NW Council 20 wants to reject TA

[NuGuy]

4. He voted against receiving a Pension Legislation update at the last MEC meeting. Yikes! Hull breech!

I heard his presentation on his "no" recommendation. It was remarkably bereft of a PLAN in the event we heed his recommendation.

You know this is your typical half truth that you spin on the webboard...

In reality Jon didn't vote against the pension update, but WHO WAS PRESENTING IT. Name Duane Woerth, who has a vested interest in seeing this POS pass. The same guy who was taking to Steenland behind the backs of the NWA MEC to negotiate pension changes.

Oh, the same guy who hasn't taken a single pay cut since this whole mess started.

I've seen the plans posted by DTW20 for SMALL changes in the TA and they seem reasonable.

Nu

 

[Occam's Razor]

The pro Ta guys expect the Union to hold the company line. They have faith that the company knows what it is doing.

"faith"? You're kidding, right? I believe the actions of our company are predictable. Nobody is asking for your "faith".

Look how fast NWA bought "Compass" they also transfered our profitable freight dept to it.

At some point you're going to have to get smart on this stuff. Instead of shooting from the hip...and being wrong!...how about doing just the minimum amount of research? Posting incorrect assertions makes you look stupid. When you look stupid it reflects poorly on those who wear the same uniform as you...like me.

You don't have to agree with me. But I do expect you to try to be accurate.

Here is page 149 of the DOT application for Compass Airlines:
________________________________________________________________
Narrative History and Description of Compass Airlines, Inc.
As described in Exhibit A-8, Compass Airlines, Inc. (“Compass”) is a Delaware
corporation, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Northwest Airlines Corporation (through two intermediate holding companies) and a sister company of Northwest Airlines, Inc. The entity now registered as Compass Airlines, Inc. was originally incorporated on June 8, 2000 as Northwest Airlines Cargo, Inc., a Delaware corporation. Since the date of its incorporation, Northwest Airlines Cargo, Inc. has not been an operating company and has not transacted any business.’ However, on September 14, 2005, Northwest Airlines Corporation and its subsidiaries, including Northwest Airlines Cargo, Inc., filed for
bankruptcy protection under chapter 1 1 of the United States Bankruptcy Code, see In re Northwest Airlines Corporation. et al., Chapter 1 1 Case No.05-17930 (ALG), pending in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York. On March 15, 2006, the name of Northwest Airlines Cargo, Inc. was changed to Compass Airlines. Compass is now being established as an airline operating regional jet service as part of Northwest Airlines’ network. This process includes Compass’ acquisition of certain assets from the estate of Independence Air, Inc., as set forth in the Asset Purchase Agreement in Exhibit A-1 . Compass will initially operate one
(1) 50-seat CRJ-200 aircraft, and it is anticipated that Compass’ fleet will grow to include at least thirty-six (36) seventy-six seat regional jet aircraft within five years. Compass’ current board of directors and officers are as described in Exhibit A-7.

1.Northwest Airlines Cargo, Inc. was originally established to market Northwest’s cargo services, but Northwest’s cargo transportation business has always been operated as part of Northwest Airlines, Inc. and that will continue to be the case.

2.Bankruptcy counsel for Northwest Airlines Corporation will notify the Bankruptcy Court that Northwest Airlines Cargo, Inc.’s name has been changed to Compass Airlines, Inc.
________________________________________________________________
[I added some emphasis so you wouldn't miss it]

Essentially, NWA needed to place the new Compass airlines under NWA, Inc. The Cheapest way to do that was to use an existing subsidiary of NWA, Inc. that operates aircraft. That is the Cargo division. The Compass name has been ours since June, 2000. The first footnote is NWA's affidavit to the government on what the future holds for the Cargo division.

I no longer trust our union. Look at the way they are comig down on the ones who voice out aginst the Ta.

Do you have any examples of how ALPA has been "coming down" anyone opposed to the T/A? Please be specific. I think you're making it up, and would like you to prove that ALPA is doing anything to stifle opponents of the T/A. PM me with some names so I can talk to the pilots about the abuse they've suffered for their opposition.

This Ta will be a disaster for NWA alpa and any Blue book pilot.

Since I am a Blue Book pilot too, you've scored a perfect "0" on your post.

Better luck next time!

 

[Occam's Razor]

You know this is your typical half truth that you spin on the webboard...

In reality Jon didn't vote against the pension update, but WHO WAS PRESENTING IT. Name Duane Woerth, who has a vested interest in seeing this POS pass.

Forgive me for getting my facts absolutely straight on this...but I talked to Jon directly about it. He acknowledged he DID vote against having Duane brief the MEC on the status of the pension legislation. Duane had just been on Capital Hill, and had the latest information on the Bill.

