NPA shoots across AirTran (Leonards) Bow

[-9Capt]

Instead of attempting to build bridges, they just built walls.

Building bridges? You must be a new hire. That was already tried over and over again and look where it got us. Each time we bend over a little more, they shove it a little deeper. It's to the point where I'm starting to get a sore throat.

As for the insults you mentioned, as far as I'm concerned, they insulted the entire pilot group by bringing up concessions and giving themselves bonusus (not the 1st time they've done that, but you probably weren't here back then).

The company loves to tell the media about the great relationship they have with the pilot group, how we all hold hands and roast smores around the campfire. Mgt would never sling mud in the media, that would hurt the stock price, which would hurt their bonus check!!

With that said, I still think we have one of the best flying jobs around today, it's just lately my sore throat has been getting worse!!

 

[CatfishVT9]

Yeah I'm new (a year now), but I do know how to negotiate and get things done. 21 years in the military, and especially 2 years on an Admiral's staff teaches you about getting things done. I worked on the staff of the head of all Naval Aviation for the east coast (much bigger than this airline). So I was in on some high level discussions and planning sessions. And I had plenty of media training. If NPA has a media person, they should be fired.


The point is that if you can't maintain your professionalism, you can't be respected, regardless of what the other side does.

Tell me again how this article will help?

 

[SWA/FO]

Yeah but this is not the military...

 

[sleepy]

It seems like the airlines always have the same cycle; start-up, growth, greedy labour and management, stagnation, and death. It looks like Airtran has reached the greedy labour and management stage. JB is still in the growth stage, DAL (along with USAir and Untied) is in the death and near-death stage. Somehow, Contential and NWA keep plugging along.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,


Your discontent for DL from your ASA days is so transparent. Enjoy Lowes now. Enjoy their great fleet and their great service at their huge hardware stores. I personally LOVE LOWES, I think they are the BEST at what they do, hands down. Enjoy that, and let the bad ASA/DL memories go. Let go man, let go. Wear your Lowes uniform with pride. Good for you. Are you happy Gene Hackman is the "voice of Lowes" on those commercials? I think it is cool, and he also was the voice of United for awhile.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLB717]

Catfish,

With the resources you could bring to the Union, please call and get involved, I am sure they would love to have you. I for one very much love this company. I am also still thinking how this will all work to keep the company strong and increase the pilot QOL. But we all need to be proactive in keeping things running. The AJC did what they do best, left out the posative things that were said by the Union and printed the ugly. I am sure it is a lesson learned because we are not a greedy pilot group and we dont hate our leadership, we are just a family with some disfunction that all airlines have. And I feel that we are moving forward and not back, but that doesnt mean it is always easy.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

That article only serves to show how clueless the NPA Board really is. You can play hardball without resulting to public insults. That was just stupid.


Oh I'm sure I'll hear "but management---------"(fill in the blank). So tell me how personal attacks and the snide comments that are laced in their email updates are going to help in negotiations. Instead of attempting to build bridges, they just built walls.

Good job. Now go get some media training.

While I wouldn't have couched things quite as colorfully as you did, I tend to agree with you generally. MEC's should be very careful about what they say and how they say it in the press, especially in issues involving contract talks. Pulling out all the stops in the first public message of a new campaign is a dangerous tactic...the size of the salvo should match the size of the target.

In our contract negotiations process the past 3+ years at ExpressJet, we were always very careful with our message (especially given the audience) and we also were very careful never to turn it into a personal pissing match. That gets both sides no where fast and it was something. By the way, I say "we" because I had a fairly involved role in our negotiations process so that should help give some understanding as to where I am coming from with my comments in this post.

Of course...there is a time and a place for everything I suppose but given what I know about Airtran and Joe Leonard and its CBA, etc, I'm not quite sure that invoking memories of Frank Lorenzo was really all that apropos, but then again, I'm not an Airtran pilot so I'm probably not the best person to comment on that quote and say if it was warranted/justified or not. Just seems somewhat counterproductive to shoot that kind of a shot at the outset of a negotiations process in my opinion.

-Neal

 

[TexaSWA]

Another thought, Lowecur would you please tout Spirit to any friends you have in the investment world?

Are you FCUKing kidding me. This guy is about 0 for 10. Tell you what, Ive got some stock in a bridge in Arizona to sell you. When California falls off into the Pacific you can write your own ticket.

 

[Ty Webb]

Just seems somewhat counterproductive to shoot that kind of a shot at the outset of a negotiations process in my opinion.

-Neal

Actually, the Company started this crap over 6 months ago . . . asking for a 12% reduction in pilot costs, which they apparently just pulled out of thin air, because when the Union asked where those numbers came from, they didn't even have an answer . . . . no data to support those numbers . . . . basically, they wanted to start "in the basement" and the Union wanted to start "in the attic" and hopefully, we will meet in the "living room".

