Non U.S. Citizen background check

[chrisdahut24]

Hey all

Just wondering if anyone knows what the background check involves before getting hired at an airline these days? I've heard all sorts of rumours, and can't seem to find any detailed information on the net. The latest one is that you have to wait 45 days before starting training, and then you have to be "grounded" every 6 months to do a background check, AGAIN!!, which can last two weeks! This all sounds just a tad absurd, but certainly wouldn't surprise me. However, what concerns me more is: are the regionals hiring non U.S. citizens (greencard holders/permanent residents) due to the hassle and obvious cost involved with these "security" procedures? Obviously any HR person I talk to is going to tell me "sure, we don't discriminate!" for fear of being slapped with a big lawsuit. But of course they could always fail you on some portion of the interview if they wanted to. Anyone know of any permanent residents who have been hired recently at any regional? Anyone have first hand knowledge of whats involved with the security checks? Please only answer if you know for sure or are reasonably sure of the answer....I appreciate getting peoples opinions, but I need hard facts on this issue.

Thanks in advance!

 

[mikkotokko]

before training in any aircraft > 12500 MGTW any non US citizen has to submit to a background check administered by the DOJ (Aviation Transportation Security Act Section 113). The process is kicked off by registering at https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov and then submitting 18 web pages worth of personal data. Before starting with the process you need to already have a training provider lined up. The process cannot be started without being recognized by a training provider. Training providers can be airlines that sponsor your training or providers like FlightSafety, Simcom etc. where you fund your own training.
After having submitted your data through the web site, you will have to wait for a notification to submit fingerprints. That can take as long as the government wants it to take. There is NO time limit on this step. AFTER having submitted fingerprints the government has a max. of 45 days to complete the process.
I know all this first hand because I am in the middle of the process. Submitted my data through the web site in March and am still waiting for the notification to submit fingerprints. I am a legal permanant resident. Good luck!

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

If you want my advice, here it comes.

Get your Citizenship as fast as you can, because no airline out there is gonna choose an applicant like you (requiring more paperwork and time delay) when they have a 100 others waiting for the seat.

I lived in this country for 11 years (since I was 14) and never bothered with a citizenship (stupid me).

I had my resume walked in to Commutair, one to Chautauqua, and one by a captain at Comair. I have 3100TT and 1300ME, and still can't get an interview. Wonder why?

I'm now 3 months away from my US Citizenship (it takes at least 8 months of paperwork from INS), finally ...

Best Luck
L

 

[upndsky]

I agree that it's best to get your citizenship ASAP, but I don't see how this has kept you from getting interviews. Unless you specifically state on your resume or cover letter that you are foreign, there is no reason for the HR person to know you're not a U.S. citizen. Since you've been here for a while, I assume that your resume has enough American employers on it so as not to stand out from others in a negative way.

What happens after an interview is another story alltogether, of course. Legally, the airlines can't deny you a job for this reason but try to prove that in court.

Without trying to probe too deep into your personal life, what is your ethnic background? If it is Middle Eastern, perhaps your name could be sending so-called red flags at HR. I don't think that's right, but that may be an explanation. That, or you could just be like thousands of others, citizens and non-citizens alike, who have the qualificiations but are wondering why they haven't gotten a call. I would venture to guess it is the latter. Comutair and Chautauqua require internal recommendations and Comair requires a bunch of Part 121 time, regardless of who walks it in (exceptions being the Academy graduates, but that's a whole different thread).

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

Hey, maybe I am exaggerating a bit about my situation, but it is somewhat true. I know a guy at Commutair and he told me two people were stopped from training for a particular class date because they weren't US citizens.

I'm from Europe, so I don't think that should scare them that much.

Anyways, I still believe that when they hire people, they'd rather take people that make it easy on paperwork, and not having a US C. certainly doesn't make it any easier...

good luck with your job search

 

[blott]

(exceptions being the Academy graduates, but that's a whole different thread).

Hey, start a thread on this, you got something against Academy grads?

B

 

[upndsky]

I have no opinion on Academy grads, either way. I just know there are many out there who do and I've been on these boards long enough to know that a thread can easily go off on an unwanted tangent. I wanted to make sure this particular discussion stayed on topic.

There, that is all I have to say on the subject. If you feel the need to expound on this matter, may I suggest the "New Thread" button.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

ummm, I have something aganst them.

I mean after all, after all that brain washing there isn't much left for the real world knowledge, Bwahahaha

Wnat an example? I taught for 700 hours as a CFI. One of my students was an ERAU grad, wanting to get a C172 checkout. I asked him to give me a short field landing - he almost peeled the tires off the rims trying to impress how short he could make it.

After chatting with him a bit, his theory wat that once he got his 1000tt / 100 me, he'd fly as jet FO in CoEx (and that was late 2002 times), why, cause "ERAU had that bridge program they promised him all that." The school didn't even tell the putz that there was still 430 furlough guys before him.

