NTSB/Big Brother wants to babysit you via the black box

[DieselDragRacer]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-02-23-recorders_N.htm

 

[AA717driver]

STMFD. Next, the company will review the tapes and file Rule 32 (basically at AA, it's a catch-all regulation to punish someone for saying anything that can possibly be construed as negative about a fellow employee) charges.

Exactly how will reviewing conversations AFTER the fact prevent cockpit distractions? If you want to remove distractions, QUIT VIOLATING THE CONTRACT! Quit intimidating people out of calling in sick. Quit shortcutting maintenance. Quit gutting the workrules and pay in the contracts so our QOL BECOMES a distraction.

I know it will happen so let me be the first to put it on the CVR: F#@K the NTSB!

TC

 

[Bluestreak]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-02-23-recorders_N.htm

Um,yeah,sure...As soon as the boardroom and the CEO's office have the same thing.We must remember to add "CVR-ERASE" to the parking checklist.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That button does not erase it. Once pushed you still can go down about four layers on the recording.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am sure the ATA will push for this, and because of that, it will be one of the few recommendations from the NTSB that gets approved.

That said, they need to realize that conversation also keeps pilots alert.

 

[Abernathy]

I have a lot of respect for the NTSB, and while I obviously disagree with the recommendation, let's remember that NTSB recommendations are rarely turned into policy. Also it should be important to note that they keep using Buffalo as an example and making people believe that chit chat a factor in the crash. I don't care how much you talk, if you're instinct is to pull back on the stick during a stall condition, defying logic, reason, the stick pusher, and any training you've ever recieved, being silent wouldn't have changed a thing.

 

[Ex737Driver]

I see a new future in crewmember sign language instruction.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I see a new future in crewmember sign language instruction.

That course shouldn't take long. "Make a fist. Extend middle finger. Wave toward CVR. Repeat." End of instruction.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Sumwalt has definitely forgotten that he once was an airline pilot and Union Safety guy....

Now he's just another Bush-appointed empty suit who thinks he's the upper crust....

 

[Dornier 335]

I don't know what the fuss is all about. I am convinced that companies pull CVR tapes to listen to certain pilots (black sheep, higher union ups). As far as I know there's no law preventing management to do this. The regs only state that the FAA cannot use it against you, but there's no mention what the company can or cannot do with your recorded statement of "Fu(& *****" .

Be careful, big brother might be listening more than you think, especially with the digital CVRs which can playback farther back than you wish for!

 

[FlyinGuy]

I guess there will be more reading instead of talking in the cockpit if this goes through.

 

[Green Banana]

I don't know what the fuss is all about. I am convinced that companies pull CVR tapes to listen to certain pilots (black sheep, higher union ups). As far as I know there's no law preventing management to do this. The regs only state that the FAA cannot use it against you, but there's no mention what the company can or cannot do with your recorded statement of "Fu(& *****" .

Be careful, big brother might be listening more than you think, especially with the digital CVRs which can playback farther back than you wish for!

You really think that management has nothing better to do than listen to you complain about crew scheduling? Pilots are a tiny cog in the airline machine and for the most part trip over each other to work overtime and screw other pilots. Trust me, Management thinks much less of you and about you than you think.

 

[Tomct]

Also it should be important to note that they keep using Buffalo as an example and making people believe that chit chat a factor in the crash. I don't care how much you talk, if you're instinct is to pull back on the stick during a stall condition, defying logic, reason, the stick pusher, and any training you've ever recieved, being silent wouldn't have changed a thing.

AMEN! I don't like to "Arm-Chair Quarterback," but this one (Unfortunately) is 100% Correct! God Bless.

 

[inline]

Sumwalt has definitely forgotten that he once was an airline pilot and Union Safety guy....

Now he's just another Bush-appointed empty suit who thinks he's the upper crust....

That's right, blame it all on Bush you moron.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

That's right, blame it all on Bush you moron.

Wrong. This stems from the BUF accident and Renslow got his certificates during the Bush admin. So, yeah... Bush is certainly to blame, at least indirectly.

 

[Dizel8]

As far as I know there's no law preventing management to do this.

Actually, I think there is, not that I can find the reference at the moment.

Found it, well, at least I read in in a manner that says the "company" cannot listen to it just for giggles:

"The CVR recordings are treated differently than the other factual information obtained in an accident investigation. Due to the highly sensitive nature of the verbal communications inside the cockpit, Congress has required that the Safety Board not release any part of a CVR audio recording. Because of this sensitivity, a high degree of security is provided for the CVR audio and its transcript. The content and timing of release of the written transcript are strictly regulated: under federal law, transcripts of pertinent portions of cockpit voice recordings are released at a Safety Board public hearing on the accident or, if no hearing is held, when a majority of the factual reports are made public."

Further, I do recall unions being adamantly against CVR's, for obvious reasons, this being a perfect example of one of those reasons, and the only way the NTSB/Goverment was able to persuade the pilots to allow this, was to say that the CVR could only be used in accident investigations.