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Actually, the Company started this crap over 6 months ago . . . asking for a 12% reduction in pilot costs, which they apparently just pulled out of thin air, because when the Union asked where those numbers came from, they didn't even have an answer . . . . no data to support those numbers . . . . basically, they wanted to start "in the basement" and the Union wanted to start "in the attic" and hopefully, we will meet in the "living room".

Yea, like I said, not being an AAI pilot makes it hard for me to accurately comment on your process. That said, the NPA could have made a statement not much different than what you said above referencing the query on where the 12% came from, etc. Then again, I am sure the AJC got everything just perfectly accurate when it picked out its sound bites from the phone interview. Good luck guys! I think you've got a great operation and a great contract.

-Neal

 

[CatfishVT9]

Actually, the Company started this crap over 6 months ago . . . asking for a 12% reduction in pilot costs, which they apparently just pulled out of thin air, because when the Union asked where those numbers came from, they didn't even have an answer . . . . no data to support those numbers . . . . basically, they wanted to start "in the basement" and the Union wanted to start "in the attic" and hopefully, we will meet in the "living room".

Ty,

That's the message that needed to be driven home. Quotes like "the company has failed to provide us with data we requested several moths ago" go alot farther at getting the point across.

Also, it's very possible that whoever said the Lorenzo comment thought the interview was over. Guess what, say it to a reporter and you'll read about it.

By the way, I hope that basement isn't PJVee's.

 

[Doug Parker]

Hey BluDevAv8R,

CoEx is under the regionals board - this is the majors board.

The way you Brown-nose the company, you must have been a PFT ????

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Hey BluDevAv8R,

CoEx is under the regionals board - this is the majors board.

The way you Brown-nose the company, you must have been a PFT ????

Nope, didn't PFT. As a matter of fact, they even gave me money while I was in training. Go figure. Not sure how that is germaine to the discussion. Should I bring up the ex-EAL pilots currently at Airtran? Or the guys who PFT'd at the old ValuJet through FSI? Of course not....because it doesn't matter, nor does it matter that some PFT'd at my airline. Who cares right now.

I'm not sure how comparing my company to yours is germaine to the discussion either. Who cares? But for argument's sake, let's push the point even farther...my company flies to over 175 destinations including over 27 destinations in Mexico, 2 in the Bahamas, 1 in Guatemala, and 6 in Canada. We serve every single domestic city on the CAL route map except for LAS, PDX, SEA, SAN, and SFO. We have 253 airplanes at the moment (and growing) and over 7000 employees including 2600 pilots (and growing) and fly over 1400 flights per day. Yes, that is just XJT. But again, why does it matter what my company does or your company does when this board is for the free exchange of ideas and debate?

Brown-nose the company? Hardly. For the last 3+ years I have worked full time fighting for the XJT pilots. But do I see the point in starting media wars against my CEO? No. It is counter-productive and pointless.

Now what were we talking about again?

-Neal

 

[-9Capt]

It looks like Airtran has reached the greedy labour and management stage..

Sleepy,

For someone far removed from the day to day activities of AirTran, you seem to have it all figured out. The pilots are pissed about managements contract "interpretations" (violations). I don't know where you're getting the idea that labor is greedy. Before the majors took pay cuts, our Capts made less than UAL/DAL F/O's, is that greedy?

All we're looking for is contract compliance, is that what you consider greedy?

Instead of Sleepy you remind me of another dwarf, Dopey.

 

[-9Capt]

Tell me again how this article will help?

Catfish,

I thought I was clear the 1st time.

This article will help because managements bonus is tied to stock price. That's why the press releases management put out claim we have a "good relationship".

This article hurt the stock price, check for yourself. If they want to screw with our pay, we screw with theirs. Understand?

 

[pianoman]

Hey BluDevAv8R,

CoEx is under the regionals board - this is the majors board.

The way you Brown-nose the company, you must have been a PFT ????

Sorry to bother the big important airlines. Please dispense some more sage wisdom to us mere regional pilots. I don't think having an intelligent discussion about contract negotiations qualifies as brown nosing. We both fly jets. They climb descend turn land FMS autopilot the same way. One's just bigger. Get over it.

Comments like yours just prove the point that pilots are their own worst enemy.

And it doesn't matter, but I know he didn't PFT.

