"Nothing but Gray Skies" article.. good read until the end.

[Groucho]

Duty Days at SWA vs. Legacy

I have friends at SWA and I would give my right arm to have their schedule.

They are productive. When a legacy pilot complains about work days and long duty days he is complaining about a lot of un-productive time. We sit around in hubs. If you do this several times a day it can really wear you down.

Southwest prides itself on quick turn times. The pilots are able to block out in fewer days and have more time off. Senior SWA pilots are not working 18 day months. unless they want to. Throw in commuting, due to the changes in domicile staffing that many legacy pilots have had to put up with, and you are in fact very weary after several months of that type of life.

Southwest pilots would feel the same way if they worked that schedule. They are luck enough to be scheduled in a much more efficient manner. The union rep would sing a different tune if he were at another carrier.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I agree. Nice article but the end made me cringe. Douchebag! I hear a glimmer of subconscious envy in his comments.

 

[Mugs]

I have friends at SWA and I would give my right arm to have their schedule.

They are productive. When a legacy pilot complains about work days and long duty days he is complaining about a lot of un-productive time. We sit around in hubs. If you do this several times a day it can really wear you down.

Southwest prides itself on quick turn times. The pilots are able to block out in fewer days and have more time off. Senior SWA pilots are not working 18 day months. unless they want to. Throw in commuting, due to the changes in domicile staffing that many legacy pilots have had to put up with, and you are in fact very weary after several months of that type of life.

Southwest pilots would feel the same way if they worked that schedule. They are luck enough to be scheduled in a much more efficient manner. The union rep would sing a different tune if he were at another carrier.

Well said. The hub and spoke system will always play an important role in providing a complete aviation transportation system. It is vital to the international side of the business and the smaller cities. However, the greater inefficiencies brought on by increased turn times, sitting and so forth will always be there. Since the revenue generated does not cover those inherent inefficiencies like it used to, we legacy employees have essentially been put in the unfortunate position of attempting to offset it with the pay / benefit and work rules we now operate under.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are you informed by the facts? Relying on the media to hang your brothers?

Sorry to disapoint you all...... At first read it is alarming.....

However, like the rest of you professionals, I don't accpet one source of information as fact. And I always give my fellow pilots the benefit of the doubt, just like I'd want them to give to me.

So, like any of you, I called the SWAPA offices and spoke to the S/T of SWAPA. SWAPA has called out the reporter. Jeff Hefner never recalls speaking to this guy as he is not media trained. It is shock journalism designed to sensationalize. Don't fall for it.

In addition, SWAPA is talking to ALPA to ensure the SWA pilots aren't bashing anyone, USAIR for example.

Finally, I told the S/T that I would communicate the FACTS with my fellow pilots in the crewrooms...

Get informed, get educated. Our ignorance is eroding us from within....

 

[Lake Alice]

Anyone who is dumb enought to take anything a media outlet prints at face value is, well, dumb! Unless you were present at the time of the interview then you have failed to realize fabricated controversy sells.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Most of the SWA pilots I used to chat with worked long hours, flew alot of legs and were pretty tired at the end of the night.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Southwest prides itself on quick turn times. The pilots are able to block out in fewer days and have more time off. Senior SWA pilots are not working 18 day months. unless they want to.

I, too, don't believe the SWA person said those things.


Most lines at SWA are 12-14 days a month working. 15 for reserve. Top half of the list includes many 3 4-day or 4 3-day lines. Block seems to be 75-90 month. What are you guys doing? No flame, just wondering. Trying to compare apples to apples.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Most of the SWA pilots I used to chat with worked long hours, flew alot of legs and were pretty tired at the end of the night.

You are very right. I only hate it when the bar is already closed when I get in.

 

[sleeves]

Are you informed by the facts? Relying on the media to hang your brothers?

Sorry to disapoint you all...... At first read it is alarming.....

However, like the rest of you professionals, I don't accpet one source of information as fact. And I always give my fellow pilots the benefit of the doubt, just like I'd want them to give to me.

So, like any of you, I called the SWAPA offices and spoke to the S/T of SWAPA. SWAPA has called out the reporter. Jeff Hefner never recalls speaking to this guy as he is not media trained. It is shock journalism designed to sensationalize. Don't fall for it.

In addition, SWAPA is talking to ALPA to ensure the SWA pilots aren't bashing anyone, USAIR for example.

Finally, I told the S/T that I would communicate the FACTS with my fellow pilots in the crewrooms...

Get informed, get educated. Our ignorance is eroding us from within....

Then I hope SWAPA and Mr. Hefner are taking the nessasary steps toward Legal Action, and a public press release.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Then I hope SWAPA and Mr. Hefner are taking the nessasary steps toward Legal Action, and a public press release.