I'd be interested in hearing your reasons why any representative of the pilots would not want to hear the latest information from the person they tasked with getting the information?

If you think that is "spin", then please list the persons who would know MORE about the status of the legislation.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I thought the sale of the Cargo company was always part of the exit financing deal.

 

[320AV8R]

I heard his presentation on his "no" recommendation. It was remarkably bereft of a PLAN in the event we heed his recommendation.

Razor-

I heard him speak also, which lasted maybe 4 minutes. He then stated he had to leave quickly. This was after a 3 hour presentation regarding the intricacies of the whole TA.

Over 80% of his reasons for rejection were explained in the preceding 3 hour presentation. For example; he's against the duration. It was explained quite throughly by several people, that the duration was a requirement for financing. Period. His SJET & other arguments were also addressed, and a lot of misconceptions cleared up prior to his remarks. It seems like he was oblivious to the preceding 3 hour power point presentation given by no fewer than 6 individuals. He did not offer any alternative.

I am the first to honor anyone's opinion, if it agrees with mine or not. In fact, a different viewpoint is healthy. But I believe he formed his opinion without examining a lot of information that he was privy to. I'm not saying that his opinion is wrong, just that it is based on things that were explained differently by numerous people, & may be more emotional than pragmatic.

320AV8R

 

[AA717driver]

When ALPA President Duane Woerth was recently asked why our ALPA pilots have not fared better in the 1113c process, he indicated we would never get a better result as long as pilot groups continued to accept these types of negotiated terms.

ARE YOU $H1TT1NG ME?!!!! Yeah, Duane, you're about 6 years too late. Where was this pearl of wisdom when YOUR boy was advising the TWA pilots to waive their scope rather than chance 1113c?

Oops! Sorry, USAir and UAL, guess I shouldn't have had the ALPA attorneys advise you to negotiate away your pay and workrules. Sorry 'bout that guys.

Nothing's going to change (ie. stop the slide) until Duane takes a pay cut--a 100% pay cut! TC

 

[NuGuy]

I'd be interested in hearing your reasons why any representative of the pilots would not want to hear the latest information from the person they tasked with getting the information?

If you think that is "spin", then please list the persons who would know MORE about the status of the legislation.

The only thing Duane wants to do is spead FUD. As in the past, he would try to link the passage of this TA with the security of the pension plan, when in fact one has nothing to do with the other.

Passage of this TA in no way guarentees the DB plan.

Besides, I'm guessing Duane's "friends" have cut themselves another deal, since the vote on the pension reform as mysteriously been delayed until AFTER the deadline for the vote.

Nu

 

[320AV8R]

The only thing Duane wants to do is spead FUD.

I had FUD in college. It developed into a nasty rash and..............

Passage of this TA in no way guarentees the DB plan.

Ding..ding...ding...ding.... you are correct, sir.

Besides, I'm guessing Duane's "friends" have cut themselves another deal, since the vote on the pension reform as mysteriously been delayed until AFTER the deadline for the vote.

Duane's friends are set. I'll be livin' in a van down by the river, & they'll be wipin' their fannies with more money than I make.

320AV8R

 

[81Horse]

<sigh>

The Spouse and I took the Little Unit to Disneyland this week, so we wouldn't have to think about this sh!t for a while. The Spouse plans to vote NO; we have many friends of all persuasions (Red, Green, Blue), and they're about evenly divided right now.

With the pension legislation on the back burner again, one can make no predictions about the DB plan. And the DC plan sucks mightily. Still, I would personally not make the assumptions about Judge Gropper that Ray Miller makes. I think the MEC has veered perilously close to bad-faith bargaining by failing to endorse the TA, and sending it out to the membership for an up or down. After multiple extensions, I can't see the judge being inclined to send the parties back for more negotiating.

But, that's just me. And what the hell do I know? Mongo only pawn in game of life.

And Miller's point about refusing to leave footprints on the backs and shoulders of junior pilots is poignant -- though possibly quixotic. And I know Razor will know what I mean.

 

[Occam's Razor]

The only thing Duane wants to do is spead FUD.

Disagree.

As in the past, he would try to link the passage of this TA with the security of the pension plan, when in fact one has nothing to do with the other.

Agree. Have you heard him say that? Have you heard anyone else report that he has said that?

Passage of this TA in no way guarentees the DB plan.

Agree.

Besides, I'm guessing Duane's "friends" have cut themselves another deal, since the vote on the pension reform as mysteriously been delayed until AFTER the deadline for the vote.

I don't think it was "mysterious". The House Majority Leader (a self-professed anti-Labor dude) has slid it on the schedule until May.

Why don't you call him and Git 'r done?