Northwest Flight Attendants Reject Second Tentative Agreement

[Lear70]

Oh, OK. So we should have simply refused to move one inch from our prior industry-leadi[ng scope despite what is happening to scope at other bankrupt and non-bankrupt legacy's.

Yup.

I'm sure the BANKRUPTCY judge would have appreciated that position and ruled in our favor, since labor has such tremendous leverage in the BANKRUPTCY court. So we should have struck, if the judge allowed it, and then Gary Wilson would have given us anything to stop it(flashback 1998 when non-Bankrupt NWA was making record profits and took a strike vs give us 3% raise).

NWA took a strike, then negotiated MUCH better than their "last best pre-strike offer", or don't you remember that part?

You're absolutely right, you should have walked. As should UAL, USAirways, and DAL pilots. Even if the judge declared it illegal and ordered you back to work, what's he going to do? Issue arrest warrants for THOUSANDS of pilots?

No way, no how, fuhgedaboudit.

The ultimate excuse of the mainline pilots. They negotiate the erosion of their QOL, they negotiate the out sourcing of their flying, they bring the bar lower each time. And then turn around and point fingers at the people that accept the positions that THEY CREATED.
You where too chicken $hit to fight and die for your rights while accepting mediocre conditions and at the same time putting language that hurt Mesaba jobs directly while accepting what your MEC said It would be a "Die on this hill issue" Newco.
Hypocrisy at its best

BINGO !!!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

PCL_128 The battle to save this profession has to be from the bottom up. You can say the mainline pilot has sold you out, however, I want to point out a few issuess. 9E and XJ have a shortage of pilots, if NWA were to start hiring we would get at least 10,000 applications from you regional guys in the first 2 days from when the news was announced. Mainline was not profitable in fact it was losing $4 million a day, a large amount of which was paid to you guys at a loss; further weaking the bargining position of the mainline. 9E and XJ were profitable and are still profitable yet your wages could be sliding. If you can't capitalize on your own fortunes, how do expect someone to do it for you?

Now both 9E and XJ are in a position to walk out tomorrow and cripple the NWA operation. Is that not enough to bargin for the scope you so desperately seek? I have said on here time and time again brand scope would save this profession, however, it seems a useless battle; the more we try to save it, the more of it goes away. For God sakes SWA is about to give up widebody scope to another airline.

The problem we had with striking now as opposed to 98 was the fact that in 98 the company wasn't going anywhere. Today a strike would have finished the airline. The wages were still livable that we had to choose today. The choice of no income verses a top middle class income is a no brainer. You guys however are in a fight against wages that not even Mcdonalds employees would accept. This is not the fault of mainline pilots.

 

[DTW320]

PCL_128 The battle to save this profession has to be from the bottom up. You can say the mainline pilot has sold you out, however, I want to point out a few issuess. 9E and XJ have a shortage of pilots, if NWA were to start hiring we would get at least 10,000 applications from you regional guys in the first 2 days from when the news was announced. Mainline was not profitable in fact it was losing $4 million a day, a large amount of which was paid to you guys at a loss; further weaking the bargining position of the mainline. 9E and XJ were profitable and are still profitable yet your wages could be sliding. If you can't capitalize on your own fortunes, how do expect someone to do it for you?

Now both 9E and XJ are in a position to walk out tomorrow and cripple the NWA operation. Is that not enough to bargin for the scope you so desperately seek? I have said on here time and time again brand scope would save this profession, however, it seems a useless battle; the more we try to save it, the more of it goes away. For God sakes SWA is about to give up widebody scope to another airline.

The problem we had with striking now as opposed to 98 was the fact that in 98 the company wasn't going anywhere. Today a strike would have finished the airline. The wages were still livable that we had to choose today. The choice of no income verses a top middle class income is a no brainer. You guys however are in a fight against wages that not even Mcdonalds employees would accept. This is not the fault of mainline pilots.

BINGO !!!

 

[canyonblue]

For God sakes SWA is about to give up widebody scope to another airline.

Not going to happen.

 

[Skybus]

What i the hell does all of this have to do with NW F/As??? Other than perhaps the fact that they are the only ones left with any balls.

 

[DTW320]

NWA took a strike, then negotiated MUCH better than their "last best pre-strike offer", or don't you remember that part?

