Northwest trying to outsource pilots!

[pilotyip]

REz O, this is a pilot board, stop dealing in reality

 

[AA717driver]

You guys are a hoot!

You act like everything would be ok if MY side were in control in D.C. It's not a case of "either/or". It's us against them.

This country is ruled by an oligarchy of the wealthy who control the politicians by throwing them some crumbs (in the form of the politician ending up with a net worth of several million dollars at the end of his or her career) so long as they stay in line and do their bidding.

Congressman's wives are placed on corporate boards of directors with absolutely NO qualifications. Others become partners in prestigous law firms after their terms are up without having ever practiced law. Politicians are rewarded for making it possible for the wealthy to increase their wealth. This comes at the detriment of those of us who just want to have a decent life and enjoy ourselves a little before we croak.

The politicians do what they need to do to stay in office. They spend like drunken sailors (their retirements and medical benefits are secure, unlike ours) in order to placate the voters. They leave loopholes in every law to allow their benefactors to continue with business as usual. They get in front of the camera and pontificate--doing battle with those evil (insert political party here) on the other side of the aisle to make it seem that they are 'fighting the good fight' to protect their constituents. They do whatever it takes to maintain the status quo.

Our jobs are being outsourced because people in Asia are willing to do it cheaper. That adds to the corporate bottom line which adds to the bank accounts of the wealthy. Part of this is our fault. Our labor contracts make it much more expensive to use us. The American auto industry is on its last legs because of both ineffeciency of the working agreements and low quality. Same with the legacy airlines. The performance at those airlines didn't increase with better CBA's. It just got more expensive to operate.

So go ahead and cheer for your team. Revel in his or her victory. Then sit back and watch how your life improves... Or not.TC

 

[Thedude]

General-

Champion is NOT owned by NWA.

It is a separate and independent airline.

Like Sun Country, it has a MSP crew base, quite convienent for NWA management.

320AV8R

That is not completely true. Champion is kinda owned by NWA, but not on paper. In reality NWA really pulls the strings, so seperate and independent go too.

 

[Thedude]

The cat was let out of the bag with NWA flying mainline routes with Champion crews and aircraft.....

320AV8R

I believe that only happened one time on one route with one aircraft.

 

[pipe]

As an ex TWA guy, I was hoping that Delta would buy NW and staple Duane Woerthless as the bottom co-pilot. It appears however that he may be junior to some new-hire Thai crew. He should call ALPA -- they should be able to square this travesty away for him.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As an ex TWA guy, I was hoping that Delta would buy NW and staple Duane Woerthless as the bottom co-pilot. It appears however that he may be junior to some new-hire Thai crew. He should call ALPA -- they should be able to square this travesty away for him.

Right on!! Then he'd take that pay cut that most of you despertly crave just to make things right!!

 

[Rogue5]

Strength in Unity?

Finally got to the new Air Line Pilot mag and just about choked on my Cheerios trying to swallow the spin regarding the NWA MX strike.

Check out the horrendous ironically-titled article "Northwest and Champion Pilots Show True Strength in Unity," and catch the last two paragraphs after two pages of unity grandstanding:

But what about interunion unity? Why did a pilot sympathy strike to support the mechanics not materialize? Ironically, it was for other “strength in unity” reasons, in the wake of the pilots’ hefty pay concessions in December 2004 to keep Northwest afloat.

“Crossing another union’s picket line is obviously distasteful to us,” F/O Myers says. “But we’ve been trying for two years to get the other Northwest unions to join with us in creating a solution to Northwest’s cost problems. If we had joined in a sympathy strike, Northwest management very likely would have grounded operations and filed for Chapter 11 immediately. And we still think that, if we can get through these tough times, Northwest can avoid Chapter 11, but only through a joint solution. A sympathy strike would have closed the door on that.”

Weeks later, the company is in Chap. 11 anyway, one union is dead and the others are completely unable to rely on each other's support, and NWA management is coming after each group, one at a time.

Divide and conquer, right?

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Right on!! Then he'd take that pay cut that most of you despertly crave just to make things right!!

Rez, Rez, Rez...you just don't get it because of your blind cheerleading of ALPA.

Excellent and effective leaders are those that lead, NOT manage, by example. While Airline management has failed to follow this very basic management philosophy, so too has ALPA National leadership, starting with Duane. Whether or not you agree, ALPA National has turned into a political atmosphere. Duane and his friends are only interested in preserving status quo for themselves. To think otherwise is delusional.

Duane and company should take a paycut just like everyone else if they are true to their beliefs in supporting airline pilots. In fact, I think Duane should only receive an ALPA-based salary, in addition to his NWA pay, that is an average of the three lowest paid Regional Captains.

ALPA Leadership has a golden opportunity to enhance their credibility during these trying times. Accepting a paycut is the right, fair, and honorable action.

I'm sure you'll disagree with me and that's fine. I'm just tired of the "rah-rah, GO ALPA" cheerleading.

HMM

 

[Draginass]

Right on!! Then he'd take that pay cut that most of you despertly crave just to make things right!!

Don't worry. Duane has "his" full share of the pie regardless of what happens at NWA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, Rez, Rez...you just don't get it because of your blind cheerleading of ALPA.

