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Northwest to declare Chapter 11 in 3, 2, 1. . .

T

Towelie

Look at it this way:

- Oil is over $70 a barrell and on its way to $90

- NWA said for every $1 increase in oil it costs them $50 million a year

- NWA gave their pilots their "wish list" for 1,100 furloughs and no more scope

- DC-9's just keep getting older and eating up gas

- AMFA is being broken resulting in no more union for the mechanics


With that said, it will only be a matter of days before NWA declares bankruptcy. When they do, they will get:

- The ability to make scope go away

- The ability to give Mesaba the right to operate 70 and/or 90 seaters

- The ability to force cuts on every group

- The ability to farm out more domestic flying to focus on international flying


I really don't see this playing out any other way. It also gives credance to the rise in the 70-seat rumors at Mesaba.

New planes are great, unless they come at the expense of our own future and our brothers at NWA. Things are about to get very ugly in the red tail family.
 

Dodge

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They'll get ugly for sure, but I still think that the pilots will give up scope to save their retirement for the wide body captains. This is very unfortunate for our profession, but the order for 50 seaters could definatety be turned into 70 seaters. Of course, mainline pilots will blame us even though their union supported such an action and we had absolutely no say in anything. And of course we would get paid the same rates for the 70 as the 50 as they are the same type.
 

Butters

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Three things I will never see again would be my weight at 160 lbs., gas for $1.50 a gallon, and the jumpseat on NWA.

I agree, Dodge. If we start flying 70 seaters regardless of how the deal is worked out, we will never see another jumpseat on NWA. Those guys will certainly take it out on us.

I'm not whining, by the way. They have a right to be mad. I just hate that all shizzle flows down hizzle.
 

suupah

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fa rizzle ma nizzle?


by the way...why does snoop always carry an umbrella?







drizzle
 

kmox29

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suupah said:
fa rizzle ma nizzle?

by the way...why does snoop always carry an umbrella?

drizzle

I dunno, but he's got the sweetest golf swing I have ever seen!
 

keith

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70 seaters ??

Dodge,

Just thinking here....but if, and thats a big IF,NWA decided to give 70-seaters to Mesaba why would we have to fly it for 50-seat pay?

NWA could just give them to NWA pilots at their agreed upon wages.

or

Give them to Pinnacle. Assuming Pinnacle can manage the additional growth.

Hopefully Mesaba would demand "better-than-Avro" pay for any new jets with more seats than the Avro.

-Keith
 

Butters

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keith said:
Dodge,

Just thinking here....but if, and thats a big IF,NWA decided to give 70-seaters to Mesaba why would we have to fly it for 50-seat pay?

NWA could just give them to NWA pilots at their agreed upon wages.

Won't happen. Too expensive for NWA to fly them at all.

keith said:
or

Give them to Pinnacle. Assuming Pinnacle can manage the additional growth.

Pinnacle can't handle the growth. Mesaba has already been covering Pinnacle by picking up flights they can't staff with Saab flights. NWA is not happy with Pinnacle right now due to 3701, MKE, SOC problems, under-staffing, etc. No flame there, just reality.

keith said:
Hopefully Mesaba would demand "better-than-Avro" pay for any new jets with more seats than the Avro.

-Keith

There is no 70-seat payscale at Mesaba yet. It would have to be negotiated. I think what Dodge was saying is that NWA/Mesaba would force the issue. If NWA is bankrupt we could get the planes if... It won't be at 50 seat rates but it probably wouldn't be for more than Avro pay either. Again, just reality.

Our new VP who came from Champion and NWA (all in the family, once again) says Mesaba will have 70-90 seat jets in the next year. Far from a guarantee however I'm sure he knows something we don't. He said Pinnacle has ticked off NWA with their operation and with trying to get a separate certificate to fly 70 seaters outside of NWA. Apparently they aren't too happy with Pinnacle so the new bigger jets would most likely go to Mesaba.
 

kmox29

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keith said:
Dodge,

Hopefully Mesaba would demand "better-than-Avro" pay for any new jets with more seats than the Avro.