Had enough, threw him out, and that was the end of it. Maybe there are some good guys out there, but that's just a hand full...

 

[limodriver1]

Background check is not that bad!

Background check is not that bad and difficult!

Remember it all depends from individual case!

Yes I went through it in 32 days, without any problems!

Remember, to getting you in to interview depends what you but on your resume!

Maybe you can just forget all the schools what you did in lets say in germany and just but information what are requirements to get hired!

Like times, licenses etc...

Yes you can go to DOJ website called!

https://flightschoolcandidates.gov

and fill out the application, but you really cant submit it before you get hired , since you need your company to call in after you have submit it and validate the document.

Which basicly means that they say for people whom are doing check that you are in class and when class starts and what airplane!

(But remember you can also go and buy your type like in panam and that way you get head start for your background check)

Background check involves following things:

-You submit info
-your airline validates your information
DOJ and FBI does background verification, remember this is where it takes time, so make sure your info is correct. it also depends a little where you from ( yes I know that you can't do anything about that if you are born in Israel ( terrorism) it might take longer than person in Island.
-After they have done this , you need to take fingerprints, usually at your airline but I took them at local police station, DOJ sends you the fingerprint kit. It is old way fingerprinting, with that ugly black stuff in your fingers. Very messy.
-After this it takes around week and you get approval info in email and you are good to go.

Hope this helps and you understand all the elements of this Background check

 

[DC10]

My non US citizen background check took 7 days to complete. The airline sent me a form to sign that authorized a release of my records to the US Dept of Justice, and that was it.

As far as being denied interviews or jobs due to a lack of citizenship, I have never experienced such a problem. In fact in my January 2003 newhire class, out of 14 newhires, 3 of us were Green Card holders.

 

[Shag]

DC-10 : check your PMs, please.

Shag.

 

[pilot1704]

DC10

Hi!

Your background check is different since you already have experience with aircrafts over 12500lbs, it is called expedided backgroung check.

it is more difficult for guys who has no prior experience!

thanks

 

[Spoolup]

Same boat

I too am in the same boat. I have in my resume that I hold full work privis. I don't even get called for an interview........

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

hey Spool
how much longer do you have to wait for a Citizenship ?
It takes either 5 or 6 years of waiting (start time is when you got your green card) before you can start applying, and the whole process takes 8 months to a year to get it).

 

[pilot1704]

get rid of that you have working permit

Hi Spool

you should take that full working priviledges part out from your resume!

But only info what they ask and what are requirements!

obviously you have working permit or you are citizen you apply and if you dont and you apply they find that out later and you just wasted your time by going to interview!

I would recommend to just but , your ratings / licenses, times and thats it, I even left out all my european education, since from that they can see that he is from sweden and maybe is not citizen ....

Of course they find out that in interview that you are immigrant , but at least then it is up to you and you are face to face with these people!

This is just how I did it and have not have any problems!

 

[freightrash]

getting a interview is not a problem but

Personally, im a greencard holder and put x on 'not US citizen' on the application form. But I got a call for the interview with ******. Infact, I failed the interview twice with ******. One was december 2000 which it was pre911. I had insufficient knowledge according to them at that time. Second I had interview 2 years later, this time i built experience with 135 in turbine. But I failed again they did not say why I failed. I belive my status as not US citizen was the unknown main factor. I studied hard and passed all the interview phases. Many my fellow
coworkers at my company got interview with them. most of them got hired. The hiring ratio among my coworkers were near 95%.
May be I had really bad luck. I have approx 8months ahead to get my citizenship then I will try my luck again. The reality is brutal for some innocent people.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

There are many non-citizens at SkyWest. I personally know pilots of Arabic, Asian, European, and South American descent in that category. Your post makes you sound like someone hesitant to accept responsibility for your own performance and actions. I'm just a line pilot voicing an opinion but I think you're way off base in your accusation. The fact that you were called for a second interview pretty much disproves your statement.

 

[CRJ Driver]

If your from the middle east go Fu#$ yourself,go home and ride camels and herd goats!

 

[freightrash]

To the CRJ driver,

First I am not from mid east.
I personally don't have great feeling toward those mideast people either. But I don't curse them. If you are really flying a CRJ, I think you are lucky guy. At lease you have a decent jet job. I belive, some US citizens with your kinda mind is more threat to this great country eventually. Watch out...

ps..I edited my posting not to disclose specific airlines. No offense!
Byt the way,I have so many close buddies at that airline. They bugged the recruting people everyday. I think that brought me to the interview at least. It's impossible to prove anything though.
But that's true there are several airlines that has lower minority ratio than other airlines.

 

[metrodriver]

I heard recently of some foreign (european) guys passing the interview at Skywest and then getting turned down because of their non-citizen status.

 

[freightrash]

Ya that's what I thought!

