NW ALPA to stand up for Scope

General Lee

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Thirty days is a very short period of time," McClain said. Northwest has been seeking cuts since early 2003, although pilots agreed to preliminary concessions last fall.

McClain said pilots will have to sacrifice to keep Northwest flying. But on the key issue of who flies some of Northwest's mid-sized jets, an agreement could be elusive. The pilots contract says that all planes with 70 or more seats must be flown by Northwest pilots, while Northwest has long sought to give more of that flying to its regional carriers, where pilots earn less.

"I don't see how we go there," McClain said. He said the union is open to discussing lower pay for flying smaller jets, but they would still have to be Northwest pilots.

"We're not just going to walk away from our job protections," he said.




Let's see if Dalpa will.......


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Butters

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Let's see if they still feel that way when they have to choose between pension and scope.

For the record, I hope they keep their scope. I just don't think they will keep both and unfortunately I think pensions will win.

Good luck, NWA drivers.
 

Redmeat

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General Lee said:
"We're not just going to walk away from our job protections," he said.

That's what I'm talkin 'bout Willis.

Time to play HARD BALL.
 

Jimdandy

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Have fun trying to negotiate with a bankruptcy judge.

If it goes as far as that your only recourse will be to strike once your new contract is forced upon the labor group.

Perhaps if you would of swallowed your pride and allowed some sort of j4j deal you wouldn't be faced with this. But look out here comes MESA. I saw this happing years ago!!!

Anyone willing to place odds on those 50 year old plus senior guys will they be willing to give up a bit of scope for even less pay.

I'm betting 1 to 2.7 against
 

Redmeat

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You XJ/9E guys are hilarious. You continually "dis" mainline and then at the end of all your posts you put in "hope the best for you guys'.


No you don't.
 

General Lee

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The quote came from the NW MEC chair. Everyone knows the pensions are toast anyway. NW and DL want 25 years from Congress to fund them, and Congress so far as agreed to 14 years. Therefore, I think Scope will be the highest priority issue. They obviously want the jobs, regardless of the costs. IF they give up the larger RJs now, they will have to give up more later. I hope National ALPA sees this too.

The pensions are toast. Say that ten times fast Jimmy Dandy.


Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--we just had 2500 captains leave with half of their pensions in a lump sum. Will I give up more so they can get the other half? No.
 
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Give up Scope = Saving Pensions ……… if you are a pilot who got your MBA from your local FBO

One of the few things they taught me in college was correlation. Giving up scope has never saved pensions because there is NO correlation. If ALPA gives up scope, it will not influence whether management will terminate a pension. Whether they terminate a pension is related to external factors unrelated to scope. Most likely it will be related to if they can freeze the pension and create a defined contribution plan....pending congressional legislation.

Question #1

U.S. Airways gave up scope to save pensions = Pensions got the axe
United gave up scope to save pensions = Pensions got the axe
Northwest gives up scope to save pensions = (select answer from below)

a. Northwest pilots get significant increase in defined benefit pension funding
b. Northwest Pilots get recalled in massive numbers
c. Pensions get the axe
d. Jim wins powerball
 

Rook

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Redmeat said:
You XJ/9E guys are hilarious. You continually "dis" mainline and then at the end of all your posts you put in "hope the best for you guys'.


No you don't.

Don't generalize all of us. I for one hate the fact that we're 'growing' (now shrinking I guess) only because that means that I'll be flying the CRJ even longer now. This is a public board and a lot of people beeotch and moan about RJ vs. Mainline, Mil vs. Civ, but in the long run I hate to see any airline suffering. I also know that without mainline I wouldn't have a job. Do I feel good about RJ's supplementing mainline flying? Heck no! But at the same time, I have a job to do until I'm fortunate enough to leave, or NWA dangles the carrot at another regional besides XJ or 9E. Good luck to all of us.Peace,Rook
 

LearLove

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General Lee said:
IF they give up the larger RJs now, they will have to give up more later. I hope National ALPA sees this too.

I agree, it better to get the equipment on the property first then work on bringing up pay/work rules because you can't negociate to improve on something if you don't have it.
 
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Ralgha

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Flyinisforbirds said:
Northwest gives up scope to save pensions = (select answer from below)

a. Northwest pilots get significant increase in defined benefit pension funding
b. Northwest Pilots get recalled in massive numbers
c. Pensions get the axe
d. Jim wins powerball
Both c and d.
 

spinproof

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General Lee said:
PS--we just had 2500 captains leave with half of their pensions in a lump sum. Will I give up more so they can get the other half? No.