In your own words: "Put down the crack pipe". I walked in 98. Did you? Whatever fantasies you conjured at 9E and now Airtran are quite vivid. Please elaborate on the exact improvements reached that ended the strike under pressure from Bruce Lindsey and the Clinton admin. Thanks....since you know all about the differences between the prestrike offer and the final TA. I was there.....you were flyin a Lear somewhere.

You're absolutely right, you should have walked. As should UAL, USAirways, and DAL pilots. Even if the judge declared it illegal and ordered you back to work, what's he going to do? Issue arrest warrants for THOUSANDS of pilots?

How bout a multi-million dollar fine for ALPA that would be passed down to every pilot on the property? Ask your AA buds about that.

 

[DTW320]

Your own Council 20 Chairman recommended a NO vote and stated that you are facilitating the furloughs of your own pilots with this new scope language. What a shame that more people didn't listen to him.

Ray's a great guy but he never offered an alternative plan and therefore even his own constituints approved the deal.

Recalls start in October.....Thanks for your concern!

 

[DTW320]

The ultimate excuse of the mainline pilots. They negotiate the erosion of their QOL, they negotiate the out sourcing of their flying, they bring the bar lower each time. And then turn around and point fingers at the people that accept the positions that THEY CREATED.
You where too chicken $hit to fight and die for your rights while accepting mediocre conditions and at the same time putting language that hurt Mesaba jobs directly while accepting what your MEC said It would be a "Die on this hill issue" Newco.
Hypocrisy at its best

Sorry, Thanks for playing! Please try again soon!

Newco did not happen. If you knew NWA's definition of Newco and compared it to the TA you would have a CHANCE of not looking like a complete idiot here.

Didn't blame anyone for taking a job. Told PCL_128 that if he feels so strongly that we should have fallen on our swords over Scope, scope that is still far better than other BANKRUPT airlines, that maybe he has a conflict of interest as a Captain of one of the RJ's that he blames for all the problems.

Dumb Pilot:Appropriate FlightInfo User Name selecting at its best!

 

[320AV8R]

Trust me, I did the comparison long ago. There are certainly differences in the original NewCo proposal and what eventually became Compass, but you seem to be missing my central point here: any scope concessions were unneccessary and a huge mistake!!! The problem that we have is called "seat-creep." Every few years management comes back and demands "just a few more seats, that's all." Eventually there will be nothing left. You don't seem to understand that management is carrying out a long-term campaign of eliminating all narrow-body mainline jobs in favor of outsourcing. They take 5 seat here, and 4 seats there, and now you've given up airplanes that are the exact same size as the DC-9-10s that were flown by your pilots just a couple of years ago. In a few years they'll want to outsource airplanes that are the same size as the DC-9-50s that you're flying now. It never stops until you stand up for yourselves and lay it all on the line.

Did you read my previous post?

Mesaba gets the first 35 jets.

Then there can be some more…..AND THEN MAINLINE……M-A-I-N-L-I-N-E……HAS TO GET THEM ACCORDING TO A F#&**IN RATIO. WE HAVE THE MOST RESTRICTIVE, R-E-S-T-R-I-C-T-I-V-E SCOPE IN THE God damned INDUSTRY. But I guess it is not good enough for you. We should have improved on it.

Go back & study your NEWCO sh!t buddy.

COMPASS is a f#^*in FAR CRY from Mgmt’s NEWCO proposal. But your career expectations aren’t being met, so it’s OUR FAULT. How much f#&**in leverage do you thinhk NWA or UAL or DAL or USAir had in CHAPTER 11, Section 1113C of the FEDERAL BANKRUPTCY, (read B-A-N-K-R-U-P-T-C-Y) code? Hmmmmm? Why do you think they call it BANKRUPTCY? Because the corporation is BANKRUPT. NO MONEY. NO MULAH. NO COIN. NADA. NUTTIN.

So, we “held the line” as well as we could have, by coming out with THE MOST RESTRICTIVE SCOPE IN THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY…….& you’re not satisfied. Sorry. Maybe you can supply us with a group of top-notch negotiators, & we’ll fix the problem.

Let those without sin cast the first f*#^in stone.

 

[nwaredtail]

WRONG, the first 36 jets are to replace Mesaba's AVRO's. Mesaba will not necessarily fly them............

Get it right if you are going to argue.