Norwegian Air vs ALPA

[bigboeings]

If the US airlines wold hire qualified people then we would have no interest in going to places like Norwegian. I have 14000+ hrs. With 10 years of wide body captain time and find myself unemployed. No majors are calling me. I'd go to norwegian in a heartbeat if they took FAA licenses.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

I see a big advertisement board in OAK for Norwegian Air - I hope there not coming

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Ryan Air has a about 25% share of Aer Lingus and O'Leary is trying buy EI so that he can use their A330's and gates in BOS, JFK, ORD and SFO

 

[Dumb Pilot]

If the US airlines wold hire qualified people then we would have no interest in going to places like Norwegian. I have 14000+ hrs. With 10 years of wide body captain time and find myself unemployed. No majors are calling me. I'd go to norwegian in a heartbeat if they took FAA licenses.

http://www.crewresourcesworldwide.com/positions.htm

I realize that your experience is in Boeings, but there are a couple of Airbus contracts there that although not very attractive money wise, it is a good way to get 500 on type, that will open other doors for you!

Not much hiring of experienced pilots at the majors, unless you have a military background or well connected....!

 

[dicko]

My cynical feeling is that nothing ALPA or SWAPA says will make any difference. We could show film of NIA executives involved in child trafficking and congress and the FAA would ignore it.

Airlines lobbyists on the other hand ...... We're talking about a group that can convince a government entity responsible for safety that ;

~ Smoke detectors aren't really needed, right now.
~ It's safe to operate complex machinery for 16 hours.
~ cargo airplanes don't crash
~ lithium batteries are safe, despite the fiery crashes.

If anybody can do it, A4A can do it.

 

[bigboeings]

Yeah I've looked at a lot of that stuff. At this point putting up with crappy pay is not an option at this point. It sucks to be at this point and overqualified and unemployed.

 

[SWA Bubba]

My cynical feeling is that nothing ALPA or SWAPA says will make any difference. We could show film of NIA executives involved in child trafficking and congress and the FAA would ignore it.

Airlines lobbyists on the other hand ...... We're talking about a group that can convince a government entity responsible for safety that ;

~ Smoke detectors aren't really needed, right now.
~ It's safe to operate complex machinery for 16 hours.
~ cargo airplanes don't crash
~ lithium batteries are safe, despite the fiery crashes.

If anybody can do it, A4A can do it.

Dicko? Cynical?

Say it ain't so....

Bubba

 

[dicko]

Yeah I've looked at a lot of that stuff. At this point putting up with chappy pay is not an option at this point. It sucks to be at this point and overqualified.

I hate to see anybody in this position. I hope things take a turn for the better soon.

I'm sure that you've already thought of this, but - Etihad and Qatar ? Both are hiring, both have fairly quick upgrades and respectable pay. I'm sure you know the downsides etc.

 

[dicko]

Dicko? Cynical?

Say it ain't so....

Bubba

Cynical optimist

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

My cynical feeling is that nothing ALPA or SWAPA says will make any difference. We could show film of NIA executives involved in child trafficking and congress and the FAA would ignore it.

Airlines lobbyists on the other hand ...... We're talking about a group that can convince a government entity responsible for safety that ;

~ Smoke detectors aren't really needed, right now.
~ It's safe to operate complex machinery for 16 hours.
~ cargo airplanes don't crash
~ lithium batteries are safe, despite the fiery crashes.

If anybody can do it, A4A can do it.

A4A is firmly behind denying NAI a certificate along with 4 legacy carriers. There is a lot of horsepower there.

"If you say you can't, then you won't"

 

[General Lee]

Ryan Air has a about 25% share of Aer Lingus and O'Leary is trying buy EI so that he can use their A330's and gates in BOS, JFK, ORD and SFO

And how many times has he been told NO by the Irish Govt? Ireland wants to keep it's National airline intact.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

http://www.crewresourcesworldwide.com/positions.htm

I realize that your experience is in Boeings, but there are a couple of Airbus contracts there that although not very attractive money wise, it is a good way to get 500 on type, that will open other doors for you!

Not much hiring of experienced pilots at the majors, unless you have a military background or well connected....!

Rumor is 850 this year at DL, and 850 a year for several after that. The other legacies will be hiring too. The Military pool will dry up sooner than later.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Rumor is 850 this year at DL, and 850 a year for several after that. The other legacies will be hiring too. The Military pool will dry up sooner than later.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I don't listen to rumors, I go by what my friends and colleagues are experiencing and that is very few getting interviews and large numbers of those getting the "thanks but no thanks" while the majors are filling classes with people with less than a third of the experience level they have.....! I just don't believe in the "nothing but blue skies ahead" none sense, it's never been the case..!

 

[Smarta$$]

It is essential to understand that the price of anything in a "free market" is unrelated to the cost of production. An airline will set up a ticket price structure that attempts to maximize the revenue generated by each flight. They may make or lose money, but the goal is for the system to generate as much revenue as possible. Ticket prices are unaffected by how much the pilots make. The airlines will not lower ticket prices if the airlines are allowed to use half price pilots. They will just make higher profits. This is true across all industries. Did the price for car and trucks go down when they started making them with brutally repressed cheap labor in Mexico? No, but profits went up.

It is not ALPA vs customers. The customers will pay the same prices. It is not ALPA pilots vs NA pilots. It is the 1% vs the 99% like it is everywhere else.

As a regional pilot I have to wonder why ALPA is so upset about this now and not back when they created the regional airline system (which is massive compared to the NA threat) that is full of half price pilots, mechanics, FA's, ramp workers, etc. When you look at the good profits at some major airlines or worry about the NA threat, don't forget about the tens of thousands of people already working at half price at the regionals.

Scott

I agree Scott. But they care now because this threatens their big ego planes. I do think it should be stopped, but agree with you on the selective outrage....

