Norwegian Air International Here They Come

[DUBLINFLYER]

The parent firm of Scandinavian airline Norwegian has pumped another ?46.6m into its new Irish subsidiary as it prepares to use Ireland as the base for its long-haul service, Norwegian Air International (NAI).
US aviation unions have been campaigning heavily in Ireland, the United States and Norway in an effort to prevent NAI from expanding its services to America and from being granted a licence by authorities here that would enable to base its operations in Dublin.
The long-haul service, with aircraft registered in Ireland, already operates routes from Scandinavia to the US and Thailand. From next summer, it plans to fly from London to the US. It has recently asked US authorities for permission to fly to more cities in the country.
NAI has already rented office space near Dublin Airport and hired staff, but it's waiting to be awarded an Air Operator Certificate (AOC) from the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA).
Last weekend, the head of the US-based union umbrella group Transportation Trades Department, Ed Wytkind, wrote to Transport Minister Leo Varadkar urging him to "carefully consider" the implications of awarding NAI an AOC. The Department of Transport has said the matter is being considered and that it would be "inappropriate to comment" at this time. The IAA has declined to comment.

 

[tomgoodman]

Vikings!

Maybe it's time to dust off that old medieval prayer:
"From the fury of the Norsemen, good Lord deliver us." :erm:

 

[General Lee]

There is a similar Nordic airline that already offers cheaper flights from Europe to the US, and that's called Icelandic Air out of KEF. They have been flying 757s via KEF for years, offering connections to Scandanavia and Western Europe for cheap. Last year they added DEN and SEA, and they used to fly a 763 to SFO, which went away.

The thing that is bothersome is the way the company is set up. They have a large 737-800 presence in Europe (and ordered new A320Neos), but those employees do not fly the 787s. Those crew members are based in Thailand or Singapore (FAs). The operating license is in Ireland, but currently they don't plan any flights there. A lot of question marks, and hopefully answers coming soon. If they are allowed to base pilots elsewhere at lower costs, that could present a problem, and it is amazing their European based 737 pilots haven't had more to say about that, I believe they attempted a slow down but the operation is still going.

It seems ALPA and others are protesting, and local countries are now questioning the basing of crew in one country, and hubbing out of another. The Scandinavian countries are asking about evasion of local taxes and workers comp stuff, so we'll see what happens. France doesn't allow stuff like that, ask several European LOCOS (low costs) about that.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

Pilots will work for a Thai "employment firm," with individual 3-year contracts, no seniority, and gag order. This is quite simply a flag-of-convenience operation. They won't even operate any flight from Ireland. We should be very worried.

 

[General Lee]

Pilots will work for a Thai "employment firm," with individual 3-year contracts, no seniority, and gag order. This is quite simply a flag-of-convenience operation. They won't even operate any flight from Ireland. We should be very worried.

We should look into it, no doubt. But, the World will be experiencing a pilot shortage, and if these contracts suck, pilots will abandon them quickly. There are already agencies like PARC that offer contracts to carriers all around the World. To me it's amazing their own 738 pilots haven't raised more objections.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Trying to go down the same path the cruise lines did.

Ship is registered in Iberia and crewed with the cheapest labor they can find.....anywhere in the world.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

All the pilots working this contract are from the EU with JAA licenses, http://www.rishworthaviation.com/page/2362/fly-with-norwegian-long-haul.aspx

Not the best paid contract out there but not bad, similar T&C'S than the KAL contract, commuting conditions are offered but for what I understand is in coach (many commuting contracts offering business class now a days) with the EU pilot job market being so slow and the allure of going from the 737 to the 787 (as one of the pilots that I know working there did) they are not having trouble finding people.

 

[bafanguy]

All the pilots working this contract are from the EU with JAA licenses...

...they are not having trouble finding people.

Does this NOT pretty much tell the whole story about pilot supply ?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Does this NOT pretty much tell the whole story about pilot supply ?

Not really, what it says is that the market in the EU is still pretty bad with the only jobs available being those of the Easyjets and the Ryanair's.

If you look in other markets for example, Jestar Japan, Peach, Vanilla Air all have A/C's parked because of lack of crews, they are desperately trying not to have to up the contract but it's just not going to work, if they don't up the pay they will have a lot of trouble. The pilot job market is getting pretty tight in Asia, and companies like Vietjet just announcing a purchase of 63 new Airbus doesn't help, the Chinese are driving the pay up with some of the contracts they are offering and new companies being formed in the region are trying to lure pilots to jump ship.

 

[General Lee]

Not really, what it says is that the market in the EU is still pretty bad with the only jobs available being those of the Easyjets and the Ryanair's.

If you look in other markets for example, Jestar Japan, Peach, Vanilla Air all have A/C's parked because of lack of crews, they are desperately trying not to have to up the contract but it's just not going to work, if they don't up the pay they will have a lot of trouble. The pilot job market is getting pretty tight in Asia, and companies like Vietjet just announcing a purchase of 63 new Airbus doesn't help, the Chinese are driving the pay up with some of the contracts they are offering and new companies being formed in the region are trying to lure pilots to jump ship.