Excellent and effective leaders are those that lead, NOT manage, by example. While Airline management has failed to follow this very basic management philosophy, so too has ALPA National leadership, starting with Duane. Whether or not you agree, ALPA National has turned into a political atmosphere. Duane and his friends are only interested in preserving status quo for themselves. To think otherwise is delusional.

Duane and company should take a paycut just like everyone else if they are true to their beliefs in supporting airline pilots. In fact, I think Duane should only receive an ALPA-based salary, in addition to his NWA pay, that is an average of the three lowest paid Regional Captains.

ALPA Leadership has a golden opportunity to enhance their credibility during these trying times. Accepting a paycut is the right, fair, and honorable action.

I'm sure you'll disagree with me and that's fine. I'm just tired of the "rah-rah, GO ALPA" cheerleading.

HMM

Nope, No blind cheerleading of ALPA. The problem is I've taken time to inform myself, so when I speak to the issue, I come across as an ALPA cheerleader.

The ALPA National Guys have taken paycuts. There are ALPA National guys from UAL, USAIR and DAL. Pensions...gone! Pay...slashed.

When NWA takes their (2nd) cuts and gives up their pension, that will include DW.

You guys are so pissed off you don't even know who to fight... You need a good b1tch slapping like Denzel in Glory.

The general ALPA membership is so ignorant, paranoid and skeptical they are like poor Iraqi's... can't read so they count on street stories.

ALPA National has turned into a political atmosphere

Case and point. Get educated...it will do all of us good....

 

[Max Powers]

Lewshun.

Very good analogy - denzel and Iraqis that is- Hillarious too.

 

[ultrarunner]

as long as the flight arrives on time and tickets remain dirt cheap, they won't care?

BINGO....there you go jetexas.

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Rez,

You say Duane will take a paycut when NWA Pilots take a paycut. I say he should set an example now and take a self-imposed paycut instead of waiting for a BK court-enforced paycut. Duane is THE face of ALPA. Who cares about the rest of National leadership (even though they still get an ALPA salary) when Duane is still making over $400k while his average line-pilot union "brothers" are in the process of taking or have taken huge concessions.

Maybe it's time for National leadership to mirror local MEC's/LEC's leadership - be all volunteer. No compensation from ALPA - they would only receive their Airline salary.

Some friendly advice - I'd be really careful making presumptions that you are "right" and the rest of us are wrong regarding ALPA. Your belief of being "right" might come back to haunt you.

HMM

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,

You say Duane will take a paycut when NWA Pilots take a paycut. I say he should set an example now and take a self-imposed paycut instead of waiting for a BK court-enforced paycut. Duane is THE face of ALPA. Who cares about the rest of National leadership (even though they still get an ALPA salary) when Duane is still making over $400k while his average line-pilot union "brothers" are in the process of taking or have taken huge concessions.

Maybe it's time for National leadership to mirror local MEC's/LEC's leadership - be all volunteer. No compensation from ALPA - they would only receive their Airline salary.

Some friendly advice - I'd be really careful making presumptions that you are "right" and the rest of us are wrong regarding ALPA. Your belief of being "right" might come back to haunt you.

HMM

HMM,

You don't even know how the ALPA National pay structure is set up. How can I discuss the issue with you?

Name your source that DW is making 400K.

Tell us how you think the ALPA National salaries are structured and set up.

If a ALPA Nat'l (president) paycut was appropriate, how would it be accomplished? What is the process for changing the salary?

If DW is useless then who should take his place? If ALPA Prez salary should be the same as the avg. line pilot then what incentive does the avg. line pilot have to be a ALPA Nat'l Officer (president)?

Ok, ok, fine... instead of arguing your lack of understanding, I went to the ALPA Constitution and By Laws and did some fact finding (for you). In addition, I know how to resource information so I can speak to the issue intelligently. Got issue with DW salary? Take it up with the BOD. But to actually do this, you'd have to get informed! Getting informed and educated isn't as exciting and fun as FlightInfo 0ne-up-manship and who has more wit posting, but then again if you want to be positive contributor to the system, then maybe its time to log off.....

Article I
SECTION 22 ‑ SALARY OF OFFICERS

There shall be no salary paid to any officer, except as provided in Article X.


Article X
SECTION 5 ‑ SALARY

The Presidency of the Association shall be a full-time position with an annual salary. The salary of the President and method of payment shall be established by the Board of Directors during the meeting at which he is elected or reelected. His salary may be adjusted or supplemented by retirement, annuity payments, or other monetary benefits approved by the Board of Directors in session.
​

And after you cut DW salary, then what? Sure you'll feel better, but is his salary really the problem here? Do you need to bring someone down, just to make yourself feel better?

I have an idea what the ALPA Pres. position requires. I'd like to have someone in there that knows how to play the Wash DC game. Your avg. line pilot is useless in DC. Just like our pax want qualified pilots up front, I want a qualified politican in Wash DC.

HMM- some friendly advice. It is not about me or you being right or wrong. (reference my one-up-manship line above). It is about the facts. Dealing with the issues and leaving out the emotion and out cry for instant gratification.

Get informed. The ignorance is eroding us from within.....