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Now AA is talking with JAL......show us the $$$$--article

General Lee

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Taiwan News Online
AP Source: American Airlines talking with JAL
By DAVID KOENIG
Associated Press
2009-09-13 08:06 AM


American Airlines parent AMR Corp. is negotiating for closer ties and possibly an investment in financially troubled Japan Airlines Corp., according to a person familiar with the talks.
American would like to form a joint business venture with JAL in which the two carriers would seek antitrust immunity to work closely in setting schedules and prices for service around the world, according to the person, who spoke Saturday on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the talks.

The negotiations, which grew more intense over the past four weeks and included meetings in Texas and Tokyo, raised the specter of a bidding war for a piece of JAL.

Delta Air Lines Inc., the world's biggest airline operator, also is in preliminary discussions about buying a stake in JAL for about $300 million. Delta could become a leading shareholder in JAL and get coveted access to Haneda Airport, which is close Tokyo's business district, according to a person briefed on the Delta situation.

A spokesman for Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR, Roger Frizzell, said, "We are in discussions at the senior executive level in Japan with JAL." He declined to comment further.

The person familiar with AMR's negotiations said that while AMR might invest in JAL, the two sides had not settled on an amount or the nature of the investment. AMR could buy a stake in JAL or invest in senior debt that could be converted to stock, the person said.

A cash infusion would help JAL, which reported a $1 billion loss in its most recent quarter.

American and JAL already have a so-called code-sharing agreement in which they sell seats on each other's flights. If they won immunity from antitrust laws, they could cooperate in setting prices and schedules. For example, instead of each operating a Chicago-to-Tokyo flight around the same time, they could stagger the flights to maximize traffic while splitting the revenue.

Delta, which declined to comment, doesn't have a Japanese partner. A Delta-JAL hookup would raise doubts about JAL's ability to remain in oneworld, an alliance of airlines that includes American and British Airways. Delta is in another alliance, called SkyTeam, which also includes Air France-KLM.

A Japanese newspaper reported Saturday that JAL has entered talks with Air France-KLM. Yomiuri, Japan's top-selling daily, said JAL hoped to expand its business in Europe with through Air France-KLM.

JAL officials said Friday that they were considering various tie-ups with a wide variety of potential partners, but nothing had been decided.

JAL is in the midst of major restructuring. The airline posted its biggest-ever quarterly loss of 99 billion yen ($1 billion) in the April-to-June period. It has forecast a net loss of 63 billion yen for the current fiscal year, which ends next March, and plans to cut the number of flights and slash costs by 53 billion yen during this fiscal year and another 100 billion yen in the next year.




Hey, we will gladly allow you to buy into JAL at a higher price, if you would please sell us Terminal 8 at JFK.......


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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ACL65PILOT

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If AMR gives the money it is going to put them in a weakened state. This is a high stakes game of poker.
 

Cobraair75drvr

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I would not get too excited about AMR being in a weakened state. They ain't Ual or Lcc for that matter. They are a brutal competitor and can't stand being 2nd fiddle. If they were to go Ch11 that would be TERRIBLE for Dal, and more importantly us pilots. The APA would cave instantly on pay and workrules and agree to some form of a resurected B-scale that will make the 80s look like the good old days.



If AMR gives the money it is going to put them in a weakened state. This is a high stakes game of poker.
 

crj567

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If AMR gives the money it is going to put them in a weakened state. This is a high stakes game of poker.

Yeah- and DAL buying them would be pure genuis! Let's see if we can lose 1.5 Billion per quarter!
-Synergy!!
 

GogglesPisano

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Crj,

Why do you care so much about DAL?? You almost act like you work here.

It's a twisted obsession of his. He's obsessed with General Lee as well.

Probably busted the interview during the psych eval. Prepare for denials and "never wanted to work for Delta ......"
 

General Lee

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It's a twisted obsession of his. He's obsessed with General Lee as well.

Probably busted the interview during the psych eval. Prepare for denials and "never wanted to work for Delta ......"


Well guess what? He will NEVER be a member of my fan club. (*BTW, if anyone wants to join it, it will be free for DL pilots, $15 a year for DCI pilots, $50 a year for non-Delta "family" pilots, with the exception of SWA pilots, which have to pay $100 a year since they can afford it)


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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Sedona16

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Delta, which declined to comment, doesn't have a Japanese partner. A Delta-JAL hookup would raise doubts about JAL's ability to remain in oneworld, an alliance of airlines that includes American and British Airways. Delta is in another alliance, called SkyTeam, which also includes Air France-KLM.