-Keith

Any jet that would come to Mesaba that has more than 69 seats would require an opening of Section 3 of our contract since we have no pay rate for those types of aircraft. And yes, it would be more than the Avro.
 

JohnyChimpo99

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I just heard today that AWAC is talking with NWA for a home for some of their 50 seaters. We have heard this NWA rumor alot over here, but this one might have some truth. US Airways wants us to bid on 27 E190's, but we need to get rid of one 50 for every 90 seat we get. We are also up against CHQ and Mesa for these aircraft orders, so not holding my breath. Rumor has it that NWA told AWAC that they don't want to finance any more aircraft for Pinnacle and might need some of our 50 seaters to fill the gap. Might only be rumor.
 

kmox29

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JohnyChimpo99 said:
I just heard today that AWAC is talking with NWA for a home for some of their 50 seaters. We have heard this NWA rumor alot over here, but this one might have some truth. US Airways wants us to bid on 27 E190's, but we need to get rid of one 50 for every 90 seat we get. We are also up against CHQ and Mesa for these aircraft orders, so not holding my breath. Rumor has it that NWA told AWAC that they don't want to finance any more aircraft for Pinnacle and might need some of our 50 seaters to fill the gap. Might only be rumor.

Wow. That post listed at least 6 airlines and possibly 3 or 4 different rumors. You need to spread them out a little. If NWA had their druthers, they would finance everything they could and give it to Pinnacle or Mesaba. We supply all the cheap labor, pay all the aircraft leases, and make Big Red Tail a crapload of money.
 

JohnyChimpo99

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The only rumor in this is weather NWA and AWAC are talking. The E190 statment is true and has been confirmed by our managment. All the US Airways non-wholly owned airlines are bidding on 27 E190's but have to swap 1/1 with their 50 seaters.
 

DoinTime

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NWA makes a TON of money off of subleasing aircraft. I would assume that NWA paid something close (if not less) to market rates for CRJ leases. This is just short of $100,000/month. NWA turns around and charges PCL up around $190,000/month for these same aircraft.

If NWA goes into bankruptcy though they will probably not be able to secure very good (if any) terms on new leases. They may have to look outside of te current NW family or require an existing Airlink partner to purchase aircraft for themselves.
 

foreverfo

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JohnyChimpo99 said:
The only rumor in this is weather NWA and AWAC are talking. The E190 statment is true and has been confirmed by our managment. All the US Airways non-wholly owned airlines are bidding on 27 E190's but have to swap 1/1 with their 50 seaters.

That being Mesa, Chaniqua, Republic and who else? Rebublic Airlines used to be a descent name until bought by NWA...coincidence?
 

Dodge

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kmox29 said:
Any jet that would come to Mesaba that has more than 69 seats would require an opening of Section 3 of our contract since we have no pay rate for those types of aircraft. And yes, it would be more than the Avro.

That's what should happen. If 70 seaters show up, we will see. I believe our MEC has agreed to some pretty wild things for larger jets in years gone by. I also believe that the DC-9 pilots at NW get paid the same for that little -10 as they do for the -50, but they also have a payscale for all types of aircraft, unlike our contract.
 

Napoleon TNT

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I can see the Mgmt argument...

"Well, sure, but, um, actually, the Avro is an aircraft designed for 85 seats, so a CRJ-700 should be at a rate significantly lower than the Avro."

That's not what I am advocating, just what I can see happen.
 

T-handle

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Rough67 said:
Butters said:
I agree, Dodge. If we start flying 70 seaters regardless of how the deal is worked out, we will never see another jumpseat on NWA. Those guys will certainly take it out on us.

No we won't.. (i mean we if i do get back someday)

Just in the last few months I've had rough jumpseat experiences onboard -9s and 320s.

What's one of the first questions an NWA driver asks you when you ride with them?.................. 'What aircraft are you on?'
 
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