I agree. A lot of the Air Asia Japan 320 pilots went over to Skymark. A friend of mine on the 330 said there were 3-4 Jetstar Japan 320s parked on a pad each time he flew in there over a few trips. Throw in rapid expansion at Lion Air, Air Asia, Cebu Pacific, and most of the Chinese airlines, and a pilot shortage is assured there. Next watch expats from the US go back to the States from their current INTL airlines as the big 3 US airlines look to fill jobs for 15,000 exiting retiring pilots. Even Boxjockey, an expat flying 777s for Cathay, is inquiring about a certain LCC in that section of FI, saying he wants out of HKG. Many would say that would be a dream job, but obviously where you are based and local terms and conditions can't out weigh the want to "come home."


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mercyful Fate]

I agree. A lot of the Air Asia Japan 320 pilots went over to Skymark. A friend of mine on the 330 said there were 3-4 Jetstar Japan 320s parked on a pad each time he flew in there over a few trips. Throw in rapid expansion at Lion Air, Air Asia, Cebu Pacific, and most of the Chinese airlines, and a pilot shortage is assured there. Next watch expats from the US go back to the States from their current INTL airlines as the big 3 US airlines look to fill jobs for 15,000 exiting retiring pilots. Even Boxjockey, an expat flying 777s for Cathay, is inquiring about a certain LCC in that section of FI, saying he wants out of HKG. Many would say that would be a dream job, but obviously where you are based and local terms and conditions can't out weigh the want to "come home."


Bye Bye---General Lee

You don't have friends dumbass. Nice for a anonymous forum board to help create your own little fantasy land

 

[General Lee]

You don't have friends dumbass. Nice for a anonymous forum board to help create your own little fantasy land

You add NOTHING, only slam. Loser!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Next watch expats from the US go back to the States from their current INTL airlines as the big 3 US airlines look to fill jobs for 15,000 exiting retiring pilots. Even Boxjockey, an expat flying 777s for Cathay, is inquiring about a certain LCC in that section of FI, saying he wants out of HKG. Many would say that would be a dream job, but obviously where you are based and local terms and conditions can't out weigh the want to "come home."

Totally disagree......, it's all related to age and you will see many pilots that are mid 40's or less looking for jobs back in the US, but you will not see significant numbers of the pilots that are older than that going back to the bottom of the pile well within an economical hiccup or the wrong side of a merger away to being on the best case scenario, stuck making half of what they are making now. I don't see significant numbers at all of the older crowd applying to jobs in the US, there is always movement in the international market because the advantage of taking your experience and make a lateral or up movement, pilots that are tired of their current gigs for one reason or another will just go take a DEC position somewhere else. Not only that, if many more airlines abroad offer reverse rosters in western cities like NCA, Air China, China Southern are doing and like other airlines I know for a fact are considering doing, you will actually see many pilots flying for legacies today that are 50+ taking early retirement and taking DEC jobs with commuting conditions or reverse rostering on US cities, it's happening now actually, I get a LOT of inquiries from guys looking to do just that.

 

[johnsonrod]

Since NLH already hired a 100+ flight attendants based in the US, I bet that offering US-based pilot jobs on the shiny new 787s would probably get significant interest (if that is legally possible).

NLH seems to be stimulating a new market of super-cheap flyers who can't afford the normal legacy carriers. You probably won't find many business passengers on those flights.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

You probably won't find many business passengers on those flights.

But you will find an incredible amount of new middle class folks that are beginning to explore the world, when you see companies like Vietjet buying 63 new airplanes that is a powerful indication of the projected growth on travelers of emerging economies around the world. Even on our side of the globe, South America is experiencing the largest growth of middle class around the world after Asia!

 

[scoreboardII]

But you will find an incredible amount of new middle class folks that are beginning to explore the world, when you see companies like Vietjet buying 63 new airplanes that is a powerful indication of the projected growth on travelers of emerging economies around the world. Even on our side of the globe, South America is experiencing the largest growth of middle class around the world after Asia!

Or it's an indication of some foolish CEO with a few billion to burn and wants to start his own airline, how hard could that be, look what SWA did, right?

 

[bafanguy]

...what it says is that the market in the EU is still pretty bad with the only jobs available being those of the Easyjets and the Ryanair's.

...the Chinese are driving the pay up with some of the contracts they are offering and new companies being formed in the region are trying to lure pilots to jump ship.

Just a curious sideline observer here but if the above is the case, why wouldn't those people taking the Norway deal pass it up if it's substandard and go for a more lucrative Asian contract ?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Just a curious sideline observer here but if the above is the case, why wouldn't those people taking the Norway deal pass it up if it's substandard and go for a more lucrative Asian contract ?

Why would somebody go to Hawaiian instead of Delta, Why don't I leave this contract in Japan and go to China? After all I could earn 5K more a month right? So can somebody that goes to DAL rather than HA...! We are all different and want different things in life, your job choices are no different. The fact remains that demand in one area puts strain on the entire market, that's the point I wanted to make.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Why would somebody go to Hawaiian instead of Delta, Why don't I leave this contract in Japan and go to China? After all I could earn 5K more a month right? So can somebody that goes to DAL rather than HA...! We are all different and want different things in life, your job choices are no different. The fact remains that demand in one area puts strain on the entire market, that's the point I wanted to make.

Way to rationalize your not getting the call......

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Way to rationalize your not getting the call......

LOL! Nope, the point was about choices not poor interview skills.......! After all, you could say that the reason as to why I'm in Japan IS because I was hired too many times!