I believe the SWA pilots are realistic and pragmatic. A printed retraction might be enough. These things happen. Live isn't fair, choose your battles.

The question is...will the guys that slammed JH and SWAPA on this thread............edit? Or will they continue to let thier post....define themselves...



.:beer:

 

[sleeves]

I A printed retraction might be enough.

A printed retaction is the minimum required here. Anything less is unacceptable to me. I am insulted, this gentelmen needs to publicly deny this.

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

SOUTHWEST AIRLINES
Pilots' Association
March 7, 2006

Captain Duane E. Woerth, President, ALPA
535 Herndon Parkway Herndon, VA 20170

Dear Duane,

On Monday, March 6 an article authored by Matthew Wald, New York Times writer, quoted a Southwest Airlines' pilot in an article entitled "Nothing but Gray Skies " After speaking to the reporter personally on at least two occasions today and speaking to the pilot who was "quoted" in the article I'm confident the reporter for some unknown reason included inaccurate and unsubstantiated comments attributed to a Southwest Airlines' pilot.

1. When asked several times today, the reporter could not recall specifically the time and place he allegedly interviewed the Southwest Airlines' pilot.. He was asked in very specific terms and was given several opportunities to confirm the precise comments he created to the pilot. He could not confirm they occurred as printed.
2. The reporter did call SWAPA for a comment in late .January in regards to another topic. He spoke to a SWAPA staff member who has a record of the call,. No information was passed to the reporter other than an acknowledgement of his request for information that would be passed to the appropriate individuals.
3 The reporter stated he was given the pilot's name by a SWAPA staff member, however the SWAPA staff' member confirmed this did not occur. It is the policy of SWAPA to never release the name of members to outside agencies; this includes the press.
4 The Captain involved was never interviewed by this reporter in regards to this story The Captain categorically denies the statements attributed to him.

The press can be your friend; however in this case Mr. Wald got it wrong. The alleged quotes reported by Mr. Wald in no way reflect the views or opinions of the Southwest Airlines' pilots SWAPA appreciates what all pilots have sacrificed to save their airlines and works cooperatively on many levels with ALPA, APA and all professional pilot organizations. SWAPA is contacting the paper to request a retraction and is pursuing other avenues to correct the inaccurate reporting which occurred

Best regards,
Joseph "Ike" Eichelkraut President, SWAPA
Brookview Plaza 0 1450 Empire Central Dr Suite 737 0 Dallas TX 75247
Phone: 214..350-9237 • Tollfree: 800-969-7972 . Fax: 214-350-0647 s www swapa org

 

[sleeves]

SOUTHWEST AIRLINES
Pilots' Association
March 7, 2006

Captain Duane E. Woerth, President, ALPA
535 Herndon Parkway Herndon, VA 20170

Dear Duane,

On Monday, March 6 an article authored by Matthew Wald, New York Times writer, quoted a Southwest Airlines' pilot in an article entitled "Nothing but Gray Skies " After speaking to the reporter personally on at least two occasions today and speaking to the pilot who was "quoted" in the article I'm confident the reporter for some unknown reason included inaccurate and unsubstantiated comments attributed to a Southwest Airlines' pilot.

1. When asked several times today, the reporter could not recall specifically the time and place he allegedly interviewed the Southwest Airlines' pilot.. He was asked in very specific terms and was given several opportunities to confirm the precise comments he created to the pilot. He could not confirm they occurred as printed.
2. The reporter did call SWAPA for a comment in late .January in regards to another topic. He spoke to a SWAPA staff member who has a record of the call,. No information was passed to the reporter other than an acknowledgement of his request for information that would be passed to the appropriate individuals.
3 The reporter stated he was given the pilot's name by a SWAPA staff member, however the SWAPA staff' member confirmed this did not occur. It is the policy of SWAPA to never release the name of members to outside agencies; this includes the press.
4 The Captain involved was never interviewed by this reporter in regards to this story The Captain categorically denies the statements attributed to him.

The press can be your friend; however in this case Mr. Wald got it wrong. The alleged quotes reported by Mr. Wald in no way reflect the views or opinions of the Southwest Airlines' pilots SWAPA appreciates what all pilots have sacrificed to save their airlines and works cooperatively on many levels with ALPA, APA and all professional pilot organizations. SWAPA is contacting the paper to request a retraction and is pursuing other avenues to correct the inaccurate reporting which occurred

Best regards,
Joseph "Ike" Eichelkraut President, SWAPA
Brookview Plaza 0 1450 Empire Central Dr Suite 737 0 Dallas TX 75247
Phone: 214..350-9237 • Tollfree: 800-969-7972 . Fax: 214-350-0647 s www swapa org

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif [URL="http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif"]http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif[/URL]

Good for them, this is the right course to take IMHO.