 

[General Lee]

I don't listen to rumors, I go by what my friends and colleagues are experiencing and that is very few getting interviews and large numbers of those getting the "thanks but no thanks" while the majors are filling classes with people with less than a third of the experience level they have.....! I just don't believe in the "nothing but blue skies ahead" none sense, it's never been the case..!

Uhhhhhh, oh-Kay? 96 were hired in April (4 classes of 24) and JG stated to a pal that 100 a month (really 96) for the next 5, to "catch up."

Also, "blue skies ahead" might be the case with the number of actual retirements coming up. Do you not think thousands will retire in the next 5 years at all three legacies? I'd say things are looking up. Have you seen movement at Air Japan?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Green]

Guys,

Bit of a reality check. The lowest paid pilots in the world are ALPA represented RJ pilots. Where do you find professional pilots earning 19-25k per year? in the USA and they are represented by ALPA. I think ALPA should work hard on fixing their own house first. The only US pilots making good money are those at the top of the pyramid.

A european can go to easyjet or Ryanair for a few years and then find themselves in the left seat of a 787 based in Bangkok making 15k/month. Doesn't sound like a bad gig to me. Compare that to an American who spends a year or two flight instructing for food, then spends nearly a decade making poverty wages in order to land a job with DAL or UAL for 60k/year. After another 20 years or so he/she if they are extremely fortunate will get to the left seat of a 787 making 25k/month. Who is better off in those scenarios? The American who spent his 20's and 30's living in poverty, decent wages in their 40's, and finally the big payoff in their late 50's? Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Guys,

Bit of a reality check. The lowest paid pilots in the world are ALPA represented RJ pilots. Where do you find professional pilots earning 19-25k per year? in the USA and they are represented by ALPA. I think ALPA should work hard on fixing their own house first. The only US pilots making good money are those at the top of the pyramid.

A european can go to easyjet or Ryanair for a few years and then find themselves in the left seat of a 787 based in Bangkok making 15k/month. Doesn't sound like a bad gig to me. Compare that to an American who spends a year or two flight instructing for food, then spends nearly a decade making poverty wages in order to land a job with DAL or UAL for 60k/year. After another 20 years or so he/she if they are extremely fortunate will get to the left seat of a 787 making 25k/month. Who is better off in those scenarios? The American who spent his 20's and 30's living in poverty, decent wages in their 40's, and finally the big payoff in their late 50's? Seems like a no brainer to me.

How is that ALPAs fault? North America has always had the most flying jobs and the best compensation. With all the jobs over here, the airlines could be choosy and squeeze the applicants. Now with new carriers emerging, the supply is not meeting the demand and all salaries will come up. This is a new GOOD Problem to have. With all the regionals telling management to pound sand, they are stepping up to get back what is there.

We had a lost decade in our business and now is the time to get it back. How is it ALPAs fault that kids will get their parents to cough up over 100K to learn to fly knowing it pays peanuts says more about the supply not sweating the pay and blaming the stagnation caused by the last decade on somebody....anybody.

 

[PCL_128]

SWAPA's there, right with ALPA and others fighting this. While I don't know exactly how much money we've "dropped" on the issue (unlike you, I'm actually a pilot and not just a union guy; I don't have the numbers at my fingertips), I do know that SWAPA is very active on the issue. They're reminding us every week to step up on this issue...

...Edit: just noticed Wave's explanation...

So I guess what I'm saying PCL, is that you can probably stop trying to make this yet another "SWAPA-sucks-because-they're-not-ALPA-and-everyone-knows-that-only-ALPA-is-worth-a-sh1t" issue. You know?

Bubba

Talk is free. Show me the money!

 

[bigboeings]

[ByQUOTE=General Lee;2475856]Rumor is 850 this year at DL, and 850 a year for several after that. The other legacies will be hiring too. The Military pool will dry up sooner than later.


Bye Bye---General Lee[/QUOTE]

Got my stuff in at Delta, got one internal recommendation. Still waiting for the phone to ring, the problem is, I'm not former military, my guess anyways.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Last class had only two military in it.....don't worry, the military factor is not as large as rumored.

Good luck Bigboeings

 

[General Lee]

[ByQUOTE=General Lee;2475856]Rumor is 850 this year at DL, and 850 a year for several after that. The other legacies will be hiring too. The Military pool will dry up sooner than later.


Bye Bye---General Lee

The key is the recommendation. If it comes from a DL employee, especially a pilot, they HAVE TO look at it. Seeing your qualifications, I'd bet you get a call sooner than later. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SpauldingSmails]

[ByQUOTE=General Lee;2475856]Rumor is 850 this year at DL, and 850 a year for several after that. The other legacies will be hiring too. The Military pool will dry up sooner than later.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Got my stuff in at Delta, got one internal recommendation. Still waiting for the phone to ring, the problem is, I'm not former military, my guess anyways.[/QUOTE]


Be patient. An acquaintance of mine was just given a June class date after being offered the job at Delta in November. Once HR can start seeing the bottom of the pool, I'm sure phones will start lighting up again.

 

[General Lee]

Got my stuff in at Delta, got one internal recommendation. Still waiting for the phone to ring, the problem is, I'm not former military, my guess anyways.

Be patient. An acquaintance of mine was just given a June class date after being offered the job at Delta in November. Once HR can start seeing the bottom of the pool, I'm sure phones will start lighting up again.[/QUOTE]

Guys interviewed in March are now getting June classes. June and July will now have 100 newhires each. After that, back to 50 per month.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[bigboeings]

Thanks for the update guys. Got to find something soon just to stay current anyways.

 

[uba757]

Thanks for the update guys. Got to find something soon just to stay current anyways.

Good Luck!!!!!! Hope you get a job soon!!!