would be well advised to see what their experience an education can get them with other career opportunities.

The Delta MEC took the high road. It cost the Delta pilots, but made the overall Company stronger while preserving the union. ALPA did a fine job, Delta is a great Company, but no longer a first choice at a DC9B or A320 slot.

FedEx is getting 757's.

Heyas Fins,

The arbitrators sought a balance between NWA's older group with more attrition (which they accepted as fact) versus DAL's relatively younger group that had been displaced upward some years back.

With this situation, they could award an unlimited amount of attrition via a dynamic list or they could have front loaded the award with what seemed to them as a reasonable number. They chose the later.

They were, in essence, saying "hey NWA guys...you have a bunch of older pilots that will be gone in 5-10 years, so here's your chance to run with what we give you. DAL guys, it doesn't matter for you,
'cause you're younger and will be around longer". That's why there were no fences around the mid-sized widbodies.

Obviously some people get lost in the demographics. NWA has some older guys, that despite the slight upward shift, will never see the WB left seat they would have had pre-merger. And from what you're saying, you guys take the same kind of hit with a different section of the list.

You could do what ACL suggests, and wait it out if you have the time. But it is ridiculous to think of the 320 as a slave barge, and DTW is not a terrible place to commute to, or fly out of (no delays, good, inexpensive commuter hotels, etc).

It is what it is.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

Specifically, your furloughed pilots who got their longevity back (which I think they deserved) and now will be able to bid into widebody international flying.

Again, I don't begrudge them anything - good for them.

 

[DTW320]

Specifically, your furloughed pilots who got their longevity back (which I think they deserved) and now will be able to bid into widebody international flying.

Again, I don't begrudge them anything - good for them.

OK....now I'm with you.....I wasn't thinking of that situation. But I'm not sure I agree that NW guys in that group will be able to hold widebody Intl after SOC. How can you convince me of that?

 

[~~~^~~~]

NWA put out a good list that shows you what the pilots around you are holding. The pilots I'm referring to are middle lower in the pack of Delta 767 pilots.

Delta new hires hold the 767ER, some hold block with weekends off to Western Europe. Why do you think your pilots could not beat them in the bidding when the airplanes get moved around?

Delta pilots also tended to be folks who lived in Delta bases. Folks like me will do anything possible not to commute and with a side job that pays more than flying, commuting just is not an option. When these airplanes get moved around we anticipate the Delta pilots will try to stay in base, while the NWA pilots (who are more likely to be commuting anyway) will be more likely to chase the big airplanes. At least that is the theory that makes the most sense.

We will see once bidding actually starts.

 

[Kroll]

Specifically, your furloughed pilots who got their longevity back (which I think they deserved) and now will be able to bid into widebody international flying.

Again, I don't begrudge them anything - good for them.

Well this furloughed guy spent close to 6 years benched while many of the Delta 2007 hire are now senior to me (Who started their airline careers during the 2001 furloughs). I lost close to 700 numbers. Ask the first Delta guy hired in 2007 if he made out ok. He jumped ahead of 2000 NWA hires. I was to hold WB captain for years w/o the merger........I bet the best I will hold now will be 757 captain. I think the list sucks donkey balls. From my perspective guys in the bottom 9% of NWA got screwed. ( Can you hear the violin playing) Its over though. There is not a dam thing I can do about it.

So what I'm getting at is it sucks for a lot of us. Delta and NWA ppl...........some guys it worked out ok. It just depends on where you are on the list. This is what we want though......and now we can together make this a better place for all of us.

As far a bidding widebody.....some will do this but I think you may be surprized. There is a reason why your W/B flying is so junior.

K-Roll

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Double-post.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

You know what, I've tried articulate a point about three times now and have had to come back an delete it all due to the rambling. So... Suffice it to say...

Good luck to all of us.... the screwed (on both sides), the lucky (on both sides), and the largely indifferent (on both sides). My sixth sense says we're going to have far more important things than career expectations, relative seniority, and date of hire to worry about sooner than we would like. Here's hoping that we can all move forward like the professionals that we are from here on out.

Looking forward to working with all you pre-merger DAL guys (even General Lee, who I strongly suspect is the Delta pilot who is rumored to live up the street from me.... Bar's open at the brick Cape Cod with the white picket fence any time, dude...)

From here on out our failure to work together only puts us in peril, ladies and gents. Enough said.

 

[General Lee]

You know what, I've tried articulate a point about three times now and have had to come back an delete it all due to the rambling. So... Suffice it to say...

Good luck to all of us.... the screwed (on both sides), the lucky (on both sides), and the largely indifferent (on both sides). My sixth sense says we're going to have far more important things than career expectations, relative seniority, and date of hire to worry about sooner than we would like. Here's hoping that we can all move forward like the professionals that we are from here on out.

Looking forward to working with all you pre-merger DAL guys (even General Lee, who I strongly suspect is the Delta pilot who is rumored to live up the street from me.... Bar's open at the brick Cape Cod with the white picket fence any time, dude...)

From here on out our failure to work together only puts us in peril, ladies and gents. Enough said.

Hey, we are on the same side now, and I look forward to working with you guys too. Do you live in North ATL?

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I've read how some guys say it's screwed up and sucks now at DAL, but I think it's probably better than USA Jet.

cliff
YIP

PS-I know 3 guys that fly for NWA, and live in DTW. They will fly ANYTHING to stay in DTW and not commmute.

PPS-Was DAL or NWA "better" before the merger? It depends. I thought NWA was better, because of where I live relative to the NWA basing.