A Japanese newspaper reported Saturday that JAL has entered talks with Air France-KLM. Yomiuri, Japan's top-selling daily, said JAL hoped to expand its business in Europe with through Air France-KLM.

Delta's already tie up with AF/KLM and JAL's desire to get in on the european action definately gives DAL a leg up on American in any potential hook up or majority stake. Dont be surprised if JAL ends up in the SkyTeam group.
 

Scope out RJ's

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Yeah- and DAL buying them would be pure genuis! Let's see if we can lose 1.5 Billion per quarter!
-Synergy!!

Who's we? That 12 year old boy you keep locked up in your trailer?
Pure genius is you posting under both loser names tanker clown and this one!
Back to your rock, troll!
 

Acey

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lose-lose

All codesharing and U.S. pilot jobs aside, I don't see how this whole affair with JAL isn't a lose-lose situation for AA. It is not clear to me at all that AA would be in finance talks with them to secure an already existent relationship in Oneworld, were not DAL and AF-KLM in their own talks with them to steal them away.

Certainly, whichever group "wins" this battle to throw money at them, Skyteam has everything to gain, and Oneworld has everything to lose. If Skyteam succeeds, then they break up one of the pillars of Oneworld, and the only significant presence in Asia for them. This would be a veritable coup for Skyteam, and Oneworld would be essentially locked out of Asia for years to come.

Yet AA and now BA seem desperately ready to outbid Skyteam in order to secure their alliance. So their overpaying should they "win" seems highly likely. And the major benefits for Oneworld are defensive. They will have successfully parried Skyteam's thrust, but that is essentially all that they gain from it. However, the cost would be to either sap the remainder of their liquidity, or encumber themselves further into debt. They lose either way. For these reasons, I would have to say that Skyteam has already won with JAL, regardless of the outcome.
 

ACL65PILOT

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All codesharing and U.S. pilot jobs aside, I don't see how this whole affair with JAL isn't a lose-lose situation for AA. It is not clear to me at all that AA would be in finance talks with them to secure an already existent relationship in Oneworld, were not DAL and AF-KLM in their own talks with them to steal them away.

Certainly, whichever group "wins" this battle to throw money at them, Skyteam has everything to gain, and Oneworld has everything to lose. If Skyteam succeeds, then they break up one of the pillars of Oneworld, and the only significant presence in Asia for them. This would be a veritable coup for Skyteam, and Oneworld would be essentially locked out of Asia for years to come.

Yet AA and now BA seem desperately ready to outbid Skyteam in order to secure their alliance. So their overpaying should they "win" seems highly likely. And the major benefits for Oneworld are defensive. They will have successfully parried Skyteam's thrust, but that is essentially all that they gain from it. However, the cost would be to either sap the remainder of their liquidity, or encumber themselves further into debt. They lose either way. For these reasons, I would have to say that Skyteam has already won with JAL, regardless of the outcome.

That is exactly why I think it could be a Red Herring.
 

AA717driver

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This doesn't make sense to me.

Oh, wait, it's the airline business. It's NOT supposed to make sense...

TC
 

johnsonrod

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You guys are all missing the big point. It's all about STRATEGERY.... I believe Leo Mullin is advising this deal as an outside consultant.
 

G4G5

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The biggest loser will be UAL. Dal has NWA, AA will have JAL. Then who does UAL have? Only CAL, it's tough to sell routes with only one buyer and even tougher to negotiate a merger when the other guy knows he is the only game in town
 

RJAA

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UA and CO would be just fine as long as ANA sticks around with STAR alliance. With all of this mess going on with JAL, ANA will soon be the preferred airline of Japan. STAR also have SQ, TH and OZ, so bring it.
 

Dumb Pilot

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UA and CO would be just fine as long as ANA sticks around with STAR alliance. With all of this mess going on with JAL, ANA will soon be the preferred airline of Japan. STAR also have SQ, TH and OZ, so bring it.

Last year ANA already transported more passengers in both the domestic and international markets than JAL and the stats released for mid year already shows ANA with a good lead for this year, ANA is already the preferred airline in Japan. I frankly think it is more likely they will enter into a partnership with AF/KLM that they would with AA, just because they want to expand in higher yield markets, if you see the expansion plans of ANA for the 787/748/777 it is more towards China and the EU than anything else (very little expansion to the USA) specially in the cargo business (we carry a lot of freight to and from China on the passenger flights) China surpassed the USA last year as the major consumer of Japanese goods and the expansion is concentrated on that block. Although the USA cargo market continues to be an interesting and profitable market for the Japanese carriers the passenger market is not that much (the yield is just not there) I would be very surprised if those AA/JAL talks amount to anything
 
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