 

[GogglesPisano]

No laws against it. Some of the better collective bargaining agreements prohibit it, however.

 

[AA717driver]

I guess there will be more reading instead of talking in the cockpit if this goes through.

Yeah but now we have to be careful not to rattle the paper when we turn the page.

TC

 

[boeingdriver213]

Senator Jim Demint is reportedly going to introduce a bill tomorrow requiring CVR recordings be available for disciplinary action. This is totally counterproductive to the original intent of the CVR, so I would hope this attempt to intimidate us and further erode this career is stopped ASAP. A letter written to your senator would probably be in order about now also, not to mention to your union reps.

 

[Dornier 335]

If that's the case I want every conversation of the FAA and our dear politicians recorded as well. At least then we can demonstrate some incompetence. ALPA better fight this!!!

Actually, I think there is, not that I can find the reference at the moment.

Found it, well, at least I read in in a manner that says the "company" cannot listen to it just for giggles:

"The CVR recordings are treated differently than the other factual information obtained in an accident investigation. Due to the highly sensitive nature of the verbal communications inside the cockpit, Congress has required that the Safety Board not release any part of a CVR audio recording. Because of this sensitivity, a high degree of security is provided for the CVR audio and its transcript. The content and timing of release of the written transcript are strictly regulated: under federal law, transcripts of pertinent portions of cockpit voice recordings are released at a Safety Board public hearing on the accident or, if no hearing is held, when a majority of the factual reports are made public."

Further, I do recall unions being adamantly against CVR's, for obvious reasons, this being a perfect example of one of those reasons, and the only way the NTSB/Goverment was able to persuade the pilots to allow this, was to say that the CVR could only be used in accident investigations.

Dizel8 as far as I understand this refers only to recordings obtained in an accident. Nothing IMHO prevents the company to eavesdrop through recordings obtained through the CVR. Call me paranoid if you want, but that's what four years working for Uncle H. will do to you.

 

[Quimby]

Week by week, the profession goes down the toilet.

uke:

 

[whaleroast]

This is the first step in many to come to completely take away a persons right to be a person and instead turn them into a robot. This is what the governmant wants right? This government the people elected?
How long until cars have a camera in them to catch people texting or using their phone or even tuning the radio. Oh my god so many distractions!
My state can't even balance the budget. I know the local city government can't even pay its fire fighters, they had to lay 15 off. Their entire economy is based upon traffic tickets and dui checkpoints, impounding vehicles. A joke. Our economy here is not self sufficient, it can't pay for itself. It needs all of us to keep it aflaot.
My state is going to withhold its refunds until the state can pay its workers.
I pay a ********************load in taxes and I know many others that do also.
The next thing to happen here will be red light cameras. After that a camera in our homes to make sure we are doing it missionary. Its coming folks.
Someone will be watching as we do it once a week.
Twice if we get uncle sams permission.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

just pull the cb

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Yeah but now we have to be careful not to rattle the paper when we turn the page.

TC

That's the sound of a pilot following along on his charts.

 

[fracpt]

write your senators people, write them all as much as you can and bombard them with letters againt this ..

 

[macdu]

This one better be squashed fast by Babbit as a no deal. I can't believe what is becoming of the industry in the U.S. This is just another example of our elected/appointed officials running amok. As one of the earlier posts queried; What can they gain from random after the fact cockpit chit-chat. Is it that big of a mystery to figure out. All they need to do is go consult with the NTSB human performance group or go listen to some past, post accident cvr tapes to get a handle on it again. Again, another knee jerk reaction to an accident where we already know what happened, and, why. This is easier than implementing new entry requirements for pilots and higher standards in training.
For those pilots at airlines with FOQA in place, be very careful where that leads. Make certain that your bargaining agreement has specific language about who see's what and what can be done with it. That data that gets pumped out of the airplane is a treasure trove of information and would surprise a lot of U.S. guys about how the company can see how you are flying their airplane. Here in China, after my flight I can go up to an office and see on a monitor exactly how I flew. Like watching yourself on Microsoft flight simulator, except it's real. I was 5kts above Vref, I was 10ft high over the threshold, I exited the high speed(I know) too fast, etc..They have even programmed the FMS to alert to certain changes. As in think you are going to change the fuel load so you don't land overweight? Don't do it!
I guess what I'm saying is this is going on around the rest of the world except the U.S., but it is coming, and it sucks. It becomes the number one first decision. If I do this will it trigger a QAR? This is the punishment tool here, and they use it. Payroll deducted!

 

[dispatchguy]

I cant believe anyone hasnt already said it...












Wait for it.......









Just a little longer........










MESA SUX!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Now THAT was funny!!!

 

[ATRCAPT]

Everyone should should be writing their senators over this. Takes two minutes...


http://www.senate.gov/

Upper right corner, select your state and it will give you a link to a web form for each senator.

 

[Sycamore SAm]

So let me get this straight. The crew is commuting across the country,and "encouraged" to fly sick and tired, yet this is what the NTSB and law makers are focusing on?