 

[Speedbird34]

Hey, we are on the same side now, and I look forward to working with you guys too. Do you live in North ATL?

Bye Bye---General Lee

Agree with the General 100%. It is what it is. We should fight for hazard pay in Africa after the India attack. As we expand there and all those rat holes around the world we may face more attacks. It may not be a bad time to go domestic. God has a way of taking care of his own. I am sure my Northwest brothers will be happy to take a bullet for the new Delta. Welcome to our world brothers and I am sure you have the courage.:laugh:

 

[~~~^~~~]

It's good to read the positive comments from pilots on both sides.

The silver lining that ACL pointed out, is that displacements will be pay protected.

 

[ExAF]

Not Really

Specifically, your furloughed pilots who got their longevity back (which I think they deserved) and now will be able to bid into widebody international flying.

Again, I don't begrudge them anything - good for them.

I'm one and not so. Won't be able to bid WB. Still too junior with DAL guys hired years after me being senior to me. However, I still think after reading the merger opinion, this is about as fair as it could be. Not saying I like it by a long shot, just that it is pretty fair overall. I refuse to let it eat at me. It's over, it's a done deal, time to move on and conquer the world. If anyone out there is senior to me...feel free to stay angry and let it eat at you. I'll be standing by to move up 1 after you stroke out or have that anxiety heart attack.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ExAF and others,

Your wide body options have grown. As you look at this, you should be able to hold anything if you are willing to commute. Also, a 757 is a WB at Delta. One leg on a 767, the next two on 757 equipment and a 767 leg home.

The list came in while I was traveling - first blush was that it destroyed status quo for the Delta hires. Over the long term things look better as a result of attrition and fleet growth. Of course in this business I'd rather have my cake now and many NWA pilots see it the same way. They plan on using the credit they got for attrition in pull out plug in immediately to bid the largest aircraft they can hold.

Personally, I just want to hold a home base.

 

[nonstop]

ExAF and others,

Your wide body options have grown. As you look at this, you should be able to hold anything if you are willing to commute. Also, a 757 is a WB at Delta. One leg on a 767, the next two on 757 equipment and a 767 leg home.

The list came in while I was traveling - first blush was that it destroyed status quo for the Delta hires. Over the long term things look better as a result of attrition and fleet growth. Of course in this business I'd rather have my cake now and many NWA pilots see it the same way. They plan on using the credit they got for attrition in pull out plug in immediately to bid the largest aircraft they can hold.

Personally, I just want to hold a home base.

At NWA there was only about 170 numbers seperating the most junior person in the company (747 SO) with 320 FO, DC-9 FO and 757 FO. In other words I don't think you'll see a large move by NWA guys to bid 75/76 because they all (short of the last 170) could have held it before. The pay difference percentage wise between all those positions are about the same as they were despite the fact the 76 is now included in the category.

Just like you said at the end there, more than anything we'll see people realigning to be closer to a base of their choice. I bet NYC remains the junior base. It will be the east coast commuter haven, and the place to go to bid into higher paying positions earlier than you could anywhere else (if that's your thing).

 

[RedRum]

Longevity and equipment bump, or just ask your FO, they should be able to explain it once you unscrew them from the ceiling.

NWA FO here...

What ceiling do you think I need to be unscrewed from?

Everytime I look at this seniority list, I can't help but think of they guy you hired last year who is senior to me now. Just what makes you think a guy hired last year should be senior to me. (7 years difference, but the same relative seniority which is what this was based upon so I understand it from that angle)

I have been furloughed over 5 years. Heck, when I was on furlough, like most of your pilots, they were living the high life as a captain at the regionals.

We are all in this together. You didn't give the NWA FO's anything. I am not excited at all for the outcome of this arbitration except for one thing.... IT IS OVER and I am looking forward to working with Delta pilots.

I think you are in the minority when you say that the NWA FOs feel like they got a windfall on this SLI.

 

[PinnacleDude]

As an admitted outsider, I think the list is about as fair as you could possibly get considering the differences in the number of pilots, equipment, dates of hire, etc. I thought both MEC's worked very hard to protect their pilots. You never can tell what an arbitrator is going to do and that is a risk when you go to them. Nobody got totally screwed, and nobody really got a tremendous windfall. How is this not adhering to the ALPA merger policy?

Some NWA guys did a little bit better, some Delta guys did a little bit better. Some won, some lost. It is what it is. In a merger of this size it is not possible to satisfy everyone.

It is my opinion that the "New Delta" is in a position to really grow and profit as a much stronger combined airline which is better for both groups. So you lost .2% on the list or you gave up a little money for the other guys to have a good contract too. You all are going to make out in the long run by being employed at this company.

PDudes humble opinion. Aren't you glad you are not at UAL or LCC.

 

[holmie]

Moving On

Another NWA FO here with a take on things. I was a Spring 2000 hire, furloughed 4.5 years and am on mil lv at the present. I feel that things for me could have been alot worse. I fell under DAL guys hired 15 mo after me. Silver lining is the credit we received for being on the street. So the consolation is getting paid more than a guy senior to me. For a guy like me and many others in their mid 40's now and down near the bottom, it may take me another 12 years to upgrade and no chance ever of wide body capt. Glad it's over and hope their isn't another wave of layoffs. Living in a van down by the river isn't that great.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Like I said. Yep we Junior DAL guys are going to go through another training cycle. Guess what it is done with deal with it and move on.
I am. MSP here I come!