Gee General seems to me that's a short sighted statment! With them gone it's you that stands to win or lose that pension! Remember what your Father said..."it's not what you make it's what you save...!"
 

mynameisjim

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spinproof said:
Remember what your Father said..."it's not what you make it's what you save...!"

My dad never said that. He said buy assets not liabilities. Or maybe he said get drunk and screw. Oh wait, was that my Rich Dad or my Poor Dad? I can never remember.

I just hope that someday I can fly a shiny airplane for $6.75 an hour. Please don't take that away from me.
 

sf3boy

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mynameisjim said:
I just hope that someday I can fly a shiny airplane for $6.75 an hour. Please don't take that away from me.

I think you'll get your chance. As far as scope being a strike issue, and then liquidation as NuGuy as said, are the widebody captains aware of this plan? I think strike and liquidation to save Airbus FO's is not part of their business model.
 

Monster Buck

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I have always supported mainline keeping as much flying as possible but.....I am so sick of you so called "mainline" pilots posting on the regional boards with all of your chest pounding. It is like college nerds going to the local high school to look cool. Go back! Better yet, keep going on the chest pounding, your former allies are starting to turn against you. I'm sure that will help your case.
 

screwed_again

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Redmeat said:
You XJ/9E guys are hilarious. You continually "dis" mainline and then at the end of all your posts you put in "hope the best for you guys'.


No you don't.

Redmeat,

I don't think they are bashing mainline guys at all. He brought up a very good point regarding pension and scope. Probably can't have both...

Keep up the AWESOME Dif'rent Strokes quotes. They're so funny!
 

Paul R. Smith

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Whats with all of the ngative crap coming out of this? Is it not good that NWA ALPA decided to not lay down on some of these crucial issues? I wonder how much negativity there would be if they decided to give up and to give alot of that flying to the regional level? Would some of your frowns turn into smiles?


I say good on em.

Tom
 

NuGuy

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General Lee said:
The quote came from the NW MEC chair. Everyone knows the pensions are toast anyway. NW and DL want 25 years from Congress to fund them, and Congress so far as agreed to 14 years. Therefore, I think Scope will be the highest priority issue. They obviously want the jobs, regardless of the costs. IF they give up the larger RJs now, they will have to give up more later. I hope National ALPA sees this too.

The pensions are toast. Say that ten times fast Jimmy Dandy.

Hi General,

An astute point...

The pensions all hinge on the pending legislation in Congress. If it passes, the 'A' fund "liability" gets re-figured with more realistic return rates, and any remaining funding deficit gets a longer period for payback....payments which the returns on the actual money in the fund iteself may actually make unecessesary.

By the way, this in no way is this pawning the problem off on the taxpayer. It's simply allowing time for the funds to self correct. Interest rates are on the rise, and that in itself goes a long way.

If the legislation doesn't pass, there are no concessions that could EVER be made to make up federally required payments...heck, the pilots could work for free, and it wouldn't matter. The pensions will be distress terminated...period.

The pension mess is out of our hands, and nothing the pilots do (other than call/write/email their congress critter), especially at the negotiating table, will make any difference.

If the pilots give up scope to save the pension now, and there turns out to be no pension reform, you've lost both scope AND the pension. It's best to hang onto the thing you CAN control.

Giving up something to "save" the pension is pointless. The MEC and negotiating commitee sees this, thus the big push to protect what we already have.

I don't blame the XJ/9E guys for watching this mess unfold. They're tied to Big Red Mama, and everyone else's dance card is full.

Nu
 

SRMairlines

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The mainline guys may not have to protect their pensions. NWA management also have pensions that are just as underfunded as the pilots. Doug S. has deep pockets and will try to save his pension too. With the Pension Relief Bill possibly going to pass in the next few months, it may convince the Banckrupcy judge that the Pension Plans can be listed as a secure debt at NWA and DAL. The PBGC does not want them dumped again and they are also campaigning to the gov't to pass this bill with as much relief as possible.
 

Deli Guy

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Yo Monster Buck,
I know I have seen your input on the "majors" boards and your posts seemed pretty even keeled. Don't go off on this "former allies" thing because then "they" win. I am going anywhere the information is and there is some good stuff here. What happens to the "former" mainline guys is we get flamed by a guy like Jim Dandy and when we rebut him (always easy to do) it sort of spews over on to the other regional guys.
There is a real threat that we will strike over this SCOPE issue. I would not count it out.
 
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