 

[boeing747-800]

Not everyone agrees that the longer working schedule is a problem. "It's hard for me to feel sorry for them," said Jeffrey Hefner, the safety chairman of the union that represents pilots at Southwest Airlines, who have always flown longer hours than pilots at older airlines.
"They're a bunch of spoiled brats," he said. "Historically, this has been a really cushy job once you get to the majors. You make a lot of money, and you don't have to fly a lot. But there had to be a market balancing at some point


Like I said SWA xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx...don't bother getting on my jumpseat. You're mentality at the top says it all

ah-ah-ah....

 

[chase]

Letter from the President of SWAPA

First of all to those who were willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a fellow pilot and to the pilots of SWAPA before spears were thrown, thanks. You are a credit to the profession. Cool heads need to prevail when dealing with "quotes" from the 4th estate.

SWAPA spent the day doing the necessary research to get the straight facts and preparing the reply you see above. I would ask each of you to contact your jumpseat point of contact and forward the contents of this letter to each of them in order to ensure SWA pilots are not denied any jumpseat rides by those few who might wish to take their anger out on jumpseating pilots for comments that turn out to be false. Additionally, pls cut & paste if you wish the contents of this letter & post it in your crew lounges so others can see the "facts" surrounding this article. The letter sums up quite well SWAPA's reaction and what steps are being taken to correct this situation. ALPA & APA representatives have also been notified of this response to the article. I'll withhold my comments about the author since my mother always taught me, "if you can't something nice about someone, don't say anything at all".

Thanks to sleeves & falconjet for posting the letter. Good on ya.

 

[Lake Alice]

Like I said SWA shootbird motherFrickers...don't bother getting on my jumpseat. You're mentality at the top says it all

Abhorrent, invidious... shall we call you loser now or do you still think we should give you the benefit of the doubt?

 

[AAflyer]

Thanks Chase,

As the old Top Gun movie saying goes "tensions are high". I think we are ALL high strung right now. It seems as pilots we are continuously in someone's cross-hairs. Thanks for setting the record straight.

AAflyer

 

[PCL_128]

SOUTHWEST AIRLINES
Pilots' Association
March 7, 2006

Captain Duane E. Woerth, President, ALPA
535 Herndon Parkway Herndon, VA 20170

Dear Duane,

On Monday, March 6 an article authored by Matthew Wald, New York Times writer, quoted a Southwest Airlines' pilot in an article entitled "Nothing but Gray Skies " After speaking to the reporter personally on at least two occasions today and speaking to the pilot who was "quoted" in the article I'm confident the reporter for some unknown reason included inaccurate and unsubstantiated comments attributed to a Southwest Airlines' pilot.

1. When asked several times today, the reporter could not recall specifically the time and place he allegedly interviewed the Southwest Airlines' pilot.. He was asked in very specific terms and was given several opportunities to confirm the precise comments he created to the pilot. He could not confirm they occurred as printed.
2. The reporter did call SWAPA for a comment in late .January in regards to another topic. He spoke to a SWAPA staff member who has a record of the call,. No information was passed to the reporter other than an acknowledgement of his request for information that would be passed to the appropriate individuals.
3 The reporter stated he was given the pilot's name by a SWAPA staff member, however the SWAPA staff' member confirmed this did not occur. It is the policy of SWAPA to never release the name of members to outside agencies; this includes the press.
4 The Captain involved was never interviewed by this reporter in regards to this story The Captain categorically denies the statements attributed to him.

The press can be your friend; however in this case Mr. Wald got it wrong. The alleged quotes reported by Mr. Wald in no way reflect the views or opinions of the Southwest Airlines' pilots SWAPA appreciates what all pilots have sacrificed to save their airlines and works cooperatively on many levels with ALPA, APA and all professional pilot organizations. SWAPA is contacting the paper to request a retraction and is pursuing other avenues to correct the inaccurate reporting which occurred

Best regards,
Joseph "Ike" Eichelkraut President, SWAPA
Brookview Plaza 0 1450 Empire Central Dr Suite 737 0 Dallas TX 75247
Phone: 214..350-9237 • Tollfree: 800-969-7972 . Fax: 214-350-0647 s www swapa org

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif

I'm no SWAPA fan, but I do have to give SWAPA credit for a classy response to the situation and a friendly letter to ALPA's President. Definitely a good job.

 

[boeing747-800]

If true I stand corrected

 

[81Horse]

Quoting my own first post from earlier today:

... OMG. Did he really say this?

Answer: no.

Kudos to SWAPA for getting right on this.

The NY Times -- still on the cutting edge of truthiness.