Thanks metro for supporting my thought.
Actually it was the thing I was really disappointed about
***west airline. Before I belived they are diffrent, really ethical and more focused on humanism than other airlines. But they are same ****.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I think I'll send the interview team a box of chocolates for doing a good job of screening. Most airlines prefer to hire people willing to accept responsibility for their actions and performance. By any chance did you blame an examiner for a checkride you failed if you've ever failed one?
Excuses are like _ _ _ _ _ _ _ s. Everyone has one.

If the company really didn't want to hire you based on citizenship status why would you have been called back for a second interview? It's pretty obvious they wanted to give you another shot.

One of our foreign pilots that I know interviewed twice.

 

[freightrash]

To Dave

Ya~ you better give them a box of chocolate so they can get fat.
Sure your company is doing great job. They hired someone like you who can not accept any critism or any opinion whatoever
from outsider. Isn't it ***west's 'we are happy family' philosophy?
For company side, they need your kinda people.
Now I think I am really lucky cuz I don't have to work with somebody like you. Keep on your safe CRJ landing with narrow mind. ^^

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Some people get it, some don't, and some never will.

Just blame others for your shortcomings. It's easier than facing reality.

You failed the interview. It happens. The number of foreign nationals employed by the company makes your claim doubtful. When you make a baseless accusation about a company you know little or nothing about you should expect some flak. A lot of our "new hires" are former employees returning. There are many furloughed guys from the majors in general. Now we've got that deal with Coex taking up a percentage of classes. It's highly competetive. I've ridden a van to the terminal with several well qualified white US citizens that were turned down. Their attitude was a lot different than yours. They said things like "I'm going to give it another shot in 6 months and work hard to be better prepared."

I noticed you couldn't answer my previous question - If the company really didn't want to hire you based on citizenship status why were you called back for a second interview?

Have fun in the Be-99. AMF @ BUR or OAK by any chance?

 

[freightrash]

<answer:>
The reason I was called for interview..cuz my friends helped me.
In fact I got called really late when I compared with other coworkers with lower qualifications. that tells your recruiting people called me after big consideration or hesitation.
Thanks for me for spent 2days in SLC and $s at candlewood.
Just try to understand a guy who got dumped from a girl who he loved! Pity on him. Dont corner him like you do. I hope you try to be more generous.

<question:>
Why the foreign pilot, mentioned by metrodriver, got truned down
during the training for the reason he's not US citizen?

ps. I am not working for AMF. Don't guess that from my profile.
To be honest, I am a real estate agent making $9000/mo now with freedom of schedule plus I am flying corporate kingair of the real estate company. I bet I have better quality of life than you now. Don't think only the airline pilot makes a good quality of life. I am glad that I left your kinda losers club.
Well, at least that makes me laugh ^^

let's end this clueless discussion. Have a good life Dave!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I find it amusing that yesterday your profile said Beech Airliner Captain and today it says corporate King Air. Things that make you go hmmmm.

Here's a true and funny story. Before I worked for SkyWest I worked for a 135 outfit. Many of us applied at SkyWest. For some strange reason SkyWest hired a much higher percentage of people from my domicile compared to another domicile. Pilots at that domicile griped that the company had a hidden deal with SkyWest to not hire them. Obviously SkyWest would have no interest or motivation to engage in an illegal arrangement like that yet the rumors persisted.

I don't put much stock in who gets called when for an interview. I mailed my app after some of my coworkers with more experience applied yet I got called before some of them. There's not always a lot of rhyme or reason for the order in which people get called. About a year or two ago 5 or 6 of us wrote LOR's and sent emails trying to get an extremely well qualifed friend an interview. Seemed like it took forever before he finally got the call. He had lots of 135 and 121 time yet CFI's got called before him.

 

[jayme]

I am a non-US citizen who got hired at SkyWest for the Feb 2, 2003 class. The accusation that the company discriminates is absolutely baseless.

 

[reject007]

I think you're right Jayme. There is no reason to make such accusations based on assumptions. Although, I have been waiting for my non-US citizen background check to get done and it's been over two months. If you're not familiar with this process, then I should point out that a pilot, who has no prior Large Aircraft experience, cannot attend class until the background check is done. I'll just tell you that I missed two different class dates. For some people it takes less time. The government can be extremely slow and if they keep it up this way, then I bet some employers are going to get discouraged and hire less non-US citizens, because people aren't making their class dates.

If you were in a Feb 2 class, then you must have qualified for the expedited processing, which takes even less time than a normal background check for US citizens. But I must say congratulations! If you run into Ted Duvall, tell him his old CFI student says hello and hasn't gotten anyone killed. This guy is about 8 feet tall and usually shaves his head, you can't miss him.

Sorry, folks, if I'm beating a dead horse.

 

[freightrash]

Thanks Jayme~

You give the hopes to many non-us citizen pilots in this country. Good luck on your career with skywest!
You must be 150%. 100% is not enough for non-us citizen.
I did not meet 150%. I think I had to work harder. Well, I missed
the chance. Working for skywest wasn't God's will..probably.. I take the result in humble manner now. I still thanks to my Lord.
Have a good life Jayme.