 

[IAHERJ]

Doug Parker is not an AirTran pilot Neal so please don't direct your response towards our pilot group. You and I know each other and you and I had a discussion a few weeks before I joined AirTran back in early 2003. I think this Parker fellow is an Express guy or an ex Express guy who is throwing bombs at you for whatever reason. Trust me, everyone at Airtran knows our history. The good, bad and ugly. I miss the culture at Express sometimes. FO's here are generally treated as though they just got into the business. I won't go into it too deep here but I think we could work on some things and I will do my part after I upgrade to extend some respect and delegate responsibilities with the FO like industry standard CRM has directed for the past 20 years.

IAHERJ

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey, IAH, when we Captains want your opinion, we'll tell it to you.

Just kidding. Come over to the 73 program . . . we actually remember what it was like to be an FO . . . . heh, heh.

 

[Boeingman]

Hey BluDevAv8R,

CoEx is under the regionals board - this is the majors board.

The way you Brown-nose the company, you must have been a PFT ????

I know this type of posting must inflate a very low self esteem level with you, but of all people, you fired a shot at, this was a poor choice.

BluDev is an asset to the XJET union and an extremely dedicated unionist who looks out for and spends a great deal of his personal time helping his brother pilots.

What contributions do you make for your pilot group? Other than writing with your Sharpie on the mens rooms stalls?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

IAHERJ, You fly with me....we'll keep the fun-meter pegged

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Doug Parker is not an AirTran pilot Neal so please don't direct your response towards our pilot group. You and I know each other and you and I had a discussion a few weeks before I joined AirTran back in early 2003. I think this Parker fellow is an Express guy or an ex Express guy who is throwing bombs at you for whatever reason. Trust me, everyone at Airtran knows our history. The good, bad and ugly. I miss the culture at Express sometimes. FO's here are generally treated as though they just got into the business. I won't go into it too deep here but I think we could work on some things and I will do my part after I upgrade to extend some respect and delegate responsibilities with the FO like industry standard CRM has directed for the past 20 years.

IAHERJ

Oh I wasn't bro...just to him. His comments were uncalled for and that is why I rolled in hot. I have the utmost respect for the AAI pilot group. Great to me everytime I've needed a ride and a great contract. And yes, I definitely supported you going there...I hope its working out for you. We at XJT aren't immune from cultural shifts. We are now 2600 strong, which means we get a lot of the negative aspects of a large pilot group. Take care dude...I hope you're enjoying life on the lake (if that is still where you are living).

-Neal

 

[Steeler Fan]

IAHERJ, You fly with me....we'll keep the fun-meter pegged

Yeah, just as long as you call him "All-wise and all-knowing" and tell him "Great landing, Captain, no really, I thought they both were."

Just kidding, Fly-By-Cable is great to fly with, and he's not nearly as scary as FL717!

 

[FL717]

Just kidding, Fly-By-Cable is great to fly with, and he's not nearly as scary as FL717!

I thought I made it VERY clear to you when we briefed at the gate -

"DO NOT LET ME WAKE UP AND CATCH YOU READING THE NEWSPAPER".....

"THE GEAR HANDLE IS CLOSER TO YOU..... SO GET YOUR OWN GEAR".....

"WHEN YOU'RE FLYING THE AIRPLANE..... WHY DON'T YOU JUST TALK TO ATC YOURSELF".....

and finally "SHUT YOUR YAPPER, I'M NAPPING"....

 

[-9Capt]

FO's here are generally treated as though they just got into the business.

It used to be ALOT worse.

 

[FLB717]

A Captain has 4 Gold Stripes, and 5 black ones.

 

[Steeler Fan]

I thought I made it VERY clear to you when we briefed at the gate -

"DO NOT LET ME WAKE UP AND CATCH YOU READING THE NEWSPAPER".....

"THE GEAR HANDLE IS CLOSER TO YOU..... SO GET YOUR OWN GEAR".....

"WHEN YOU'RE FLYING THE AIRPLANE..... WHY DON'T YOU JUST TALK TO ATC YOURSELF".....

and finally "SHUT YOUR YAPPER, I'M NAPPING"....

Don't forget...

Captain: "If anything good happens during this flight, it's because of me, and if anything bad happens, it's because of you"

 

[IAHERJ]

I hope I not comming across as a whiner because I love it here. I just had my first bad experience recently and I probably did some generalizing on my post. The majority of guys I fly with are great. Look forward to flying with all the above mentioned posters. One or two bad experiences in over 2 years isn't too bad.

 

[Ty Webb]

My personal favorite was the moron who blew a gasket when I turned off the EAI when we were in the clear and it was my leg. He then turned them back on, and left them on. . . just to prove a point . . . evidently, the point was that he was a control freak with a miniscule johnson.

 

[FLB717]

Ty,

I thought we agreed to not talk about that. I crossed the line and I said I was sorry when I turned them off. I hit on your sister one time.....

 

[Ty Webb]

That's how I figured out the miniscule Johnson part!